Speculation: Armchair GM Thread VIII - We've Tried Nothing! And we have all kinds of ideas!

[super6646]

Hanifin isn’t far off from Chychrun. So underrated still lol

Let me know when Hanifin paces for a 60 pt season like Chychrun did last year

 

[DirtDiver]

Let me know when Hanifin paces for a 60 pt season like Chychrun did last year

Let me know when teams only play in their division for another year. Cant use last year as a base line for any player. Players tend to do better verses certain play styles then others.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Hanifin isn’t far off from Chychrun. So underrated still lol

I like Noah a lot. But really, who else besides Keller is generating offence for the Yotes. Chych would be an elite dman playing with our guys and my god, would I love to add that shot as a weapon to our PP.

 

[super6646]

Let me know when teams only play in their division for another year. Cant use last year as a base line for any player. Players tend to do better verses certain play styles then others.

That isn't a really good rebuttal. Scoring within divisions was relatively even, it isn't as if they were leagues apart in terms of caliber of competition.

Hanifin doesn't come close to the offensive upside of Chychrun. Hanifin is a reliable #3-4 who can put up 30 pts a season give or take. Chychrun has shown far more than that.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

All i am going to say is look at how Ras played without Hanifin for the last two years. If Ras doesn't play with an elite skater to control the neutral zone he's a pretty ineffective player. We need Hanifin's skating. I've said this a 1000 times but he's Jbo's clone, and is oddly going through the Jbo treatment again. Hanifin is the perfect fit for Sutter's system and has been for the last two years.

He's the most underrated player on the roster and has been for two years now. I don't see that changing because casual fans like flash over substance. The reason we are an elite possession team is because our D is elite. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

 

[super6646]

All i am going to say is look at how Ras played without Hanifin for the last two years. If Ras doesn't play with an elite skater to control the neutral zone he's a pretty ineffective player. We need Hanifin's skating. I've said this a 1000 times but he's Jbo's clone, and is oddly going through the Jbo treatment again. Hanifin is the perfect fit for Sutter's system and has been for the last two years.

He's the most underrated player on the roster and has been for two years now. I don't see that changing because casual fans like flash over substance. The reason we are an elite possession team is because our D is elite. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

I'll just argue these 2 points because why the hell not.

1. Rasmus was fine when he wasn't playing with Giordano, which makes sense given that he was old and slowing down. Playing 2 slow dmen together was a recipe for disaster. Andersson was fine with Valimaki and Kylington and Fanta. It does concern me Andersson has had a rather poor CR% the past 2 seasons, but his overall possession metrics are still very solid (the team is just excellent in that regard)

2. Lol no. He's polarizing, but either people here overrate him and say he is an incredible top pairing dman, or say he's total trash, and there is little middle ground with him. Either way, our top 4 averages 17-18 mins at ES, and Kylington-Tanev is the pair that wins the possession battle. Our top 2 pairs are good, and each of the dmen has various strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Mazatt]

Either way, our top 4 averages 17-18 mins at ES, and Kylington-Tanev is the pair that wins the possession battle. Our top 2 pairs are good, and each of the dmen has various strengths and weaknesses.

This is the exact thing with Hanifin. He's irreplaceable... because our defence is built to be around the top 4 and losing any of those 4 guys is going to be awful for the Flames. Doesn't entail Hanifin is the cream of the crop, or that he's awful, but the whole argument that he is necessary therefore he is good falls apart when the same logic is applied to Andersson, Kylington, and Tanev, as they all can't be top pairing guys even though they are unreplaceable--and in my opinion a very solid line that has good possession both ways without blowing anything out of the water is the definition of an ideal 2nd pairing while a 1st pairing should be able to win those possession metrics, so it'd matchup with the idea both players are just slotted in where they should be

 

[super6646]

This is the exact thing with Hanifin. He's irreplaceable... because our defence is built to be around the top 4 and losing any of those 4 guys is going to be awful for the Flames. Doesn't entail Hanifin is the cream of the crop, or that he's awful, but the whole argument that he is necessary therefore he is good falls apart when the same logic is applied to Andersson, Kylington, and Tanev, as they all can't be top pairing guys even though they are unreplaceable--and in my opinion a very solid line that has good possession both ways without blowing anything out of the water is the definition of an ideal 2nd pairing while a 1st pairing should be able to win those possession metrics, so it'd matchup with the idea both players are just slotted in where they should be

I don't necessarily disagree, but that is partially because the Flames have decided to dick around with Valimaki and Mackey when both should be seeing NHL minutes. I know Zadorov-Gudbrandson have good underlyings, but they are strictly bottom pairing dmen who really shouldn't be used in a pinch. Valimaki and Mackey COULD develop into that, but who knows until they play...

I'd also say that losing Kylington and or Tanev would hurt more than losing Hanifin imo, especially the former. He has added an element to our dcore that we did not have, and I think he is a major reason we have a good top 4. Say whatever you want about "flash", but tangible offense from the backend is essential in the NHL. Kylington takes us from below average to average/above average on that front.

 

[Volica]

2. Lol no. He's polarizing, but either people here overrate him and say he is an incredible top pairing dman, or say he's total trash, and there is little middle ground with him.

As one of Hanifin's bigger fans on this board, I don't even go as far as saying he's an incredible #1 or anything. Is there anyone in reality that thinks Noah's a true incredible top pairing guy? Or is this sort of a reality we've made up on the board to counter the amount of guys that are flat out 2012-2013 remakes of Bouwmeester haters?

He's a really, really strong top 4 guy, who in reality plays well in the top pair. He is Lidstrom in his prime? No. Is he Keith in his prime? No, but he's certainly the JBo to someone's Pieterangelo or the Ryan McDonagh of the Lightning top 4. Just a dude who'll give you 22 minutes a night if called upon, win the possession battle, win the goal battle and be a guy you can literally start anywhere on the ice and be absolutely fine.

I understand the premise of "Move Hanifin for Chychrun" because you're banking that coming into Calgary Chychrun could rebound into that top guy that Arizona saw last year, and all of the sudden you have a guy on your top pair and PP that could pick you up 60 points (something Hanifin won't do, he's not that D anymore). The premise of "just move Hanifin and replace within" is a horrible take; he's the best LD we have by some margin; the gap between him a Kylington is real, and the gap between Kylington and everything below him is a Grand Canyon worth of space. We don't have anyone internally to replace 20+ minutes a night with Rasmus that could do what these guys do right now. Our team strength is 100% the fact that our top 4 can start anywhere, against anyone, and more often than not be fine.

 

[super6646]

As one of Hanifin's bigger fans on this board, I don't even go as far as saying he's an incredible #1 or anything. Is there anyone in reality that thinks Noah's a true incredible top pairing guy? Or is this sort of a reality we've made up on the board to counter the amount of guys that are flat out 2012-2013 remakes of Bouwmeester haters?

He's a really, really strong top 4 guy, who in reality plays well in the top pair. He is Lidstrom in his prime? No. Is he Keith in his prime? No, but he's certainly the JBo to someone's Pieterangelo or the Ryan McDonagh of the Lightning top 4. Just a dude who'll give you 22 minutes a night if called upon, win the possession battle, win the goal battle and be a guy you can literally start anywhere on the ice and be absolutely fine.

I understand the premise of "Move Hanifin for Chychrun" because you're banking that coming into Calgary Chychrun could rebound into that top guy that Arizona saw last year, and all of the sudden you have a guy on your top pair and PP that could pick you up 60 points (something Hanifin won't do, he's not that D anymore). The premise of "just move Hanifin and replace within" is a horrible take; he's the best LD we have by some margin; the gap between him a Kylington is real, and the gap between Kylington and everything below him is a Grand Canyon worth of space. We don't have anyone internally to replace 20+ minutes a night with Rasmus that could do what these guys do right now. Our team strength is 100% the fact that our top 4 can start anywhere, against anyone, and more often than not be fine.

It was hyperbole, but I have certainly seen you call him a top pairing dman on this board before, and others as well. He ain't that. Just as some (such as @Mobiandi, sorry for the call out) think he is utterly disposable too, well you need another top 4 dman to step up before that. He is miles ahead of Zadorov and Gudbrandson. And yes, he is absolutely a big reason we have a solid all around top 4.

As for the bolded, prove it. Seems like a lot of that claim is based off of pedigree, but this certainly doesn't appear to be the case this year. At ES, Hanifin averages a massive 10 seconds a game more than Kylington (in other words, noise). Kylington has better possession metrics, is better offensively, and just from the eye he certainly looked good getting himself glued to Mcdavid a few weeks back.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Let me know when Hanifin paces for a 60 pt season like Chychrun did last year

Let us know if/when Chychrun decides to look like he did last year again.

Seriously though, last year was a huge outlier offensively for him. Think he's a solid young player, I'm not sold he's going to put up those kind of numbers consistently.

 

[super6646]

Let us know if/when Chychrun decides to look like he did last year again.

Seriously though, last year was a huge outlier offensively for him. Think he's a solid young player, I'm not sold he's going to put up those kind of numbers consistently.

It very well could be, but he has shown he is capable of it. Hanifin hasn't had an outlier year close to that.

 

[Gritty]

If I was our GM, I would get us Scheifele and Chych this deadline. Sadly I am not.

I would love to see the Jets fail more and go after Scheifele. What a perfect fit he would be for this team.
If they would take Monahan for cap purposes, I would include our 1st and 2nd with Zary/Valimaki. I would even do our 1st + Pelletier if that would get the job done.

The fact that he still has two more years at a very reasonable caphit is super enticing.

Johnny - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Mangi - Scheifele - Coleman

That's a great looking top 6!

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Let us know if/when Chychrun decides to look like he did last year again.

Seriously though, last year was a huge outlier offensively for him. Think he's a solid young player, I'm not sold he's going to put up those kind of numbers consistently.

I don’t think it’s an outlier at all. Most people don’t realize just how bad AZ is. They are like us minus Tkachuk and Johnny. I think you put a dman like Chych with our players and the top line in the league, that’s an amazing group of players to roll out.

In perfect world we keep Noah, but I feel good about Oliver’s development that I would move him for Chych. I have zero problems calling him a franchise #1.

 

[Bond]

I would love to see the Jets fail more and go after Scheifele. What a perfect fit he would be for this team.
If they would take Monahan for cap purposes, I would include our 1st and 2nd with Zary/Valimaki. I would even do our 1st + Pelletier if that would get the job done.

The fact that he still has two more years at a very reasonable caphit is super enticing.

Johnny - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Mangi - Scheifele - Coleman

That's a great looking top 6!

Yeah, Scheifele is the one that I hope falls out of favour in Winnipeg. There are already the articles in the local press saying to trade him. Guy doesn't sweat though and it weirds me out lol

 

[TheHudlinator]

Czarnik is on waivers, I would be so happy with him in the lineup over Ritchie to bad he is 6 inches to short and 100 pounds to light for it to happen

 

[Body Checker]

Man I love the suggestions to add Copp and Rakell. I say go for both if available. Move our first, two 2nds and any B prospects. Cap can work with some retention and moving Pitlick to minors .

Keep dominant 1st line together obviously. Then make an elite 3rd line of Copp-Backlund-Coleman. Try to get Mony going with a Mangiapane-Monohan-Rakell line. And Dube with Lewis and Lucic. Rucizka/Ritchie in reserve. I think a lineup like that could come out of the West with the extra secondary scoring and Sutter's system.

 

[cheechoo]

Why can't we ever be the team that spends a 1st on top end talent that trickles depth down the lineup. So sick of continuously targeting mid line talent and ignoring the fact that this team is over-reliant on one line, and more specifically, one diminutive superstar.

We missed on Dubois. We missed on Stone. We missed on Eichel. Schiefele would be a game changer.

 

[Mobiandi]

In an ideal world, Valimaki would have pushed Hanifin out by now but we live in a Flames world where nice things happen to us once in a Darryl Sutter-moon.

Hanifin's trade value vastly exceeds his on-ice value to us and he's expendable because we won't win anything with 3 shutdown Dmen in our top 4. He's also the's the weakest of the three imo. If we didn't have both Tanev and Andersson, it would make it harder to let go of Hanifin but do we really need him considering that big gaping hole in our top 6? It may be a 2-1 or 3-2 league but if we go down 2 or 3-0, who's gonna score outside of our top line + Mangiapane?

The biggest boon to our season has been the emergence of Kylington. If we add another skilled PMD (hello John Klingberg) and bolster our forward ranks, we'll be able to make a serious push for the cup. But that would require this team to let go of its obsession with collecting players of the same ilk - e.g. our never-ending supply of one-dimensional LHS forwards, our annual stay-at-home deadline dmen - and sell high on players who occupy the same niche as others

 

[Kapteeni]

Have I missed something, is Scheifele available?

 

[Dertell]

The reason we are an elite possession team is because our D is elite.

No that is 100% Sutter. Every single D on our team had a bad 5-on-5 resume before Sutter came along (other than Tanev long ago and Kylington in the AHL). We went from a 50/50 possession team with a bad rush under Ward and Peters to the best possession team with the best rush under Sutter. He did the same thing with the Kings in the early 2010s.

If we had to credit specific players, we'd have to mention Tkachuk who has been the possession driver ever since he came here, with Mangiapane, Coleman, Gaudreau and Backlund behind. The last people we should give any credit to are Hanifin and Andersson.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

No that is 100% Sutter. Every single D on our team had a bad 5-on-5 resume before Sutter came along (other than Tanev long ago and Kylington in the AHL). We went from a 50/50 possession team with a bad rush under Ward and Peters to the best possession team with the best rush under Sutter. He did the same thing with the Kings in the early 2010s.

If we had to credit specific players, we'd have to mention Tkachuk who has been the possession driver ever since he came here, with Mangiapane, Coleman, Gaudreau and Backlund behind. The last people we should give any credit to are Hanifin and Andersson.

yes Hanifin sucks lol (also he was a dominant possession last season under G Ward too but I guess that doesn’t count cause narratives)

 

[Ainsy01]

Vegas needs to shed some salary and quickly - going to Vegas with some blood on the streets and making a lopsided deal only seems fair for Treliving as he has lost to VGK in two title fights.

Most Vegas fans, and management I'm assuming, would like to flip a pick and Dadonov to a banker type team, Detroit, Ottawa, Etc. Danonov has a NMC clause however that allows him to submit an 8 team no trade list, which would likely make that scenario impossible.

Enter Reilly Smith. Decent middle six/top six winger with a 5 million dollar cap hit that expires after this season. Could slide into the second line right wing spot, he has experience on both wings, and would likely cost less than market value. He's having a good year with 30 points that would put him 4th on the flames. He has also had several good playoff showings with Vegas.

What would a trade look like, with no retention? 2nd? 3rd round pick? Would CGY fans be interested in the player?

 

[Ainsy01]

Why can't we ever be the team that spends a 1st on top end talent that trickles depth down the lineup. So sick of continuously targeting mid line talent and ignoring the fact that this team is over-reliant on one line, and more specifically, one diminutive superstar.

We missed on Dubois. We missed on Stone. We missed on Eichel. Schiefele would be a game changer.

Scheifle would cost Tkachyk. Thats the only player WPG would trade him for, him and Lindholm. WPG is not in a position to trade him for picks/futures, nor is calgary in a position to give up picks/prospects (and no salary) to acquire him. It would mimic the Laine for PLD deal.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Vegas needs to shed some salary and quickly - going to Vegas with some blood on the streets and making a lopsided deal only seems fair for Treliving as he has lost to VGK in two title fights.

Most Vegas fans, and management I'm assuming, would like to flip a pick and Dadonov to a banker type team, Detroit, Ottawa, Etc. Danonov has a NMC clause however that allows him to submit an 8 team no trade list, which would likely make that scenario impossible.

Enter Reilly Smith. Decent middle six/top six winger with a 5 million dollar cap hit that expires after this season. Could slide into the second line right wing spot, he has experience on both wings, and would likely cost less than market value. He's having a good year with 30 points that would put him 4th on the flames. He has also had several good playoff showings with Vegas.

What would a trade look like, with no retention? 2nd? 3rd round pick? Would CGY fans be interested in the player?

I'd love to add Smith, but I genuinely think Vegas will do everything in their power to move him out of division/not to competition first. That being said, who knows, maybe a Martin Jones to SJ deal works its way out.