News Article: Army on the Offseason

[Majorityof1]

Given Armys contract extention, I dont see a brutal panick move. At least not in terms of top prospects. I could see a scenario where he moves multiple 1sts again. With the prospect depth though, it wouldn't be a brutal move

If we go into this season having made no roster moves, barring a huge step-up from Thomas, Fabbri and Thomspon/Kyrou, we are in trouble. If we make no moves and start the season with 30-40 points over the first 42 games, he will be on the hot seast regardless of contract. Even if job security is not at issue, I think he wants to win. A super poor start could cause him to make a bad trade. Every time he has telegraphed what he was trying to do, he had to wait on a good offer until he had to make a move and ended with a poor return (Oshie, Shattenkirk, Miller). Maybe those situations are different, but its happened several times. When deals come out of no where, the return ends up better.

 

[Majorityof1]

If Kyrou wins the Calder I will kill and eat a raccoon.

Wouldn't be upset if Kyrou is traded for an upgrade at RW or C. Agreed that trading him for a pure LWer wouldn't be smart, but I think some folks are starting to overrate Kyrou. Hopefully he makes a successful transition to the pro game next season (in either the AHL or NHL) and continues to have a long career in Saint Louis. I do have doubts about his skills, other than his skating, translating well. We shall see.

Why a racoon? What did the cute little trash panda ever do to you? You sir, are a monster....

"Please don't eat me" - terrified trash panda.

 

[Thallis]

If Kyrou wins the Calder I will kill and eat a raccoon.

Wouldn't be upset if Kyrou is traded for an upgrade at RW or C. Agreed that trading him for a pure LWer wouldn't be smart, but I think some folks are starting to overrate Kyrou. Hopefully he makes a successful transition to the pro game next season (in either the AHL or NHL) and continues to have a long career in Saint Louis. I do have doubts about his skills, other than his skating, translating well. We shall see.

People like Kyrou not just because of his junior production, but also because we severely lack great skaters like him.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

I've seen this mentioned a few times about Kyrou. People are reading way too far into that as a negative. Chicago wasn't about to insert a new player into their line-up in the midst of the postseason. Kyrou was assigned to Chicago around April 19, 2018. The AHL regular season was a wrap at that point. Chicago was swept 0-3 in the first round against Rockford losing 2-1, 5-2, 4-3. Sure Kyrou didn't see the ice after being assigned but there were only a total of 3 games played all in the postseason.

Entering 17-18, I could see the Blues having Thompson ranked ahead of Kyrou. However, after the monster year Kyrou just had, both in the OHL and at the WJC, the Blues may have them ranked differently now. Reviewing Thompson's 17-18 does provide a cautionary tale for us fans though. Expecting Thomas, Kyrou or any of these kids to be difference makers next year is no guarantee, particularly if they are relegated to 3rd and 4th line duty.

From an obscure interview, both Kyrou and Thomas were considered for the Blues this last year. I wouldn't read a thing into the AHL situation as an indicator to his readiness. TC will be his opportunity. Same as it was for Walman and Dunn. Few had Dunn ahead of Walman, especially after Walman's Traverse city performance....

I wasn’t trying to imply that not playing any AHL games didn’t mean Kyrou is/isn’t ready. I simply meant that he did not get a chance to showcase his game against a tougher league. Had he gotten playing time, it would’ve given us a chance to see his readiness prior to camp.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

Why a racoon? What did the cute little trash panda ever do to you? You sir, are a monster....

"Please don't eat me" - terrified trash panda.

That looks more like a rabbit to me.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

If Kyrou wins the Calder I will kill and eat a raccoon.

Wouldn't be upset if Kyrou is traded for an upgrade at RW or C. Agreed that trading him for a pure LWer wouldn't be smart, but I think some folks are starting to overrate Kyrou. Hopefully he makes a successful transition to the pro game next season (in either the AHL or NHL) and continues to have a long career in Saint Louis. I do have doubts about his skills, other than his skating, translating well. We shall see.

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Kyrou could win the Calder. Will he be as touted as Dahlin or Thomas, no, but if you put him in the right position to succeed here, or on another team, it's absolutely possible he could win the Calder. What skills do you not see translating? Please don't compare him to Rattie, as that debate has been shown as apples and oranges. Rattie could shoot but that was it.

 

[Dbrownss]

I wasn’t trying to imply that not playing any AHL games didn’t mean Kyrou is/isn’t ready. I simply meant that he did not get a chance to showcase his game against a tougher league. Had he gotten playing time, it would’ve given us a chance to see his readiness prior to camp.

My bad, I've just gone round and round with a poster over that issue. I thought he looked solid in the preseason.

 

[Dbrownss]

If we go into this season having made no roster moves, barring a huge step-up from Thomas, Fabbri and Thomspon/Kyrou, we are in trouble. If we make no moves and start the season with 30-40 points over the first 42 games, he will be on the hot seast regardless of contract. Even if job security is not at issue, I think he wants to win. A super poor start could cause him to make a bad trade. Every time he has telegraphed what he was trying to do, he had to wait on a good offer until he had to make a move and ended with a poor return (Oshie, Shattenkirk, Miller). Maybe those situations are different, but its happened several times. When deals come out of no where, the return ends up better.

There is always a scenario where he does panic, but I'm confident ownership has a long term outlook

 

[Majorityof1]

There is always a scenario where he does panic, but I'm confident ownership has a long term outlook

Well I did say its the worst case or nightmare scenario. And I wasn't implying he will entirely mortgage the future, just make a bad trade for a piece that's not a good fit.

 

[stl76]

Why a racoon? What did the cute little trash panda ever do to you? You sir, are a monster....

"Please don't eat me" - terrified trash panda.

Because raccoons are delicious.

People like Kyrou not just because of his junior production, but also because we severely lack great skaters like him.

I think a lot of folks see his junior/WJC stats and hear about his skating and think he's exactly what the Blues need. Kyrou's skating is excellent and could the Blues use more excellent skaters? Of course! But there is a lot about Kyrou's game that I am worried might not translate well to the next level.

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Kyrou could win the Calder. Will he be as touted as Dahlin or Thomas, no, but if you put him in the right position to succeed here, or on another team, it's absolutely possible he could win the Calder. What skills do you not see translating? Please don't compare him to Rattie, as that debate has been shown as apples and oranges. Rattie could shoot but that was it.

If Kyrou had Rattie's shot I would be a lot less worried. His shot is not terrible, but I wouldn't say it's a strength. His release isn't particularly quick or deception, and while his wrist shot is accurate, it is not particularly powerful. No one-timer to speak of really (certainly not a consistent threat for a one-timer). Overall his shot is merely OK and I am not sure he will be able to consistently beat NHL goalies from a distance.

As things stand currently, I watch Kyrou film and I see a 19 year old in the OHL make plays that he simply wont be able to make in the AHL, much less NHL. I don't think he is going to be able to consistently beat professional defenders wide or carry the puck with speed through NHL teams set up in the neutral zone like he does in junior. I worry about him being strong enough to handle professional defenders on the boards and in the corners. I worry that his speed will be negated to some extent and that he may struggle to adjust to the lack of space/time, the increase in physicality, and the more structured defensive systems in higher leagues. His puck handling is good-to-great, but I worry that he won't be able to control the puck like he does in junior against bigger/stronger/faster professional dmen. It concerns me a bit that a significant portion of Kyrou's points came on the PP. Scoring a lot on the PP, in and of itself, is not necessarily a bad thing. But I don't think it's likely he is going to be given significant PP time as a rookie in the NHL, maybe not in the AHL either. His defensive game needs a lot of work to be NHL caliber.

Kyrou's vision/passing and his skating are probably his greatest attributes and most translatable skills. Who knows, those attributes may be good enough to overcome some of these obstacles, and he absolutely can improve on his shot/strength/defensive game/etc. But I've seen several lineups posted with Kyrou on the top line to start the season...that seems very unlikely to me, and really a disservice to the kid to put those kind of expectations on him. I would be genuinely stunned if Kyrou won the Calder, here or anywhere else.

 

[BleedBlue14]

If Kyrou wins the Calder I will kill and eat a raccoon.

Wouldn't be upset if Kyrou is traded for an upgrade at RW or C. Agreed that trading him for a pure LWer wouldn't be smart, but I think some folks are starting to overrate Kyrou. Hopefully he makes a successful transition to the pro game next season (in either the AHL or NHL) and continues to have a long career in Saint Louis. I do have doubts about his skills, other than his skating, translating well. We shall see.

Was more of a hypothetical scenario. Hell as far as we know Toropchenko could win the Calder. It was more of a nightmare scenario of us trading him and a first for something we don't need and then watching him get a full time job in the NHL and winning the Calder. IT wasn't me saying he's going to win the Calder. I get that for Every Matthew Barzal and Connor McDavid level skaters, there are Micheal Grabners and Athanasious. That being said the latter from the right side doesn't necessarily seem to be the worst thing in the world. It's not like we have a pure speed skater out there, the kid knows how to play hockey. A lot of the issues that I see about complaining about how his moves that are pinpointed (example WJC) wont work against pros is this is a highlight, that is not how he scored all of his goals. I have watched a pretty extensive amount of video of him ( generally because I'm really excited about speed actually being implemented into the lineup aside from Schwartz) and the kid actually goes around the net and didn't back down. Granted again verse Junior players. The main thing that I'm scared of is that the rest of our team outside of Schwartz/Schenn/Tarasenko are not able to play a fast enough game for him to be successful whatsoever. We reaaaallly need to unload a few of the sloths or at least implement some fresher legs into the lineup in the near future.

 

[Dbrownss]

Because raccoons are delicious.


I think a lot of folks see his junior/WJC stats and hear about his skating and think he's exactly what the Blues need. Kyrou's skating is excellent and could the Blues use more excellent skaters? Of course! But there is a lot about Kyrou's game that I am worried might not translate well to the next level.


If Kyrou had Rattie's shot I would be a lot less worried. His shot is not terrible, but I wouldn't say it's a strength. His release isn't particularly quick or deception, and while his wrist shot is accurate, it is not particularly powerful. No one-timer to speak of really (certainly not a consistent threat for a one-timer). Overall his shot is merely OK and I am not sure he will be able to consistently beat NHL goalies from a distance.

As things stand currently, I watch Kyrou film and I see a 19 year old in the OHL make plays that he simply wont be able to make in the AHL, much less NHL. I don't think he is going to be able to consistently beat professional defenders wide or carry the puck with speed through NHL teams set up in the neutral zone like he does in junior. I worry about him being strong enough to handle professional defenders on the boards and in the corners. I worry that his speed will be negated to some extent and that he may struggle to adjust to the lack of space/time, the increase in physicality, and the more structured defensive systems in higher leagues. His puck handling is good-to-great, but I worry that he won't be able to control the puck like he does in junior against bigger/stronger/faster professional dmen. It concerns me a bit that a significant portion of Kyrou's points came on the PP. Scoring a lot on the PP, in and of itself, is not necessarily a bad thing. But I don't think it's likely he is going to be given significant PP time as a rookie in the NHL, maybe not in the AHL either. His defensive game needs a lot of work to be NHL caliber.

Kyrou's vision/passing and his skating are probably his greatest attributes and most translatable skills. Who knows, those attributes may be good enough to overcome some of these obstacles, and he absolutely can improve on his shot/strength/defensive game/etc. But I've seen several lineups posted with Kyrou on the top line to start the season...that seems very unlikely to me, and really a disservice to the kid to put those kind of expectations on him. I would be genuinely stunned if Kyrou won the Calder, here or anywhere else.

Kyrou will be similar to Gaudreau in how his skills will translate. No hes not going to pull some of the in tight between defenders legs but hes absolutely capable of simplifying his game to the pro level. Hes doing what he does against kids because he can. WJC was a testiment to this outside of his one move against Lativa or whatever team it was.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Kyrou will be similar to Gaudreau in how his skills will translate. No hes not going to pull some of the in tight between defenders legs but hes absolutely capable of simplifying his game to the pro level. Hes doing what he does against kids because he can. WJC was a testiment to this outside of his one move against Lativa or whatever team it was.

To piggy back on to this I think @stl76 you are putting a bit too much of emphasis on his major highlight reel plays from Juniors as opposed to looking at the full body of work. The speed game works right now in the NHL. Look how big of an impact someone like Barzal as a rookie had. I am not saying that Kyrou will have that sort of an impact, but he is a damn good skater who can open the ice up like a Barzal/McDavid/Athanasiou etc. etc. I also think to your comment a bit earlier about pegging him into the first line it mainly has to do with linemates and who his skills would compliment/who's skills would compliment his game. One thing I surely know is if I ever see a line of two of Berglund/Jaskin/Sobotka/Sanford/Brodziak bottom 6 type players stuck on a line with Kyrou I will be much more concerned about the expectations on him than I would if he were with Schenn and Schwartz.

 

[Brian39]

I have very little concern about Army trading Kyrou and the 1st for a LW we don't need. I get that Steen has become public enemy #1 for a lot of people, but Army loves him. If we trade Kyrou instead of Fabbri, the organization is going to give Fabbri a chance to ease back into the NHL as a top 9 LW instead of asking him to change positions. Schenn and Schwartz aren't getting broken up. Given the way Army views the players on this roster, it would make zero sense for him to trade a 1st and top 3 prospect to fill a redundancy. He wasn't willing to pay the price for Hoffman at the TDL, so there is no reason to believe that he would suddenly pay a 1st and Kyrou for him at the draft.

I also have very little concern about Army missing on everything he tries to do. He might end up overpaying for someone, but there is basically zero chance that he just stands pat all summer. We have too much cap space and too many expendable futures assets for nothing to happen. We may or may not like the trade/signing/combo, but there is no reason to worry that the opening night roster will just be last year's final roster plus Fabbri and rookies.

As a comment on the article, it may as well have started with "Dear Mr. Tavares." Army generally isn't this candid and it is obvious to me that he did this article as part of a sales pitch to Tavares and other UFAs. He wants it known that we will make competitive offers and are looking to win and not rebuild.

 

[Majorityof1]

I have very little concern about Army trading Kyrou and the 1st for a LW we don't need. I get that Steen has become public enemy #1 for a lot of people, but Army loves him. If we trade Kyrou instead of Fabbri, the organization is going to give Fabbri a chance to ease back into the NHL as a top 9 LW instead of asking him to change positions. Schenn and Schwartz aren't getting broken up. Given the way Army views the players on this roster, it would make zero sense for him to trade a 1st and top 3 prospect to fill a redundancy. He wasn't willing to pay the price for Hoffman at the TDL, so there is no reason to believe that he would suddenly pay a 1st and Kyrou for him at the draft.

I also have very little concern about Army missing on everything he tries to do. He might end up overpaying for someone, but there is basically zero chance that he just stands pat all summer. We have too much cap space and too many expendable futures assets for nothing to happen. We may or may not like the trade/signing/combo, but there is no reason to worry that the opening night roster will just be last year's final roster plus Fabbri and rookies.

As a comment on the article, it may as well have started with "Dear Mr. Tavares." Army generally isn't this candid and it is obvious to me that he did this article as part of a sales pitch to Tavares and other UFAs. He wants it known that we will make competitive offers and are looking to win and not rebuild.

Trading for a LW - He did mention Steen and Fabbri as C candidates if we miss out on getting one. So in his mind, he may look at getting a LW as the next best thing to a C, as he can slide one over. The two targets he was rumored to have been in discussions about were Hoffman and Patches. We had Steen then, and it didn't stop him from kicking the tires on those guys. You seem to have more faith in Army than I do. After-all, he built the roster with all of these redundancies.

Striking out - It wouldn't be the first time. In 2013, we missed on everyone we wanted and ended up with Derrick Roy. That to me is completely missing out. Free agents don't flock to St. Louis. The only big name free agent we have signed that did not play here before is Stastny who grew up here. If Army is reluctant to trade more than a first, he isn't getting anyone in trade. Not getting a good deal, deciding to wait for free agency, and striking out there is an absolutely realistic outcome. Likely, maybe not. But absolutely a possibility. If we start trying to make a trade after striking out at the draft and in free agency, the prices will suddenly go way, way up.

 

[BluesTraveller]

From article: "We have a late first-round pick this year (No. 26)"

That is supposed to be No. 29, correct?

 

[BleedBlue14]

I have very little concern about Army trading Kyrou and the 1st for a LW we don't need. I get that Steen has become public enemy #1 for a lot of people, but Army loves him. If we trade Kyrou instead of Fabbri, the organization is going to give Fabbri a chance to ease back into the NHL as a top 9 LW instead of asking him to change positions. Schenn and Schwartz aren't getting broken up. Given the way Army views the players on this roster, it would make zero sense for him to trade a 1st and top 3 prospect to fill a redundancy. He wasn't willing to pay the price for Hoffman at the TDL, so there is no reason to believe that he would suddenly pay a 1st and Kyrou for him at the draft.

I also have very little concern about Army missing on everything he tries to do. He might end up overpaying for someone, but there is basically zero chance that he just stands pat all summer. We have too much cap space and too many expendable futures assets for nothing to happen. We may or may not like the trade/signing/combo, but there is no reason to worry that the opening night roster will just be last year's final roster plus Fabbri and rookies.

As a comment on the article, it may as well have started with "Dear Mr. Tavares." Army generally isn't this candid and it is obvious to me that he did this article as part of a sales pitch to Tavares and other UFAs. He wants it known that we will make competitive offers and are looking to win and not rebuild.

Agreed on the second part of this. The scary part for me is I haven't seen him in a position after missing the playoffs like this year and knowing that he desperately needs an upgrade to compete. Luckily Bergevin is Bergevin. I don't really know in terms of how Dorion is in trades, but seeing as how Sakic completely worked him over for Duchene I would imagine he'd want a pretty decent return for Hoffman. If push comes to shove and we (likely) aren't in Tavares' plans, aren't in Stastny's plans (wouldn't be the worst thing, we know how that story unfolds) and aren't in Thornton's plans for a 1 year deal. What exactly are we left with? Are we okay with running Schenn- Bozak- Thomas - Brodziak down the middle? Better question is Armstrong?

What's the next option? he talked about Schwartz and Steen being Centers before. I would be completely shocked if Schwartz is taken away from Schenn. That being said does it look better to run a line of Hoffman/Patches/Skinner - Steen - Tarasenko or something along those lines. That could be an even more legitimate possibility if we also miss out on Bozak. So then what does it take to get one of those guys? Say one is traded for a decent return, well that just ups the ante needed for the next (presumably). Do we trade Thompson when he's a possible center with the gap we will have at center? Or do we trade Kyrou? I don't know I'm just actually scared that he will make a knee jerk reaction and overpay for someone that plays left wing just because we are running out of options and ownership has given him their graces to spend to the cap to make this team competitive. The one shining light in all of this is that JVR is a free agent as well so hopefully that is the alternative before shipping off Kyrou and a first for a left wing.

 

[Brian39]

Trading for a LW - He did mention Steen and Fabbri as C candidates if we miss out on getting one. So in his mind, he may look at getting a LW as the next best thing to a C, as he can slide one over. The two targets he was rumored to have been in discussions about were Hoffman and Patches. We had Steen then, and it didn't stop him from kicking the tires on those guys. You seem to have more faith in Army than I do. After-all, he built the roster with all of these redundancies.

Striking out - It wouldn't be the first time. In 2013, we missed on everyone we wanted and ended up with Derrick Roy. That to me is completely missing out. Free agents don't flock to St. Louis. The only big name free agent we have signed that did not play here before is Stastny who grew up here. If Army is reluctant to trade more than a first, he isn't getting anyone in trade. Not getting a good deal, deciding to wait for free agency, and striking out there is an absolutely realistic outcome. Likely, maybe not. But absolutely a possibility. If we start trying to make a trade after striking out at the draft and in free agency, the prices will suddenly go way, way up.

My point is that we kicked the tires on Hoffman but weren't willing to give up a high value prospect on top of the 1st at the TDL. I can't think of a single reason we would be willing to pay that price now. At the TDL, bringing in Hoffman or Patches would have helped the playoff push that season and would have filled a hole for a few months when we didn't have Fabbri. 4 months later, you're talking about getting 2 playoff pushes out of Hoffman instead of 3, Kyrou's value has increased or remained the same, and Fabbri's return means there is less room at LW. I don't see any reason why Army would suddenly be willing to pay what he wasn't willing to in February. I don't think that trading for a LW is off the table, but I don't see any reason to think that we will expend all of our top assets to do it.

Roy was certainly a consolation prize, but he was coming off a 55 point pace season in the lockout shortened year and had 44 points the year prior. That type of consolation prize would be an upgrade over the state of our middle 6 at the end of the season last year. We also didn't have a bunch of excess assets to trade in the summer of 2013. We had already traded our 1st round pick for the 2013 draft and the prospect pool was thin. Trading the 2014 1st would have meant picking outside the 1st round in 3 out of 4 drafts, which wasn't going to happen. Schwartz and Tarasenko were just coming off their rookie years and there didn't seem to be any desire to trade either of them (thankfully). Parayko and Ed were still largely unknown quantities, Rattie/Jaskin didn't have nearly the value of Thomas/Kyrou and Schmaltz was basically our only other good prospect at that point. Simply put, we didn't have the resources to trade for a top 6 player without giving up a valuable roster player. We have an abundance of futures that can be used this summer. Even if we strike out in free agency, we have way, way more ability to make a trade. Again, we might not get the value or the player(s) we want, but there is almost no chance that no one is brought in from outside the organization.

 

[Itsnotatrap]

Ottawa is in a very odd spot here. They are vulnerable to be exploited to a degree, in that they may be the ones that take a little bit less in futures, and take a hybrid futures/help now package with a marginal contract that can help immediately but may suck on the back end, because their pick is going to Colorado. Their Duchene gambit has them in a very bad spot.

Not necessarily related to Hoffman, but just in general when dealing with them in the next month. Their incentives are perverted, and that can present opportunities.

Oh yeah-further complicated by concerns about ownership and fundamentals like being able to make payroll. Anyway, Ottawa is a total wildcard this next month.

 

[stl76]

Was more of a hypothetical scenario. Hell as far as we know Toropchenko could win the Calder. It was more of a nightmare scenario of us trading him and a first for something we don't need and then watching him get a full time job in the NHL and winning the Calder. IT wasn't me saying he's going to win the Calder. I get that for Every Matthew Barzal and Connor McDavid level skaters, there are Micheal Grabners and Athanasious. That being said the latter from the right side doesn't necessarily seem to be the worst thing in the world. It's not like we have a pure speed skater out there, the kid knows how to play hockey. A lot of the issues that I see about complaining about how his moves that are pinpointed (example WJC) wont work against pros is this is a highlight, that is not how he scored all of his goals. I have watched a pretty extensive amount of video of him ( generally because I'm really excited about speed actually being implemented into the lineup aside from Schwartz) and the kid actually goes around the net and didn't back down. Granted again verse Junior players. The main thing that I'm scared of is that the rest of our team outside of Schwartz/Schenn/Tarasenko are not able to play a fast enough game for him to be successful whatsoever. We reaaaallly need to unload a few of the sloths or at least implement some fresher legs into the lineup in the near future.

For sure, I didn't think you were saying it was likely Kyrou would be traded then win the calder. It was clear that you were not 100% serious about that scenario, as I hope it was clear I won't actually kill and eat a raccoon (sorry Majorityof1).

From the video I have watched of Kyrou, I really don't think he is the type of player to truly attack and drive to the net consistently. He definitely scored some goals in close...but it's not like he's usually engaging/challenging defenders and winning physical battles in front of the net in order to scoring goals in the dirty areas.

I think the majority of offense that Kyrou generates comes in 1 of 2 ways. 1) using his speed off the rush and 2) utilizing time and space (often on the PP or created by his skating ability) to get well placed shots from the slot or nifty passes to open teammates.

To piggy back on to this I think @stl76 you are putting a bit too much of emphasis on his major highlight reel plays from Juniors as opposed to looking at the full body of work. The speed game works right now in the NHL. Look how big of an impact someone like Barzal as a rookie had. I am not saying that Kyrou will have that sort of an impact, but he is a damn good skater who can open the ice up like a Barzal/McDavid/Athanasiou etc. etc. I also think to your comment a bit earlier about pegging him into the first line it mainly has to do with linemates and who his skills would compliment/who's skills would compliment his game. One thing I surely know is if I ever see a line of two of Berglund/Jaskin/Sobotka/Sanford/Brodziak bottom 6 type players stuck on a line with Kyrou I will be much more concerned about the expectations on him than I would if he were with Schenn and Schwartz.

I want to be clear here, my opinion about Kyrou is not solely based on that highlight reel goal he had in the WJC (not saying you're saying that...just want to be clear).

Agreed that currently the NHL is moving more towards speed, and that watching the parade of lesser wingers play with Schwartz - Schenn was frustrating. I guess I just want to temper expectations a bit. The things that I think made Kyrou so effective in junior, particularly creating time and space his speed or utilizing time and space on the PP, may not translate immediately to the NHL. Even in the AHL with his speed and skating, there is going to be a LOT less time/space for him to work with. It's not just that the opponents will be bigger/faster/stronger (tho they will be). It's that the defensive structure is much tighter in the AHL or NHL, which I worry may negate some of his skating ability.

Maybe his skating and other skills are enough to overcome the hurdles he faces, that is totally possible. There are definitely players (like McDavid/Barzal/etc) that can still carry the puck end to end and/or use their speed to back off defenders and create time/space. Not sure Kyrou is quite on that level, but regardless I don't think it's reasonable to expect Kyrou to step onto a top line in the NHL and receive significant PP time as a rookie...and if he wins the calder I will happily kill and eat a raccoon.

Kyrou will be similar to Gaudreau in how his skills will translate. No hes not going to pull some of the in tight between defenders legs but hes absolutely capable of simplifying his game to the pro level. Hes doing what he does against kids because he can. WJC was a testiment to this outside of his one move against Lativa or whatever team it was.

I don't see Kyrou creating in the same way Gaudreau does. Gaudreau can dictate the pace of the game, slow things down, and thread a pass thru traffic like very few people can. I have not seen Kyrou exert a similar kind of control over the pace of the game.

 

[Dbrownss]

For sure, I didn't think you were saying it was likely Kyrou would be traded then win the calder. It was clear that you were not 100% serious about that scenario, as I hope it was clear I won't actually kill and eat a raccoon (sorry Majorityof1).

From the video I have watched of Kyrou, I really don't think he is the type of player to truly attack and drive to the net consistently. He definitely scored some goals in close...but it's not like he's usually engaging/challenging defenders and winning physical battles in front of the net in order to scoring goals in the dirty areas.

I think the majority of offense that Kyrou generates comes in 1 of 2 ways. 1) using his speed off the rush and 2) utilizing time and space (often on the PP or created by his skating ability) to get well placed shots from the slot or nifty passes to open teammates.


I want to be clear here, my opinion about Kyrou is not solely based on that highlight reel goal he had in the WJC (not saying you're saying that...just want to be clear).

Agreed that currently the NHL is moving more towards speed, and that watching the parade of lesser wingers play with Schwartz - Schenn was frustrating. I guess I just want to temper expectations a bit. The things that I think made Kyrou so effective in junior, particularly creating time and space his speed or utilizing time and space on the PP, may not translate immediately to the NHL. Even in the AHL with his speed and skating, there is going to be a LOT less time/space for him to work with. It's not just that the opponents will be bigger/faster/stronger (tho they will be). It's that the defensive structure is much tighter in the AHL or NHL, which I worry may negate some of his skating ability.

Maybe his skating and other skills are enough to overcome the hurdles he faces, that is totally possible. There are definitely players (like McDavid/Barzal/etc) that can still carry the puck end to end and/or use their speed to back off defenders and create time/space. Not sure Kyrou is quite on that level, but regardless I don't think it's reasonable to expect Kyrou to step onto a top line in the NHL and receive significant PP time as a rookie...and if he wins the calder I will happily kill and eat a raccoon.


I don't see Kyrou creating in the same way Gaudreau does. Gaudreau can dictate the pace of the game, slow things down, and thread a pass thru traffic like very few people can. I have not seen Kyrou exert a similar kind of control over the pace of the game.

He does play with more pace but He can feather passes though traffic very well. In juniors he does play more off the rush, but watch how he dictates a PP. I've seen those tendacies in 5 on 5 too

 

[Itsnotatrap]

I think there’s a big difference in thinking Kyrou will need time playing vs men to adjust his game vs thinking his game won’t adjust at all. I’m firmly in the former camp.

I agree he won’t be able to beat d-men down the boards a fraction of the time that he can in juniors, and that’s probably going to be a painful lesson to learn, so hopefully he learns it fast. However, I believe he can use his fantastic edgework to buy time for his creativity as a playmaker. Also, in camp, I noticed on some of the drills that required him to take a little contact around the net and hold possession, he was holding up pretty well actually. I know camp is not live bullets, so it’s an open question, but the bits I have seen led me to believe he is going to be capable of using his skill to get in close. Also, his shot isn’t fantastic, but the part that will definitely play is his ability to get a decent amount of snap on it from all kinds of weird angles.

I am admittedly very bullish on Kyrou, quite possibly too much so, but I’m just arguing that the concerns around him, to me, seem to be much, much more about how long it will take him to adjust rather than the more serious concerns about whether he will be able to ever adjust at all.

 

[Dbrownss]

I think there’s a big difference in thinking Kyrou will need time playing vs men to adjust his game vs thinking his game won’t adjust at all. I’m firmly in the former camp.

I agree he won’t be able to beat d-men down the boards a fraction of the time that he can in juniors, and that’s probably going to be a painful lesson to learn, so hopefully he learns it fast. However, I believe he can use his fantastic edgework to buy time for his creativity as a playmaker. Also, in camp, I noticed on some of the drills that required him to take a little contact around the net and hold possession, he was holding up pretty well actually. I know camp is not live bullets, so it’s an open question, but the bits I have seen led me to believe he is going to be capable of using his skill to get in close. Also, his shot isn’t fantastic, but the part that will definitely play is his ability to get a decent amount of snap on it from all kinds of weird angles.

I am admittedly very bullish on Kyrou, quite possibly too much so, but I’m just arguing that the concerns around him, to me, seem to be much, much more about how long it will take him to adjust rather than the more serious concerns about whether he will be able to ever adjust at all.

Zach Sanford disagrees

 

[EastonBlues22]

I think there's a lot of room for questions about how Kyrou's game will adapt to the NHL, both in terms of overall effectiveness and in terms of quickness. I've always liked him a lot, and I like him even more now, but I'm honestly not expecting him to break camp with the team next year.

For me, the questions are mostly about whether he can adjust his puck management/risk taking as needed, how much diligence/consistency he displays away from the puck, and how he will adapt to the increased physicality. I'm not overly concerned that any of those things will keep him out of the league completely, but they might certainly affect his overall ceiling and/or how quickly he transitions to the NHL.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Zach Sanford disagrees

Hell I didn't think the weight room was supposed to be live bullets either, then again Patrik Berglund disagrees there