Speculation: Armchair GM Thread VIII - We've Tried Nothing! And we have all kinds of ideas!

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Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
46,483
14,802
Victoria
Dube is being handled almost identically to Sam Bennett. Identical. He will blossom at some point in his career, just not sure it will ever be here.
He's just so slow to make decisions with the puck at the moment, and it's really limiting his line at times. He's great one on one, but it's frustrating to see him look at a passing option, wait for an extra second, then try to make the pass anyway after the opportunity has disappeared.

I think he's slotted appropriately on this team as long as it's Lucic and not Ritchie on the opposite wing. The team has basically two second lines. Dube has plenty of opportunity to improve and contribute, but if he's fighting it he isn't going to cost the team too much.
 
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Mobiandi

Registered User
Jan 17, 2015
21,097
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As a big Dube fan, I think it's fair to say he's been the team's biggest disappointment so far. That being said, is it any surprise that his best hockey came when Bennett was on his line? Dube thrives when the game is fast and open... not exactly Sutter's forte but imagine pairing him with someone like Gourde
 
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CF Magic

Registered User
Jan 30, 2022
167
480
Calgary
His GSAA is still pretty damn solid, and he has a 920SV% to boot. He ain't trash at all.

But he just ain't a big game goalie. Look at the Flames goal differential the past 2 years when he has been the starter.

2020-21: 26-27-3, but a -5GD. Montreal made the playoffs with a worse goal differential than Calgary. Its neve great to be a minus in that regard, but in a league of 3 pt games you should be above 500 in that case at least.

2021-22: 22-13-6, and a +30 GD. Our GD is tied for 7th in the league, but we are 14th in PTS% despite that.

I think it is a more serious issue than people are willing to admit. Ik Markstrom has 7 shutouts, but 6 of those were in games that the Flames gave a ton of run support in. He seems to have an awful tendency to piss away games late when we need a crucial save.

During tied games at 5v5 this season:

Markstrom
585min TOI
0.913 SV%
0.902 MDSV%
0.804 HDSV%
-2.45 GSAA

Vasilevskiy - arguably the most "big game" goalie given his 2 Cups
624min TOI
0.935 SV%
0.939 MDSV%
0.864 HDSV%
3.76 GSAA

Even starting at mid danger chances, the difference is pretty staggering.
 

Fig

Absolute Horse Shirt
Dec 15, 2014
12,995
8,459
Markstrom has been trash this year. We've won almost no close games. Pressure is on and he lets in beach balls. He was atrocious last night. Don't know how anyone can say otherwise. I've been saying it all season, if you can get out from that contract you do it. If someone is crazy enough to offer a first because his stats are good, you make that deal now.

Hmm... I get where you're coming from, but I sorta disagree.

Pure gut feeling... IMO, Markstrom is more along the lines of a Corey Crawford that the Hawks won cups with. Doesn't often steal you too many extra games, but steady enough that he's reliable and it offsets the overall amounts of bad games. Not a hot/cold type goalie and his ups and downs are pretty consistent with the ups and downs of the team in front of him. He's also perhaps a reliable systems goalie (and not all goalies are good systems goalies). He's not like someone like MAF/Murray, Quick, Kipper, Gibson, Helly, Vasi etc. that steals a ton of games the team had no business winning.

Chasing contention with Markstrom is doable albeit not as sexy as getting someone else who can truly steal games. You don't get as many shut outs as Markstrom by being trash.

Does BT even have a plan? Or is it just ride Sutter and hope we can make a miracle run in the playoffs? This team is built so weirdly IMO, winger-heavy with no top centre or defenseman.

Honestly speaking, BT's plan feels like the Panthers lite. However, BT put his plan in motion earlier, but had less resources to work with to bring it to fruition. The Panthers have the extra elite talent to put the plan into motion via draft (ie: Barkov + Ekblad).

Metaphorically, the Calgary Flames IMO feel like the Oakland A's of Moneyball. Panthers feeling like the Red Sox of Moneyball.
 
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crazyfisherman

Sharangovich fanboy
Sep 22, 2012
2,734
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Ive been dumping on markstrom for a while but i wouldnt say hes awful, hes just sooo average. Hes stats are getting carried by the team just like how JG carried Monahan in those years. 2nd best goalie all the time when we don't pump 5 on the other goalie and only allow 20 shots tho.
 

TheHudlinator

Registered User
Nov 21, 2011
28,824
7,602
Victoria,BC
I can't believe a team with 1 legit top 6 centre, no #1 D man, and no depth scoring is carrying its goalie. Markstrom has let in a few more softies then I would like but man he is top 5 in GAA and top 10 for Sv% for goalies starting over 20 games. He is a top 10 goalie he just isn't Kipper

Edit: digging deeper the only goalie to play more minutes then Markstrom and have a better Sv% is Suros with Vasy and Gibson right behind him in Sv% and no goalie has a better GAA with more minutes and we have played some of the least amount of hockey. I'm willing to say that Sutter yet again riding his #1 is more to blame than Markstrom not being good especially when Vlad is a very good backup
 
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Tkachuk Norris

Registered User
Jun 22, 2012
15,682
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He's just so slow to make decisions with the puck at the moment, and it's really limiting his line at times. He's great one on one, but it's frustrating to see him look at a passing option, wait for an extra second, then try to make the pass anyway after the opportunity has disappeared.

I think he's slotted appropriately on this team as long as it's Lucic and not Ritchie on the opposite wing. The team has basically two second lines. Dube has plenty of opportunity to improve and contribute, but if he's fighting it he isn't going to cost the team too much.

I think he’s definitely struggling this year. He clearly has no confidence but he’s still creating chances. It’ll turn around for Dube at some point.

When players struggle fans tend to forget the larger body of work. We’ve seen it with pretty much everyone including Gaudreau. Dube is a good player. He just needs time to figure it out.

Trading him now is not what you do. Trading struggling players is exactly what Scottie Bowman said never to do. It’s like stocks, you don’t sell when they are in the crapper.
 

crazyfisherman

Sharangovich fanboy
Sep 22, 2012
2,734
2,084
I can't believe a team with 1 legit top 6 centre, no #1 D man, and no depth scoring is carrying its goalie. Markstrom has let in a few more softies then I would like but man he is top 5 in GAA and top 10 for Sv% for goalies starting over 20 games. He is a top 10 goalie he just isn't Kipper

Edit: digging deeper the only goalie to play more minutes then Markstrom and have a better Sv% is Suros with Vasy and Gibson right behind him in Sv% and no goalie has a better GAA with more minutes and we have played some of the least amount of hockey. I'm willing to say that Sutter yet again riding his #1 is more to blame than Markstrom not being good especially when Vlad is a very good backup
All those minutes yet hes a whopping 14th in number of saves made, i can guarantee you he faces some of the lowest quality chances in league too. Its amazing how we dont have any of those guys and still carry/dominate plays like this, issues with finishing aside. Hes nothing but an andersen of the west, has good stats cuz the team doesnt give up a bunch of chances. not a bad goalie, just ok.
 

TheHudlinator

Registered User
Nov 21, 2011
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Victoria,BC
All those minutes yet hes a whopping 14th in number of saves made, i can guarantee you he faces some of the lowest quality chances in league too. Its amazing how we dont have any of those guys and still carry/dominate plays like this, issues with finishing aside. Hes nothing but an andersen of the west, has good stats cuz the team doesnt give up a bunch of chances. not a bad goalie, just ok.

He's a top 10 goalie, you can only make the saves you face. We might not give up tons of chances but we give up really good scoring chances
 

User1996

Registered User
Jun 24, 2020
2,901
1,754
Abundantly clear that you can really only get away with having only one of Lewis, Richardson, Ritchie, or Pitlick in the lineup. Would ultimately like to add a RHS forward for this reason at the deadline. Plus a LHD puck moving defenceman for the 3rd pair.

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Coleman - Backlund - Mangiapane
Lucic - Monahan - Hinostroza/Jarnkrok
Dube - Ruzicka - Lewis

Hanifin - Andersson
Kylington - Tanev
Kulak - Gudbranson

Obviously in order to be a dangerous team I’d like to get into the Pavelski/Giordano tier of rentals, but that’s too costly IMO.
 

Fig

Absolute Horse Shirt
Dec 15, 2014
12,995
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Ive been dumping on markstrom for a while but i wouldnt say hes awful, hes just sooo average. Hes stats are getting carried by the team just like how JG carried Monahan in those years. 2nd best goalie all the time when we don't pump 5 on the other goalie and only allow 20 shots tho.

Markstrom is a model citizen. He doesn't steal things thay don't belong to the Flames.

Gotta give Marky credit where is due. It is to his credit that he leads the league in shut outs. He fits well on the Flames. Swap a top 5 goalie on the Flames and I don't think they're guaranteed more than 7 shutouts like Marky has accomplished thus far.

Carried by the team is also kinda odd. Our roster isn't stacked on paper and yet he is almost double the next goalie for shut outs? Scary to think what might have happened if Sutter coached the Peters rosters.
 

DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
22,330
6,578
I think he’s definitely struggling this year. He clearly has no confidence but he’s still creating chances. It’ll turn around for Dube at some point.

When players struggle fans tend to forget the larger body of work. We’ve seen it with pretty much everyone including Gaudreau. Dube is a good player. He just needs time to figure it out.

Trading him now is not what you do. Trading struggling players is exactly what Scottie Bowman said never to do. It’s like stocks, you don’t sell when they are in the crapper.
Well it depends. Most stocks never recover. I wouldn't give him away but I don't mind if it is an upgrade
 

DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
22,330
6,578
Markstrom is a model citizen. He doesn't steal things thay don't belong to the Flames.

Gotta give Marky credit where is due. It is to his credit that he leads the league in shut outs. He fits well on the Flames. Swap a top 5 goalie on the Flames and I don't think they're guaranteed more than 7 shutouts like Marky has accomplished thus far.

Carried by the team is also kinda odd. Our roster isn't stacked on paper and yet he is almost double the next goalie for shut outs? Scary to think what might have happened if Sutter coached the Peters rosters.
Shutouts are nice but I prefer goalies that win close games. Markstrom can be better. He is not doing well in tight games . We need that for the playoffs
 
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Fig

Absolute Horse Shirt
Dec 15, 2014
12,995
8,459
Shutouts are nice but I prefer goalies that win close games. Markstrom can be better. He is not doing well in tight games . We need that for the playoffs

Fair.

I mentioned in the GDT yesterday that I thought Markstrom reminded me of Luongo. I hated watching Luongo play, especially since we had Kipper but his stats on paper always were really damn good. Markstrom is the kind of guy that's not super hot or cold and he's logical, calculated and steady as hell. He's boring on the highlight reel unlike other goalies that constantly show up there. His play reflects the Flames more than it does him at times. You don't just luck into 7 shut outs with the next closest 2 at 4. If it was that easy, Vasi, Helle, Gibson and Saros would be up there in shut outs too. It's boring, but it ain't as easy as some of you make it out to be. Gotta give him credit where it's due.

I really don't prefer Markstrom's style either. In the unlikely event we can upgrade to a top 10 goalie that's more electrifying, I'd definitely consider it. But Markstrom is quite good. He just isn't electrifying and his failures are amplified when they occur. He doesn't play in a way that seems spirited and heated because by nature he's cold and calculated and calm like a cucumber.

I think it's fairer to say I don't prefer his play style, but that he's still ultimately a very good goalie. Perhaps many fans want an excellent and electrifying goalie instead of a very good one. Fine. But we don't have to pull Markstrom down to have that opinion.
 
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Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
21,456
11,121
Hey. Devs fan here.

What's the Flames plan this offseason in regard to Tkachuk and Gaudreau?

Keeping them both?

The fans would like to keep both.
Tkachuk has a longterm option or could do one year and walk to UFA next summer.

To be 100% honest with you. I don't think there's a fan in Calgary that knows exactly what our management staff is planning. It's a group that's had very little roadmap for the past 6 or so years.
 

Dack

Registered User
Jun 16, 2014
3,917
3,549
The 2022 1st needs to be in play for one of the high end forward rentals.

Giroux
Pavelski
Hertl

I think I'd even go as far as to trade something smaller to try and pick up a middle 6 RW as well.

I'm not a fan of buying at the deadline but this is probably our best chance to go on a run.
 

Stephen Gionta

Boston College > Boston University
Jun 15, 2015
6,302
2,390
East Rutherford, NJ
The fans would like to keep both.
Tkachuk has a longterm option or could do one year and walk to UFA next summer.

To be 100% honest with you. I don't think there's a fan in Calgary that knows exactly what our management staff is planning. It's a group that's had very little roadmap for the past 6 or so years.

Thanks.
 

crazyfisherman

Sharangovich fanboy
Sep 22, 2012
2,734
2,084
Markstrom is a model citizen. He doesn't steal things thay don't belong to the Flames.

Gotta give Marky credit where is due. It is to his credit that he leads the league in shut outs. He fits well on the Flames. Swap a top 5 goalie on the Flames and I don't think they're guaranteed more than 7 shutouts like Marky has accomplished thus far.

Carried by the team is also kinda odd. Our roster isn't stacked on paper and yet he is almost double the next goalie for shut outs? Scary to think what might have happened if Sutter coached the Peters rosters.
How impressive are shutouts when allowing barely any chances and less than 25 shots? only shutout that makes you go damn hes good was the pens game. I wont say every other goalies will get 7 but it wont be much less imo. Cant be just looking at number of shutouts but the game as well, how impressive are hattricks when 2 are empty nets. Beyond that, other than the pens game, those shutouts didnt contribute to winning, because we allowed so little and pumped the other goalie. As soon as games are close markstrom often doesnt make the saves needed. So yea, i think hes carried, gets good stats boost from when teams dominate the opposition, avg at best when dont.
 

crazyfisherman

Sharangovich fanboy
Sep 22, 2012
2,734
2,084
He's a top 10 goalie, you can only make the saves you face. We might not give up tons of chances but we give up really good scoring chances
Someones might have better stats but we gave up the 2nd lowest hdca in the league according to natural stat trick
 
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Flames Fanatic

Mediocre
Aug 14, 2008
13,369
2,910
Cochrane
The Markstrom hate in here has me absolutely scratching my head. No goalie in this league doesn't let in goals they shouldn't have. None of them. But you look around the league, and what we've had in recent years, and I think the haters are absolutely off their rockers. Is he Vezina winner? No. Is he comfortably top 15 at worst? Absolutely.
 

Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
21,456
11,121
The Markstrom hate in here has me absolutely scratching my head. No goalie in this league doesn't let in goals they shouldn't have. None of them. But you look around the league, and what we've had in recent years, and I think the haters are absolutely off their rockers. Is he Vezina winner? No. Is he comfortably top 15 at worst? Absolutely.

Sports fans have such short memories.
The sheer amount of games our goaltending has lost us since like 2013 is staggering. Like, absolutely staggering. Do people forget that Ducks series in 16-17 where Elliott literally imploded?
 

Ace Rimmer

Stoke me a clipper.
The Markstrom hate in here has me absolutely scratching my head. No goalie in this league doesn't let in goals they shouldn't have. None of them. But you look around the league, and what we've had in recent years, and I think the haters are absolutely off their rockers. Is he Vezina winner? No. Is he comfortably top 15 at worst? Absolutely.
No kidding.

I remember during the 2004 ploffs that there was an actual stat being tracked for Kipper - goals against the game after allowing four+ goals in a game. He was awesome, but had bad nights too.
 

Yepthatsme

Registered User
Oct 25, 2020
1,457
1,473
The Markstrom hate in here has me absolutely scratching my head. No goalie in this league doesn't let in goals they shouldn't have. None of them. But you look around the league, and what we've had in recent years, and I think the haters are absolutely off their rockers. Is he Vezina winner? No. Is he comfortably top 15 at worst? Absolutely.
It’s like people think a .920-.930 save percentage goalie is a guy that gets you that exact save percentage game in and game out which is blatantly false. Realistically it’s a goalie that gives you >.950 games more often than they give you <.900 games. Another problem is that Markstrom is very technically sound with great positioning. A lot of people get conditioned to think that goalies who make highlight reel saves are the best, when realistically that’s just a goalie getting caught and saving himself. Markstrom never needs to make the highlight reel save because he almost never gets caught out of position, so people associate that to “not making the big save we need”.

Nevertheless, can you imagine going back 4-5 years and telling a Flames fan that some fans are complaining about having a .923 goaltender.
 
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