Armchair GM V

[Mister Ed]

First in a world of unlimited money all great ideas, but the cost of this will be nearly impossible. Second how did Weise get in the mix?

I really like Weise, he would bring a new element in the fold. 26 points in 56 games, 6'2'', 205lbs RW. Perfect for a bottom 6 role, unless Callahan can fill that void.

As for Stamkos, he might cost too much. I would then go for option B, signing Staal/Backes for that 3rd line C role (we all know the 3rd and 2nd line have almost the same ice time here).

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I would let go Quincey and upgrade via FA (Yandle or Hamhuis) or trade (Vatanen or Fowler).

Try and sign Stamkos, if you can move Howard and free up his salary. Raanta/McCollum/Coreau for backup next year.

Promote Mantha first if injuries arise.

Nyquist - Stamkos - Abdelkader
Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Larkin
Tatar - Sheahan - Athanasiou
Jurco - Glendening - Weise/Pulkkinen

Dekeyser - Green
Kronwall - Vatanen
Smith - Marchenko
Ericsson

Mrazek
Coreau

Not sure how you're going to get Vatanen on the team without one of either Nyquist/Tatar going the other way. And are you saying that Detroit should try and sign Dale Weise as a UFA this summer. And Stamkos will just cost us far to much for far to long. As much as i would love to see Stamkos in Detroit it's just something that i can't see Holland pursuing.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

ken holland is simply not a good enough GM to fix what needs fixing

maybe he is too stubborn

maybe he belives his own hype too much

maybe he has lost his edge

we dont need a roster overhaul but we do need to get creative and not keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole

so
-pckg howard plus sproul/pulkinnen plus 1 million retention to calgary for a 6th rd pick
-trade helms ufa rights
-trade smith for whatever pick you can get
-pckg tatar or nyquist plus bertuzzi or jensen plus a pick for a dman(vatanen/shatty, etc)
-dont resign miller or richards or quincey
-sign a cheap nhl experienced backup

 

[InjuredChoker]

I really like Weise, he would bring a new element in the fold. 26 points in 56 games, 6'2'', 205lbs RW. Perfect for a bottom 6 role, unless Callahan can fill that void.

As for Stamkos, he might cost too much. I would then go for option B, signing Staal/Backes for that 3rd line C role (we all know the 3rd and 2nd line have almost the same ice time here).

i'm strongly against signing backes/staal.

we shouldn't be signing 30+ year olds to big deals. this roster has more than enough of those already.

 

[PelagicJoe]

i'm strongly against signing backes/staal.

we shouldn't be signing 30+ year olds to big deals. this roster has more than enough of those already.

I wouldnt mind Backes being on the team. He's better than everyone we have right now except for Datsyuk and maybe Z.

 

[Pavels Dog]

ken holland is simply not a good enough GM to fix what needs fixing

You underestimate how difficult it is to 'fix' what needs fixing on this team. We need a top 2 d-man. Preferably a young #1. That is, by far, the most difficult piece to acquire in a trade and probably the most difficult to draft as well. They rarely reach FA, and nearly every time that kind of piece is actually traded it's for a comparable piece in return.

Vatanen/Shattenkirk are players Holland should absolutely, 100% target. But is either of them even a #1 d-man? Not really.

 

[Mister Ed]

i'm strongly against signing backes/staal.

we shouldn't be signing 30+ year olds to big deals. this roster has more than enough of those already.

Are you comfortable with :

Datsyuk
Larkin/Athanasiou
Sheahan
Glendening

As the 4 C? I think a veteran in there would help.

 

[Electric Eric]

Are you comfortable with :

Datsyuk
Larkin/Athanasiou
Sheahan
Glendening

As the 4 C? I think a veteran in there would help.

Why not? Larkin has 2 more points than Artem Anisimov and he's playing with Kane. More points than both of ARI top 2 centers. 3 more points than Kesler and Rakell. 2 more points than Couturier, tied with Marleau, more points than any of the Blues centers and more points than Johnson and Filpulla.

Point being, even taking into consideration it'll be his first NHL season playing Center he should be able to handle it.

Use the money/assets on either a winger (Hoffman or Okposo for different reasons) that can score during 5v5 play or gut the defensive core and rebuild it with more mobile dmen.

 

[Reddwit]

Are you comfortable with :

Datsyuk
Larkin/Athanasiou
Sheahan
Glendening

As the 4 C? I think a veteran in there would help.

Whatever deal Backes gets will be turrible in 2 years. Always happens to guys like him.

And I'd be fine with those 4C. It's what we're using this year, just with Datsyuk worse and likely one, two or all of the other top 9 Cs getting better. Fits a mold of possibly falling out of the playoffs or squeaking in.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

You underestimate how difficult it is to 'fix' what needs fixing on this team. We need a top 2 d-man. Preferably a young #1. That is, by far, the most difficult piece to acquire in a trade and probably the most difficult to draft as well. They rarely reach FA, and nearly every time that kind of piece is actually traded it's for a comparable piece in return.

Vatanen/Shattenkirk are players Holland should absolutely, 100% target. But is either of them even a #1 d-man? Not really.

i feel that KH simply isnt creative or daring enough to do what needs to be done to faix what ails us.

its not restricted to just that top pairing dman, we have many other needs(holes) that he want or wont be able to fix given his current and past philosophies or tendencies or habits or what have you

as for the idea that neither shatty or vatanen is a #1 dman, whats wrong with that statement isnt that those players are or are not #1 dmen, its the idea or premise that we can or will ever find that true elite #1 dman ever again.

we dont need a lidstrom, we just need a much better overall group of dmen

who cares if shatty is a #1 dman or not on every other team, all that matters is whether he would be OUR #1 dman

 

[RedWingzz]

ken holland is simply not a good enough GM to fix what needs fixing

maybe he is too stubborn

maybe he belives his own hype too much

maybe he has lost his edge

we dont need a roster overhaul but we do need to get creative and not keep trying to fit a square peg into a round hole

so
-pckg howard plus sproul/pulkinnen plus 1 million retention to calgary for a 6th rd pick
-trade helms ufa rights
-trade smith for whatever pick you can get
-pckg tatar or nyquist plus bertuzzi or jensen plus a pick for a dman(vatanen/shatty, etc)
-dont resign miller or richards or quincey
-sign a cheap nhl experienced backup

If only being a real life NHL GM was as easy as being a GM in NHL 16.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

If only being a real life NHL GM was as easy as being a GM in NHL 16.

thats true

in NHL 16 no team would have all those names on their roster in the first place

thanks for pointing that out

 

[Classicnamesup]

In NHL 16 I would have given up and rerolled by now

 

[RedWingzz]

thats true

in NHL 16 no team would have all those names on their roster in the first place

thanks for pointing that out

You're welcome

 

[Pavels Dog]

we dont need a lidstrom, we just need a much better overall group of dmen

who cares if shatty is a #1 dman or not on every other team, all that matters is whether he would be OUR #1 dman

Yeah agreed, just making the point of how difficult it is to acquire d-men that are top-pairing quality. Ken Holland isn't the only GM that struggles to acquire these types of players.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

i feel that KH simply isnt creative or daring enough to do what needs to be done to faix what ails us.

its not restricted to just that top pairing dman, we have many other needs(holes) that he want or wont be able to fix given his current and past philosophies or tendencies or habits or what have you

as for the idea that neither shatty or vatanen is a #1 dman, whats wrong with that statement isnt that those players are or are not #1 dmen, its the idea or premise that we can or will ever find that true elite #1 dman ever again.

we dont need a lidstrom, we just need a much better overall group of dmen

who cares if shatty is a #1 dman or not on every other team, all that matters is whether he would be OUR #1 dman

No... the problem with trading for Vatanen or Shattenkirk isn't so much that they're not #1D so we don't want them. It's more that Anaheim and St. Louis will want prices closer to #1D level than those defensemen can justify. It would be like paying Ferrari prices for a Corvette because I want to improve on my Ford Focus.

Now, that doesn't mean you don't look into the prices on a guy like Vatanen or Shattenkirk but those aren't the type of players that you sell the farm for and I think Ken Holland knows that.

 

[Reddwit]

No... the problem with trading for Vatanen or Shattenkirk isn't so much that they're not #1D so we don't want them. It's more that Anaheim and St. Louis will want prices closer to #1D level than those defensemen can justify. It would be like paying Ferrari prices for a Corvette because I want to improve on my Ford Focus.

Now, that doesn't mean you don't look into the prices on a guy like Vatanen or Shattenkirk but those aren't the type of players that you sell the farm for and I think Ken Holland knows that.

You've just described the exact mindset that has us struggling to make the playoffs with the one of the worst organizational defense cores in 20 years.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

No... the problem with trading for Vatanen or Shattenkirk isn't so much that they're not #1D so we don't want them. It's more that Anaheim and St. Louis will want prices closer to #1D level than those defensemen can justify. It would be like paying Ferrari prices for a Corvette because I want to improve on my Ford Focus.

Now, that doesn't mean you don't look into the prices on a guy like Vatanen or Shattenkirk but those aren't the type of players that you sell the farm for and I think Ken Holland knows that.

i have read 1000 times more posts on hf boards depicting a scenario where one GM pays out the wazhoo for player x, y or z then what i have seen actually happen in the real world NHL

I do not believe IF shatty or vatanen were to be available that either of them would require us or any team to "sell the farm" inorder to acquire

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Yeah agreed, just making the point of how difficult it is to acquire d-men that are top-pairing quality. Ken Holland isn't the only GM that struggles to acquire these types of players.

no he is not

 

[Kronwalled55]

Mike Hoffman is probably leaving Ottawa soon. I would love to have him in Detroit, but I fear the cost is extremely steep. He's likely the most underrated goal scorer in the league right now. Our defense is a priority, but we're not exactly lighting the lamp much either.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I honestly don't even know what to do with this team right now. I don't think tanking is an option and its pretty obvious they are going nowhere.

I guess you just have to look at cutting all the dead & useless weight aka Ken Holland special

Glendening
Helm
Richards
Quincey
Ericsson
Tatar
Smith
Howard
Miller

There's a good start.

He can't afford Richards so he'll move on. Another great Holland contract no one could have predicted was a gross overpayment. Quincey is probably a cap casuality, unless he pulls a Cleary and basically signs for whatever Holland has left in cap space. I can't see anyone else signing Quincey. He's a Red Wings lifer at this point. Miller could be in pretty much the same situation, maybe he can catch on in Toronto as Babs apperciates good PK'ers.

Other than that Holland will sign Helm to a new/awful deal and start waiving/sending guys down. Smith is an obvious, as is Howard.

 

[Reddwit]

Mike Hoffman is probably leaving Ottawa soon. I would love to have him in Detroit, but I fear the cost is extremely steep. He's likely the most underrated goal scorer in the league right now. Our defense is a priority, but we're not exactly lighting the lamp much either.

Pretty sure he's RFA, so they/he can go for arbitration. Saw on the Trade Rumors board that he wants $6M? That seems steep, but I bet Ottawa would swap Hoffman for Nyquist. Hoffman is a superior Nyquist but Nyquist has the deal. Bet Ottawa - a budget team - would take it. Save face. Have security. Get a similar guy.

Nyquist for Hoffman, Tatar (plus add-ons) for Vatanen. Red Wings HFBoards forum happy.

 

[Reddwit]

He can't afford Richards so he'll move on. Another great Holland contract no one could have predicted was a gross overpayment. Quincey is probably a cap casuality, unless he pulls a Cleary and basically signs for whatever Holland has left in cap space. I can't see anyone else signing Quincey. He's a Red Wings lifer at this point. Miller could be in pretty much the same situation, maybe he can catch on in Toronto as Babs apperciates good PK'ers.

Other than that Holland will sign Helm to a new/awful deal and start waiving/sending guys down. Smith is an obvious, as is Howard.

Why? He's a solid defenseman. People sign losers like the bad Weber, Bartkowski, etc all the time. The Red Wings are a sinking ship. I doubt Quincey would be like "hey, I can stick with a Wings team that has no future for $4.2M or I can sign with the Oilers for $4.5M. What ever should I do? 300k is peanuts, after all."

 

[Run the Jewels]

Why? He's a solid defenseman. People sign losers like the bad Weber, Bartkowski, etc all the time. The Red Wings are a sinking ship. I doubt Quincey would be like "hey, I can stick with a Wings team that has no future for $4.2M or I can sign with the Oilers for $4.5M. What ever should I do? 300k is peanuts, after all."

You very well may be right. I feel confident he will not get a contract offer on July 1st or 2nd. He's getting up there and at this point there are likely cheaper/younger options who do much the same thing as Quincey. So my thinking is if Holland stays the course and no one else sees the value in signing Q then he could come back for whatever Holland has available in cap space. Last time around Q wasn't going to get an offer until Holland missed out on every free agent he went after. Would he have landed somewhere else if Holland got one of his UFA targets?

I'm not so sure. With that being said there's a decent chance he'll get a contract offer. I'm fully expecting if that happens he's going to get a pretty significant haircut when it comes to salary.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Last time around Q wasn't going to get an offer until Holland missed out on every free agent he went after. Would he have landed somewhere else if Holland got one of his UFA targets?

Yes. He's not the guy that teams will rush to on July 1st, but plenty of teams could use his services. For example Ottawa would be much improved if they signed him.