Armchair GM V

[8snake]

In all fairness, he should have Dekeyser, Green, Tatar & maybe Sheahan on that core list.

What has Riley Sheahan done in the NHL that leads you to believe he is a core player? Sheahan might not even be in the league in 3-4 years. Not physical or tenacious enough to be a checking forward, not skilled enough to be a top 6 guy. I hope Holland doesn't view him as an important piece moving forward.

 

[Reddwit]

Time to go after Dmitry Orlov. Waste no time. Pull a -insert whoever put pressure on Boston with Hamilton here- and get him.

It's either use the offersheet, tank, or overpay by trade. Pick your poison. Be pretty awful to go into a new arena with a sinking team whose biggest draws are geriatrics and one kid. An offersheet would definitely get the Wings some hype, heh.

Edit: This post was tongue in cheek, but the more I think about it, the more I think it might be time to break the offersheet seal (on a guy like Orlov, aka, a guy you wouldn't have to offer a huge sum for in order to make the team back down - not $5M+ anyway). Holland should have no shame at this point. Any GM of a team whose player is targeted should know - and there's no reason Holland can't sit down with that GM and tell him this - that this isn't personal and has been a last resort for Holland. Ton of pressure to address the defense with promising youth with the new arena coming. It's a unique situation. Play it out that way. It's not like any GM has actually been blackballed for it yet. (Just make sure DD and Mrazek are locked up first).

Edit 2: Never mind. Compensation including a 1st pick kicks in at $3.65M. Thought you could offer in the $4M range w/o giving up a 1st. Too bad.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Since Ken Holland trades 2 days in a year, how about we tarnish our reputation a bit and offer sheet some guys? Here's some targets:

• Nikita Kucherov (if Stamkos resigns): Guy has the most points at Tampa (54 in 65). If Stamkos is resigned, TBL is entering cap hell. I'm fine with 7m AAV - which would return 1,2,3 round picks. It's unlikely that we ever trade with divisional rival who has Yzerman as their GM, so no hard feelings. We're also probably one of the better teams that can offer him that money. Problem - convince Kucherov he needs money more than a cup.
• Jacob Trouba: Guy was rumoured to want more money than Jets are willing to offer - perfect target for offer sheet. He has 17 points in 66 games, so he's no better at offense than our current D, but he's young and has potential. Problem - his AAV. You can't make it too small because Jets would match and you can't make it too big because we need to resign DDK who is better right now - hard to justify giving him less than Trouba in negotiations.
• Lindholm/Vatanen: Anaheim probably can't fit both under the cap. Lindholm has 1st pairing potential, Vatanen has points - both of the things our defence lacks. Problem - Anaheim will probably trade Vatanen and match whatever we offer for Lindholm so chances of making it work are bad.

we ABSOLUTELY should offer sheet a guy

why not?

its not like KH makes trades or has so many on the burner that by doing so will cause all other potential dealings to burn

offer sheet trouba or kucherov would be a smart plan

 

[Reddwit]

we ABSOLUTELY should offer sheet a guy

why not?

its not like KH makes trades or has so many on the burner that by doing so will cause all other potential dealings to burn

offer sheet trouba or kucherov would be a smart plan

I agreed but now I'm conflicted.

I don't think Kucherov or Trouba are good targets. I'm not convinced by Trouba and Kucherov, albeit better than Nyquist, will probably eventually get the same treatment on this board because of his size and how he plays the game. He's a smaller, skilled guy with a good shot who feasts on the powerplay. He's Nyquist, but a step above. Now add the pressure of a $7M deal and him signing it as a RFA and its a recipe for disaster. Nothing about the way Kucherov comes off on the ice says he has the swagger to absorb that media spotlight and hype either.

I like Lindholm as a target a lot more.

The other thing is, do we want to give up a 1st round pick when next year could mean no playoffs? With the way Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Kronwall are almost deteriorating by the day, and the way everyone else has stagnated (be it because of that, the system, or just talent), its a scary time to give up a 1st.

I think Holland missed the boat on going the offer-sheet route a few years ago, especially when he re-signed Quincey.

The thing I do like about the offer-sheet route right now is that Holland is probably a more sympathetic party than ever. Of course GMs are going to be pissed if he goes the offer-sheet route, but he can trumpet the position he's in to his advantage: He's struggled to upgrade his defense for years now, has the pressure to ice a hyped roster for the new arena, and isn't in a rich-get-richer position like it would be if a team like LA or even Tampa stole a player via offer-sheet.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

we ABSOLUTELY should offer sheet a guy

why not?

its not like KH makes trades or has so many on the burner that by doing so will cause all other potential dealings to burn

offer sheet trouba or kucherov would be a smart plan

No it wouldn't.

Signing an RFA gives you an inflated cap hit and a big time loss of draft picks... Or you just end up negotiating the contract for the other team.

Anything reasonable, and Tampa matches on Kucherov. Trouba is better than what we have... But anything shy of 6.5 and Winnipeg just keeps him. Or at least they should.

An offer sheet for either of those guys will either not work or lock you in Aran exorbitant rate which you will be complaining about in two years and cost you several picks that you'll moan about losing.

Signing an RFA is a fools game. And I'm kinda annoyed by all of the "why not" reasoning for why the Wings should do stuff. Doing stuff for s's and g's without a true plan gets you where Toronto is and lands you David Clarkson on a 5.5M deal.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

No it wouldn't.

Signing an RFA gives you an inflated cap hit and a big time loss of draft picks... Or you just end up negotiating the contract for the other team.

Anything reasonable, and Tampa matches on Kucherov. Trouba is better than what we have... But anything shy of 6.5 and Winnipeg just keeps him. Or at least they should.

An offer sheet for either of those guys will either not work or lock you in Aran exorbitant rate which you will be complaining about in two years and cost you several picks that you'll moan about losing.

Signing an RFA is a fools game. And I'm kinda annoyed by all of the "why not" reasoning for why the Wings should do stuff. Doing stuff for s's and g's without a true plan gets you where Toronto is and lands you David Clarkson on a 5.5M deal.

for the right player worthy of his contract an offer sheet is a good approach

you either get the player for the dollar he is worth on an open market(yes you treat others teams RFA's as UFA's)

or

you disrupt your opponents budget

what got toronto into the clarkson mess was believing DC was a good hockey player worthy of that contract after just one good season(that came when he was older)

 

[Reddwit]

No it wouldn't.

Signing an RFA gives you an inflated cap hit and a big time loss of draft picks... Or you just end up negotiating the contract for the other team.

Anything reasonable, and Tampa matches on Kucherov. Trouba is better than what we have... But anything shy of 6.5 and Winnipeg just keeps him. Or at least they should.

An offer sheet for either of those guys will either not work or lock you in Aran exorbitant rate which you will be complaining about in two years and cost you several picks that you'll moan about losing.

Signing an RFA is a fools game. And I'm kinda annoyed by all of the "why not" reasoning for why the Wings should do stuff. Doing stuff for s's and g's without a true plan gets you where Toronto is and lands you David Clarkson on a 5.5M deal.

And signing your own older, less talented UFAs out of desperation doesn't?

This team overpays its own UFAs. It would overpay even more for other UFAs. And this ignores the fact that the guys who hit the market are (1) older and (2) typically not as good.

I would've gladly given up a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Hamilton last year at $6.5-7M. We give up 2/3 of that deal for junk at the deadline half the time anyway. And then we gave $6M to an equivalent player who is almost a decade older on the opposite side of his career potential wise.

 

[Claypool]

we ABSOLUTELY should offer sheet a guy

why not?

Because the team will match the offer? Holland then would have wasted his time negotiating a player's contract for another team.

Then you have to worry about Red Wings players becoming targets of offer sheets.

 

[BinCookin]

You know we have hit rock bottom when "offer sheets" are being considered.

These things dont work at all. And if they did, it wouldn't be for market value it would be for MASSIVE overpay. Only then would the team not match.

 

[Ingvar]

You know we have hit rock bottom when "offer sheets" are being considered.

These things dont work at all. And if they did, it wouldn't be for market value it would be for MASSIVE overpay. Only then would the team not match.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Teams don't sell their future 1Ds often. They don't even sell their "probably 1st pairing guys" - Vatanen, Hamonic and Shattenkirk are still with their teams. Even if they sold them, we wouldn't have much to offer. Wings have 2 players of value that they can afford to lose - Nyquist and Tatar. Losing either of them would hurt a lot: Detroit has exactly 6 high scoring forwards - just enough to fill top-6. Then we have players we can't afford to trade - Larkin, Mrazek, DDK - and a bunch of typical DRW prospects who can succeed in NHL only after patient development. We also don't pick in top-5 or 10 so our picks generally have more value for our development system then for everybody else.

Offer sheets are for us. It's a high-risk high-reward chance to get talent. Suppose we convince STL to trade Shatty for Gus. Offer sheet to Kucherov would make it net positive for us - and all for a price of some picks in 2017 draft which is supposed to be weak anyway. If TBL matches it - we lose nothing. Maybe we even get a chance to sign Hedman next year after they can't afford him

 

[Perfect Human]

What if Holland trades Petr this offseason, then signs a backup for jimmy who gets paid to be a backup...
I don't see Ken trading Jimmy. and Petr is up for a huge pay raise. We cant afford to pay him the same number as Jimmy, but we can afford to pay him a backups wages, which he wouldn't accept.

 

[Pavels Dog]

What if Holland trades Petr this offseason, then signs a backup for jimmy who gets paid to be a backup...
I don't see Ken trading Jimmy. and Petr is up for a huge pay raise. We cant afford to pay him the same number as Jimmy, but we can afford to pay him a backups wages, which he wouldn't accept.

Petr is not up for a "huge" pay raise. He'll get a bridge-deal.