Around the League - 2019/20 Season Edition #2

[BertCorbeau]

Kevyn Adams walking into his first staff meeting like:

 

[SeaOfBlue]

A purge of the level the Sabres just did is unheard of. Leafs scouting purge was also the end of 2015 (with many people still kept around, for example, Dave Morrison was shifted to pro-scouting, they kept Bergmann, John Lilley, Malarchek, Hofford was already on staff, etc). We made moves after having Hunter evaluate the staff for the entire year. Quite a few people were fired, but we kept probably 40% to 50%. The Sabres just purged their entire scouting department and it seems player development staff. This is clearly economic-based more than performance.

Got the timeline wrong. Oh well. We fired 18/24 of our scouts, which is 75% of our staff, and a bunch of guys either moved around to other positions or moved onto other organizations soon after that. At this point, only 5 scouts remain (Lilley, Malarchuk, Penny, Watt and Bergman) on top of Wes Clark (who came back in an evaluation role after a few years in Florida).

Also, do we know that their entire scouting staff is gone? Friedman just said 30 people were let go, which is about as many as the Leafs fired (if you include all of the coaches, GM's and other management areas), and Buffalo has like 18 scouts + 2 directors, and they have already fired Botterill, Taylor and will likely be firing a bunch of other managers and coaches in that 30 as well.

I mean if they do, then good for them. They are a rival and their drafting record has already been pretty spotty recently. Should not be any easier for them without scouts.

 

[Menzinger]

I can't see them being so cheap they move Eichel, unless they don't care about a full on fan revolt. I'd add Dahlin

Who else can they really cut costs with? Skinner has a full NMC and signed/accepted a trade there because he wanted to be close to home (and with a full NMC and that deal he isn't going to be very movable). Can't see anyone touching Okposo without value added. Basically leaves Risto. Plus, I doubt many NHL teams are lining up to take on contracts right now without sending salary back.

I dont think theyd move Eichel.
Moving Reinhart could save them a few million though

 

[Menzinger]

It's Leafs circa. 2014.

I don't think the Leafs really need any scouts, nor would they really be interested in many of them, but who knows.

Yeah i doubt they.

At least with the Leafs they cleared out the front office beacuse they wanted to bring better people. These moves seem to be driven by not wanting to pay guys any more salary

 

[93LEAFS]

Got the timeline wrong. Oh well. We fired 18/24 of our scouts, which is 75% of our staff, and a bunch of guys either moved around to other positions or moved onto other organizations soon after that. At this point, only 5 scouts remain (Lilley, Malarchuk, Penny, Watt and Bergman) on top of Wes Clark (who came back in an evaluation role after a few years in Florida).

Also, do we know that their entire scouting staff is gone? Friedman just said 30 people were let go, which is about as many as the Leafs fired (if you include all of the coaches, GM's and other management areas), and Buffalo has like 18 scouts + 2 directors, and they have already fired Botterill, Taylor and will likely be firing a bunch of other managers and coaches in that 30 as well.

I mean if they do, then good for them. They are a rival and their drafting record has already been pretty spotty recently. Should not be any easier for them without scouts.

The Sabres recent drafting is very hard to evaluate. Considering that they brought in a new scouting director only 2 years ago (so only 2018 and 2019 drafts), considering how few impact players and even NHLers from that draft it is almost impossible to evaluate. I'm not a big fan of Cozens, but a bunch of other people are.

What the Sabres just did is pretty much never been seen before or at least since the days of large scale hockey-ops departments. They pretty much purged everyone but the coach. When the Leafs made there moves after 2015, they quickly followed by adding a bunch of replacements. That doesn't seem to be the plan here. Apparently Sabres are losing a ton of money. Arizona purged there scouting staff under Chayka/Hofford, but the Sabres fired pretty much everyone and it doesn't look like they will be planning on refilling a bunch of these positions.

A source with knowledge of the numbers said the Sabres have been losing between $40 million and $60 million the past few seasons.

As Pegulas face business challenges, employees describe a...

It will be interesting to see what other teams do when a bunch of scouts contracts expire on June 30th.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

The Sabres recent drafting is very hard to evaluate. Considering that they brought in a new scouting director only 2 years ago (so only 2018 and 2019 drafts), considering how few impact players and even NHLers from that draft it is almost impossible to evaluate. I'm not a big fan of Cozens, but a bunch of other people are.

What the Sabres just did is pretty much never been seen before or at least since the days of large scale hockey-ops departments. They pretty much purged everyone but the coach. When the Leafs made there moves after 2015, they quickly followed by adding a bunch of replacements. That doesn't seem to be the plan here. Apparently Sabres are losing a ton of money. Arizona purged there scouting staff under Chayka/Hofford, but the Sabres fired pretty much everyone and it doesn't look like they will be planning on refilling a bunch of these positions.



As Pegulas face business challenges, employees describe a...

It will be interesting to see what other teams do when a bunch of scouts contracts expire on June 30th.

Thanks for the clarity!

Also, unless I missed something, didn't Arizona only fire a few scouts like a few years ago when Chayka first came in? Or did they fire more now... I am not really paying attention to all of the "purging" that is going on.

Just goes to show that teams are probably not going to joke around when it comes to getting fans in their seats next year... And I am sure players don't want to joke around either.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Yeah i doubt they.

At least with the Leafs they cleared out the front office beacuse they wanted to bring better people. These moves seem to be driven by not wanting to pay guys any more salary

Well I would work for them for a fair price

Seems like things can't get any worse, why not try out a rookie? Who knows, maybe I will be the next Billy Beane? Moneyball: SeaOfBlue edition.

 

[93LEAFS]

Thanks for the clarity!

Also, unless I missed something, didn't Arizona only fire a few scouts like a few years ago when Chayka first came in? Or did they fire more now... I am not really paying attention to all of the "purging" that is going on.

Just goes to show that teams are probably not going to joke around when it comes to getting fans in their seats next year... And I am sure players don't want to joke around either.

The Coyotes timeline as far as I remember is they hired Chayka, and kept Craig Button's best friend Tim Bernhardt around for awhile (fired him in summer of 2018), then hired Hofford from the Leafs as we were likely about to fire him. From there they fired a bunch of people like Jeff Twohey, and more regional guys. Then they replaced almost none of them, and then added a bunch of part-time "video-scouts" such as Hofford's kid who was playing D3 Hockey. So basically a bunch of part-time college kids. They've really pissed off a bunch of people in the scouting community with that move. So this all happened in the summer of 2018/fall 2019. People think Buffalo is going to follow down this path.

As for scouts purge, we will see what happens on the 30th when a lot of scouts contracts run out. I feel nothing is going to be even close to as extreme as this. But, I could see multiple teams letting guys go without replacements.

 

[Menzinger]

Well I would work for them for a fair price

Seems like things can't get any worse, why not try out a rookie? Who knows, maybe I will be the next Billy Beane? Moneyball: SeaOfBlue edition.

Agreed things cant get much worse for them!

Just think it would be a better situation if they were doing this out of belief in a new system or philosophy instead of cost cutting.

If the new GM hires thenright assistants things could be interesting - especially tracking how their scouting goes

 

[SeaOfBlue]

The Coyotes timeline as far as I remember is they hired Chayka, and kept Craig Button's best friend Tim Bernhardt around for awhile (fired him in summer of 2018), then hired Hofford from the Leafs as we were likely about to fire him. From there they fired a bunch of people like Jeff Twohey, and more regional guys. Then they replaced almost none of them, and then added a bunch of part-time "video-scouts" such as Hofford's kid who was playing D3 Hockey. So basically a bunch of part-time college kids. They've really pissed off a bunch of people in the scouting community with that move. So this all happened in the summer of 2018/fall 2019. People think Buffalo is going to follow down this path.

As for scouts purge, we will see what happens on the 30th when a lot of scouts contracts run out. I feel nothing is going to be even close to as extreme as this. But, I could see multiple teams letting guys go without replacements.

Maybe I should send my resume to them too then?

 

[93LEAFS]

Maybe I should send my resume to them too then?

Do you have an MBA, HBA, or getting one? Or went to Ivy Buisness school? Seems most of the people they hired were either in that network through Chayka and Jake Goldberg or were people Hofford knew. Big reason a lot of people want to see the Yotes get hammered with penalties for what they did with violating the scouting rules.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Do you have an MBA, HBA, or getting one? Or went to Ivy Buisness school? Seems most of the people they hired were either in that network through Chayka and Jake Goldberg or were people Hofford knew. Big reason a lot of people want to see the Yotes get hammered with penalties for what they did with violating the scouting rules.

Crap... Damn nepotism.

Bites me again. Oh well, my chance will come.

 

[93LEAFS]

Crap... Damn nepotism.

Yeah, its new network of people, just not the typical "old boys network" people like to harp-on. I mean, if you actually have a legitimate interest, when things open up again look into those stats and analytics conferences to network. That and through school is how a lot of those people know each other.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Agreed things cant get much worse for them!

Just think it would be a better situation if they were doing this out of belief in a new system or philosophy instead of cost cutting.

If the new GM hires thenright assistants things could be interesting - especially tracking how their scouting goes

I don't know how much longer Chayka will stick around unless Arizona sees some results within the next year or two. He spent a ton of chips on Hall and his team went from a hot streak into the abyss.

I wouldn't be surprised if eventually he jumps to another team to be head of Analytics, or just goes back to work with his sister.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Yeah, its new network of people, just not the typical "old boys network" people like to harp-on. I mean, if you actually have a legitimate interest, when things open up again look into those stats and analytics conferences to network. That and through school is how a lot of those people know each other.

It's not the right time for me anyways. I need to build a portfolio first.

Networking and contacts help, but unless you went to school with them, you need to have something you can show them (even if you have those contacts).

 

[93LEAFS]

It's not the right time for me anyways. I need to build a portfolio first.

Networking and contacts help, but unless you went to school with them, you need to have something you can show them (even if you have those contacts).

Most of them broke in with lower level part-time/intern gigs with OHL franchises. Part of the reason Arizona hired Hofford was that he hired Chayka's right-hand man Jake Goldberg to a lower level position within the Knights.

 

[zeke]

Great news for Sabre fans. That organization was rotten through and through.

They've got franchise cornerstones in place. Good management should be able to fix their problems.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Most of them broke in with lower level part-time/intern gigs with OHL franchises. Part of the reason Arizona hired Hofford was that he hired Chayka's right-hand man Jake Goldberg to a lower level position within the Knights.

Yeah I was just going to mention that the CHL is a good way to break in if you have patience.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Yeah I was just going to mention that the CHL is a good way to break in if you have patience.

CHL guys are definitely more willing to listen too. I have been shopping around a goaltending model I've been working on for a while in my spare time, and even if it hasn't led to a job yet, they have suggested ways that I could look to improve it even further, or factor in a different set of data for reason "x"

Some really good guys out there.

 

[Jozay]

Lastest 31 thoughts is a great listen.

Friedman says he thinks Botteril didnt want to give Eichel and Skinner their contracts but was overruled.

Also says someone told him the sabres will go "outside of typical hockey people".

Really sounds like the Pegulas will be making the decisions.

 

[93LEAFS]

I'm surprised more people don't see what happened for what it is. This is primarily massive cost-slashing rather than a well-developed change. They endorsed Botteril all of 3 weeks ago, and then hired a guy who has very little experience in Hockey-ops (you could legit argue none). 12 of their 15 amateur scouts had been there all of 2 drafts, one hadn't even been there for a draft. Crisp who assistant director of scouting had been there since 2017 and Forton head of college scouting had been there since 2015. I haven't seen a full list of who was turfed and the Sabres haven't updated their front office page yet, as a bunch of people we know to be fired are still listed.

 

[Menzinger]

Lastest 31 thoughts is a great listen.

Friedman says he thinks Botteril didnt want to give Eichel and Skinner their contracts but was overruled.

Also says someone told him the sabres will go "outside of typical hockey people".

Really sounds like the Pegulas will be making the decisions.

While i have little doubt thr Pegulas are seeking to influence decisions behind the scenes, not wanting to do the Eichel contract seems pretty silly.

Hes the teams best player, willing to sign for 8 years in a market that sometimes.has difficulty attracting talent. You dont penny pinch on guys like that

 

[BertCorbeau]

If the Sabres are looking at blowing it up, unloading money, and retooling their roster Colin Miller might be worth a look.

 

[kb]

If the Sabres are looking at blowing it up, unloading money, and retooling their roster Colin Miller might be worth a look.

He's been a healthy scratch on Buffalo, and was a healthy scratch in Vegas.

He'd be a healthy scratch here, too.

 

[BertCorbeau]

He's been a healthy scratch on Buffalo, and was a healthy scratch in Vegas.

He'd be a healthy scratch here, too.

Right right, he struggled last year too.

Scratch that idea