Around the League 27: Why u do dis Dolan?

[Anton Babchuk]

worst trade in thirty years

keith is completely done and blackhawks retained nothing

awful

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

But we aren’t Oilers bad, management or team wise.

Getting an extra late 1st to take on a guy that's a bit overpaid but can still play is an example of GOOD management, not bad management. It may not be as good of a management as your dream scenario of getting a top-6 addition for comparatively little, but it still is good management.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Oh I agree for the most part. Hard to take what a guy did at 33 years old and apply it to when he’s almost 60. Especially since he’s been mostly on the media sidelines since then.

I mean, maybe that Senior VP position is misleading, and he's nothing more than a glorified scout or something.

But what's his skill? What did they hire him for? It's not like he has tons of recent front office experience, or experience running a FO staff, or experience doing much of anything except saying "THE PRIDE OF MOOSE JAW" over and over.

Makes no sense to me, except hiring a Splashy Name, which is something that dumb bad owners do all the time.

I'll reserve judgement, but I'm reminded of Barry Melrose in Tampa.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

worst trade in thirty years

keith is completely done and blackhawks retained nothing

awful

It's not a great trade, but "the worst in 30 years" is hyperbole. Keith is donezo as far as playing 1st-pairing minutes are concerned. When it come to being a second-pair support guy, though, which he definitely was not doing in Chicago because their depth was garbaggio? That's to be seen.

 

[Brock Anton]

How do you acquire a 38-year old with multiple years left on his contract and manage to eat the entire cap hit?

Get McDavid and Draisaitl the hell out of that shitshow.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Absolutely incredible they ended up giving up a 3rd round pick and Chicago didn't retain any salary at all.

That's why my Tyler Johnson and a late 1st idea isn't all that crazy. Unlike Keith (at least on paper), Johnson can actually still play good hockey.

I'm not following your logic.

Keith, who "can't play" was traded FOR some assets, yet "that's why" Tyler Johson, who can play will come with a 1st round pick attached? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I'm not following your logic.

Keith, who "can't play" was traded FOR some assets, yet "that's why" Tyler Johson, who can play will come with a 1st round pick attached? That doesn't make sense to me.

There is some logic to it. It's not purely about players' raw value. Chicago isn't a truly cap-strapped team. Tampa, OTOH, is. There will therefore likely be far less of a demand around the league for taking Johnson without draft compensation. Carolina can use that situation to their advantage, if they play their cards right.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

There is some logic to it. It's not purely about players' raw value. Chicago isn't a truly cap-strapped team. Tampa, OTOH, is. There will therefore likely be far less of a demand for taking Johnson without draft compensation.

Chicago has about $5M in cap space to try and improve on the team that wasn't good enough last year and doesn't have real starting goalie. They are pretty close to a cap-strapped team if they want to compete at all.

Still, you logic in using Keith's trade to re-enforce your idea about Johnson doesn't make sense.

Bad player with high contract (Keith): Traded without retention and for positive assets.
decent player with high contract (Johnson): Will need to have a 1st round pick attached to him to be moved.

I'm not saying TB won't have to sweeten the pot to move Johnson, but you tying that notion to this Keith move really doesn't make any sense. If anything, TB would say "If Chicago can move Keith without paying someone, we shouldn't have any problem moving Johnson (or others) for value"

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Chicago has about $5M in cap space to try and improve on the team that wasn't good enough last year and doesn't have real starting goalie. They are pretty close to a cap-strapped team if they want to compete at all.

Still, you logic in using Keith's trade to re-enforce your idea about Johnson doesn't make sense.

Bad player with high contract (Keith): Traded without retention and for positive assets.
decent player with high contract (Johnson): Will need to have a 1st round pick attached to him to be moved.

I'm not saying TB won't have to sweeten the pot to move Johnson, but you tying that notion to this Keith move really doesn't make any sense. If anything, TB would say "If Chicago can move Keith without paying someone, we shouldn't have any problem moving Johnson (or others) for value"

Oh, sure, that will be the argument. The problem that Tampa has is that they're essentially over the cap ceiling right now, at this moment. That's a VERY different level of cap-strapped than the Chicago situation, especially since Chicago doesn't have major RFAs to sign.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

But what's his skill? What did they hire him for? It's not like he has tons of recent front office experience, or experience running a FO staff, or experience doing much of anything except saying "THE PRIDE OF MOOSE JAW" over and over.

I know of at least 200 hockey men that would argue this in and of itself is a skill you need in the front office.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Oh, sure, that will be the argument. The problem that Tampa has is that they're essentially over the cap ceiling right now, at this moment. That's a VERY different level of cap-strapped than the Chicago situation, especially since Chicago doesn't have major RFAs to sign.

Sure it's a different level. I just disagree on your logic that the Keith trade means that your view on Johnson now makes more sense, no matter how you try to spin it.

Again, not saying that some team won't get an asset with Johnson in a move (maybe even Seattle by picking him in the ED), just that the Keith trade doesn't mean that type of more is any more likely.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Sure it's a different level. I just disagree on your logic that the Keith trade means that your view on Johnson now makes more sense, no matter how you try to spin it.

My view on the Johnson situation is multi-faceted. I don't think there's any doubt that clubs with cap space will only take on the contract if they get draft compensation, and I don't think that the Keith deal changes that reality, since the Tampa and Chicago cap situations are different in magnitude. What I do think that the Keith deal does to the Johnson situation, however, is that it's going to significantly lower the asking price from said clubs to take the contract on. Seattle was rumored to have requested a king's ransom for such contracts (like multiple high picks and prospects), but now I can only see it happening with a true dead-weight deal like the Ladd contract. Maybe the Johnson deal will now only require a late 1st on Tampa's end to send over to Seattle, Detroit, or us, depending on who is willing to barter and which clubs TJ is willing to waive to. As a contending club, the Canes may have a distinct advantage in any trade surrounding the Tampa cap situation, since many of the players in question have NTCs and are probably only willing to waive to another contender.

 

[HisIceness]

The Edmonton Oilers make no sense to me.

 

[Buenos Necas]

I wouldn't try to extrapolate any meaning from the Keith trade to other potential contract dumps. Have we heard of any other teams who were banging down the door for Duncan Keith, let alone willing to give up an asset for no retention? I'd count this as the most extreme outlier of the "200 hockey men" brand of trades.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I wouldn't try to extrapolate any meaning from the Keith trade to other potential contract dumps. Have we heard of any other teams who were banging down the door for Duncan Keith, let alone willing to give up an asset for no retention? I'd count this as the most extreme outlier of the "200 hockey men" brand of trades.

Vancouver and Dim Jim was the other one here, so...yeah, I could see a "bidding war" there LMAO! You can bet your ass, however, that Tampa is in a better negotiating position now than an hour ago.

 

[bleedgreen]

They were going to lose Bear anyways in the draft I’d guess. Keith gets paid way less actual money than his cap hit, and he’s definitely the kind of vet they need. He can still play second or third pair. I feel like they only gave up a third. I don’t think it’s a bad deal at all. Pretty classic over exaggeration by hf.

 

[dogbazinho]

Keith deal makes me think Gardiner has a home somewhere.

 

[dogbazinho]

That's why my Tyler Johnson and a late 1st idea isn't all that crazy. Unlike Keith (at least on paper), Johnson can actually still play good hockey.

Let's try not to emulate Edmonton. Lets be the team that trades with them.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

They were going to lose Bear anyways in the draft I’d guess. Keith gets paid way less actual money than his cap hit, and he’s definitely the kind of vet they need. He can still play second or third pair. I feel like they only gave up a third. I don’t think it’s a bad deal at all. Pretty classic over exaggeration by hf.

In a vacuum, EDM didn't give up anything of real value for Keith, so it's fine from that POV and in a reduced role, he may be able to help.

That said, until/unless we know EDM's plans on getting rid of cap (Neal, Koskinen, Kassian, etc..), it's puzzling to say the least. They'll now have ~$11M in cap space to re-sign a top 4 D (Larsson), get a legit goalie, and improve their forward ranks significantly. That's the puzzling part, unless they already have other plans (expansion draft or other) to free up more cap space.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Let's try not to emulate Edmonton. Lets be the team that trades with them.

My idea isn't emulating Edmonton. It's a mini-Marleau idea except for a better player and a lower 1st round pick.

 

[hblueridgegal]

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Part of the Dougie recruitment sweepstakes?

 

[SlavinAway]

Now I can stop trying to figure out how his name is pronounced!

 

[Lempo]

Aaron Portzline reportedly lets on that Blue Jackets organization has many people including players who would be for trading Laine away.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Part of the Dougie recruitment sweepstakes?

on Twitter they're already connecting the dots..lol