Around the League, 2018-19 Edition

[DuckDuckGetz]

Secondly, LA and SJ seems to attract more players than ANA. I don't know why but they are in the pool of more rumors. Sure, the northern east coast teams are in a different league here but ANA seems not to be a destination for UFA.

I was wondering about this myself. What would make a player more likely to go to LA/SJ over us? We've been just as good, if not better than they have in the past 2-3 years and our outlook seems similar. I wonder if the team/organization/fans have some kind of reputation among players in the league. Kind of bums me out.

Another thought I had after posting this. When reports come out that x player is interested in y team, do those reports come from the player's side or the team? Maybe we just play things closer to the chest. Seems like Murray's trades always come out of nowhere. Can't remember hearing anything about the Henrique deal and that was pretty big for both teams.

 

[The Duck Knight]

I was wondering about this myself. What would make a player more likely to go to LA/SJ over us? We've been just as good, if not better than they have in the past 2-3 years and our outlook seems similar. I wonder if the team/organization/fans have some kind of reputation among players in the league. Kind of bums me out.

Another thought I had after posting this. When reports come out that x player is interested in y team, do those reports come from the player's side or the team? Maybe we just play things closer to the chest. Seems like Murray's trades always come out of nowhere. Can't remember hearing anything about the Henrique deal and that was pretty big for both teams.

$$$$$$

Year in year out SJ/LA are cap teams. That's why they're bigger players in free agency.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

They're in the pool of rumors more, sure, but I'm not sure they do a much better job of attracting FAs. Until Kovalchuk the Kings have always struck out on July 1 and I don't think the Sharks have done much better. Sharks biggest one recently was probably Paul Martin a few years ago, and I don't even know if the Kings have had a semi-notable FA addition since Willie Mitchell.

 

[AngelDuck]

Seriously, the Kings don’t attract anyone ever basically. They won those cups by drafting well and making smart trades.

It’s the tax situation

 

[KelVarnsen]

The tax thing is real. Cali has some of the highest taxes in the country and it hurts the Cali team’s a lot.

Why come here and lose a lot more money when you can go to another state and pay significantly lower taxes?

 

[GreatBear]

The tax thing is real. Cali has some of the highest taxes in the country and it hurts the Cali team’s a lot.

Why come here and lose a lot more money when you can go to another state and pay significantly lower taxes?

If this were a major factor all of the players would try to sign in Dallas, Florida, Tampa Bay, Las Vegas or Nashville. And yet free agents regular sign in other cities in states with relatively high taxes. While I agree that California taxes may be a factor, I am not certain that it is that important.

 

[KelVarnsen]

Of course It’s not the only factor but it has to weigh on the minds of guys when they stand to lose a significant amount of money to taxes. They talk about it other sports all the time because the Cali teams normally have to bid a higher amount due to the tax issues.

 

[GreatBear]

Out of curiosity I looked up articles on the relative tax burdens, by state. California is not nearly as high in total tax burden as I expected. According to CNBC California had the 10th highest tax burden. Other states with teams with higher burdens were New Jersey (9th), Illinois (8th), Minnesota (5th) and New York (1st)
The 15 US states where taxes take the most out of your paycheck

If we look at Forbes, using 2016 tax rates, the numbers are not that different, with New York still the highest with a composite 12.7% tax rate. California is listed as sixth highest with an 11.0% composite rate. If we go down to North Carolina, listed as having the 19th highest tax burden, the composite rate is 9.8%. What is interesting to me is that these rates are not materially different, so that in my opinion the difference in tax burden by city/state is probably not a significant factor as compared to salary and term of years, the likelihood of team success, other players, coaching staff, and the general living environment.
Tax Burden State By State - pg.1

It is very difficult to find comparisons of total Canadian tax rates by province comparable to the articles on total tax burden by U.S. state. As a result I cannot draw any conclusions on whether the tax burden, by city, in Canada would be a significant factor in any player's decision on whether to accept a contract in those cities. It is also not an apples to apples comparison. In Canada there is a 5% nationwide sales and service tax, which does not exist in the United States, but which impacts the total tax burden on a player. There are provincial sales taxes on top of this 5%, with Quebec having the highest total sales tax in Canada at a combined 15%. Not surprisingly there are voices in both countries that taxes are lower in the other country. But then the services provided by the government in both countries are different.
Canadians may pay more taxes than Americans, but here's what they get for their money

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

The recently passed new federal tax law actually puts a big hit on high income earners from high tax states like CA and NY to name two. The federal deduction for state taxes is now capped at $10,000. It will definitely make an additional dent on people making UFA money.

 

[Paul4587]

Ugh, I predicted JT would go to SJ a year ago if he left NYI, and I think that's likely. I really hope he signs with NYI and stays the **** away from the West. If he leaves, I hope he goes to Tampa. Not surprised he ruled out Montreal already. I saw that coming a mile away.

I’ve got a feeling he ends up a Leaf, Dubas seems so intent on making it work and they have all the cap space this year to offer him a max deal before extending him 8 years in January. Which I would absolutely hate. I think I would rather see him in SJ to be honest, that’s how much Toronto media and Leafs fans annoy me.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I’ve got a feeling he ends up a Leaf, Dubas seems so intent on making it work and they have all the cap space this year to offer him a max deal before extending him 8 years in January. Which I would absolutely hate. I think I would rather see him in SJ to be honest, that’s how much Toronto media and Leafs fans annoy me.

They can only extend him 7 years in January.

 

[Paul4587]

They can only extend him 7 years in January.

Is that a rule if a guy signs a one year deal they can only be extended 7? That makes sense, I just wasn’t aware of it.

 

[BigKing]

The Kings do not have a history of being active or winners in free agency. Their "big gets" have primarily been ex-Kings coming back at the end of their careers (Blake/Robitaille). They landed Kovalchuk because they offered the 3rd year.

I do feel the Kings are more active than the Ducks when it comes to "big" trades, but having the flexibility to spend up to the cap goes a long way towards that fact. This is fortunate for me since I feel the Ducks trying to fix 2C at the 2014 trade deadline could have led to a different outcome that season.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Is that a rule if a guy signs a one year deal they can only be extended 7? That makes sense, I just wasn’t aware of it.

My understanding ( I could be wrong ) is that January is the earliest he can re-sign, but in order to get an 8 year deal you have to have been on the roster at the last trade deadline. I read that somewhere so take it for what it's worth.

 

[pbgoalie]

Out of curiosity I looked up articles on the relative tax burdens, by state. California is not nearly as high in total tax burden as I expected. According to CNBC California had the 10th highest tax burden. Other states with teams with higher burdens were New Jersey (9th), Illinois (8th), Minnesota (5th) and New York (1st)
The 15 US states where taxes take the most out of your paycheck

If we look at Forbes, using 2016 tax rates, the numbers are not that different, with New York still the highest with a composite 12.7% tax rate. California is listed as sixth highest with an 11.0% composite rate. If we go down to North Carolina, listed as having the 19th highest tax burden, the composite rate is 9.8%. What is interesting to me is that these rates are not materially different, so that in my opinion the difference in tax burden by city/state is probably not a significant factor as compared to salary and term of years, the likelihood of team success, other players, coaching staff, and the general living environment.
Tax Burden State By State - pg.1

It is very difficult to find comparisons of total Canadian tax rates by province comparable to the articles on total tax burden by U.S. state. As a result I cannot draw any conclusions on whether the tax burden, by city, in Canada would be a significant factor in any player's decision on whether to accept a contract in those cities. It is also not an apples to apples comparison. In Canada there is a 5% nationwide sales and service tax, which does not exist in the United States, but which impacts the total tax burden on a player. There are provincial sales taxes on top of this 5%, with Quebec having the highest total sales tax in Canada at a combined 15%. Not surprisingly there are voices in both countries that taxes are lower in the other country. But then the services provided by the government in both countries are different.
Canadians may pay more taxes than Americans, but here's what they get for their money

Californias highest tax rate (over 1 million in earnings) is 13.3%
Also the highest state sales tax I believe. Cost of living is enormous too

 

[Paul4587]

My understanding ( I could be wrong ) is that January is the earliest he can re-sign, but in order to get an 8 year deal you have to have been on the roster at the last trade deadline. I read that somewhere so take it for what it's worth.

I think you’re right, otherwise any team could swoop in and offer the 1 year deal and an 8 year extension in January essentially giving FAs a 9 year deal and matching any advantage the exisiting team who has the player has.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I think you’re right, otherwise any team could swoop in and offer the 1 year deal and an 8 year extension in January essentially giving FAs a 9 year deal and matching any advantage the exisiting team who has the player has.

Well, I know for sure that July 1 ufas can only get 8 years if they were on the roster at the last TDL. So it would make sense that the requirement wouldn’t go away for a newly signed ufa because as you said, it would be a way to circumvent the 8 year max per the cba.

But presumably once the next TDL passes, he could sign for 8 years.

 

[mightyquack]

Are taxes done at both a federal and state level in America? 13.3% on its own doesn't seem very high (without knowing other states in America's level obviously) compared to Australia where our highest tax bracket can go up to around 44%).

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Are taxes done at both a federal and state level in America? 13.3% on its own doesn't seem very high (without knowing other states in America's level obviously) compared to Australia where our highest tax bracket can go up to around 44%).

Income taxes are paid to both federal and state governments (some states, like Florida, have zero). Federal income taxes are capped at around 37% I think after the last bit of tax idiocy. Most NHL players aren't in that top bracket, but the top earners are. The feds will give you a break on your federal income taxes to the extent you are also taxed by your state, but that break is capped at ten grand.

 

[mightyquack]

Income taxes are paid to both federal and state governments (some states, like Florida, have zero). Federal income taxes are capped at around 37% I think after the last bit of tax idiocy. Most NHL players aren't in that top bracket, but the top earners are. The feds will give you a break on your federal income taxes to the extent you are also taxed by your state, but that break is capped at ten grand.

Cheers Boogernaut. An interesting, but very weird tax system to me...or maybe Australia is the weird one ha. Certainly explains why the 'lesser' free agents aren't too keen to play in California too, as they would lose a ton of money in tax in their only chance to cash in big.

 

[duxfan1101]

Cheers Boogernaut. An interesting, but very weird tax system to me...or maybe Australia is the weird one ha. Certainly explains why the 'lesser' free agents aren't too keen to play in California too, as they would lose a ton of money in tax in their only chance to cash in big.

It should also be noted that you are taxed based on where you play your games. In other words, if you play 5 games in Florida, the pay attributed to those games is taxed at Florida's state rates. Obviously you will play the majority of your games in your home state, so that state is paramount in the tax calculations.
Here is a Forbes' article on how complex the system is for athletes:
Income Taxes For Pro Athletes Are Reminder Of How Complicated U.S. Tax Code Is

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Are taxes done at both a federal and state level in America? 13.3% on its own doesn't seem very high (without knowing other states in America's level obviously) compared to Australia where our highest tax bracket can go up to around 44%).

The recently passed new federal tax law actually puts a big hit on high income earners from high tax states like CA and NY to name two. The federal deduction for state taxes is now capped at $10,000. It will definitely make an additional dent on people making UFA money.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Awesome to finally see Willie O'Ree make the HOF. Way to go Willie!

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I’ve got a feeling he ends up a Leaf, Dubas seems so intent on making it work and they have all the cap space this year to offer him a max deal before extending him 8 years in January. Which I would absolutely hate. I think I would rather see him in SJ to be honest, that’s how much Toronto media and Leafs fans annoy me.

I don't know if they'd extend him, I don't even know if they can make it work with him long-term(and that kind of extension would receive a ton of scrutiny and probably cost the Leafs), but I absolutely could see him go there next year regardless. It makes sense on a number of levels but it also might be the way to get him the most money now, given Dubas is almost certainly open to a sign-and-trade whereas Lou definitely isn't. Play for the Leafs for a year for $15 million, compete for a cup, and then end up wherever he wants on a bigger deal than he would've signed this summer.

Honestly I'd have to respect it. I like when guys get on themselves.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

It should also be noted that you are taxed based on where you play your games. In other words, if you play 5 games in Florida, the pay attributed to those games is taxed at Florida's state rates. Obviously you will play the majority of your games in your home state, so that state is paramount in the tax calculations.
Here is a Forbes' article on how complex the system is for athletes:
Income Taxes For Pro Athletes Are Reminder Of How Complicated U.S. Tax Code Is

That article covers it a bit, in sort of incoherent fashion, but it's worth noting that your home state can tax every cent of your income regardless of where you earn it, even if another state can and does tax it as well. Most states do have some built in tax breaks for taxes paid on income earned in another state, but that's not a thing they have to do, and the breaks are often incomplete. It's not just athletes, people here in Omaha often drive the few miles to work across the river in Iowa, meaning they'll probably be double taxed on at least some of their income before the fed gets its bite, too.