Speculation: Armchair GM Thread: There are no bad proposals, only bad players

[BigRangy]

Flames and Oilers both chasing Nakladal 2.0 Jakub Rutta.

Let the overhyping commence.

If the Flames get him he will probably be awful

If the grease get him he will probably be a solid top 4 guy

The Flames cannot have nice things

 

[InfinityIggy]

Flames and Oilers both chasing Nakladal 2.0 Jakub Rutta.

Let the overhyping commence.

FWIW Rutta has much better Euro numbers than Nakladal did. Not that I really know much about Rutta.

Also Nakladal played in the AHL for the same reason he is now playing back in Europe: because he isn't good enough. Its not like he didn't get a shot on another NHL club.

 

[Mobiandi]

I figure the Oilers have the upperhand here because they can guarantee him way more icetime given their trainwreck of a defense. I'd be surprised if we're targeting him as player to slot in our top 4. Mostly likely a bottom pairing option/AHL callup option/Deryk Engelland replacement.

Also someone can correct me here if I'm wrong, but the Czech and Slovak languages can't be too different and Sekera (while injured) could help him integrate within the city and team

 

[Fig]

I figure the Oilers have the upperhand here because they can guarantee him way more icetime given their trainwreck of a defense. I'd be surprised if we're targeting him as player to slot in our top 4. Mostly likely a bottom pairing option/AHL callup option/Deryk Engelland replacement.

Also someone can correct me here if I'm wrong, but the Czech and Slovak languages can't be too different and Sekera (while injured) could help him integrate within the city and team

Smid can look him in the eye and help him integrate in city and team. Sekara injured isn't much of an advantage.

Bottom pairing duties isn't bad if he's getting used to NA sizes and speed. It gives him first shot at top 4 in case of injuries. Stone (if signed) might be the perfect guy to emulate.

I really doubt he'd emulate or replace Eggs though.

 

[Calculon]

I would expect Rutta to be utilized in the same way Nakladal was, which is to say, as a buffer. In the exceedingly unlikely situation where the Flames suffer injuries, rather than bring up a clearly unready Kylington/Mattsson/Healey/Falkovsky, etc., they call up Rutta for bottom pairing minutes or to sit in the press box. Prospects continue to "develop" undisturbed while the big club never has to deal with the horrors of youthful inexperience.

Other organizations probably won't have a problem in guaranteeing him the 6th or 7th spot in the NHL to start the season. The only thing is, right now the Flames have spots seemingly open with only three defencemen signed for next year which might guys like Rutta think they have a chance.

His youtube highlight video makes him seem pretty decent but that's obviously just snapshot. He'd probably be a better 7th than Bartkowski at least.

 

[Fig]

I think whoever performs better of Andersson or Rutta gets the 3rd pairing RD option. Light a fire under both guys, new blood etc.

He'd be an awesome option.

I'd love to think Eggs might settle for a 7th D at discounted salary role if no offers out there for him (Which I am fine with). He shared that with Wideman and Smid in previous seasons IIRC. Keep eggs as a deterrent/good locker room guy.

This does mean that 1 of TSpoon/Kulak probably must go. TSpoon might be a better partner for Rutta as a DD.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I think whoever performs better of Andersson or Rutta gets the 3rd pairing RD option. Light a fire under both guys, new blood etc.

He'd be an awesome option.

I'd love to think Eggs might settle for a 7th D at discounted salary role if no offers out there for him (Which I am fine with). He shared that with Wideman and Smid in previous seasons IIRC. Keep eggs as a deterrent/good locker room guy.

This does mean that 1 of TSpoon/Kulak probably must go. TSpoon might be a better partner for Rutta as a DD.

Also, injuries are going to be a thing. We were uncharacteristically healthy this season.

Would much rather have a guy like Andersson waiting in the wings than say, Bartkowski.

Now, of course this is contingent on Ruuta actually being a good player.

 

[Fig]

Also, injuries are going to be a thing. We were uncharacteristically healthy this season.

Would much rather have a guy like Andersson waiting in the wings than say, Bartkowski.

Now, of course this is contingent on Ruuta actually being a good player.

I've been wondering if Bart playing this season was payment/bonus for the expectations of being buried next season. IIRC, Barts has a 2 way deal. He gets less if he's in the A. I was thinking maybe playing Barts has financial implications, but the difference likely was so minute that I thought it likely wasn't a theory that held a lot of water.

Rutta at least is competition. If both Rutta and Andersson aren't up to snuff after pre-season, I assume acquiring a bottom pairing RHD shouldn't be hard. One would hope he's good enough to separate himself from Andersson though.

 

[DomBarr]

Proposal to kick things off in this thread.

B. Schenn for S. Bennett.

Sadly I already know what will be said.

Contracts aside. Bennett had a better rookie season and a better sophmore season at a younger age than Schenn did. You are now saying that Bennett will peak at B. Schenn's performance, so we should trade Bennett for Schenn because it skips further potential reduced stats while Bennett develops into a top 6 winger.

There is nothing that shows that Bennett will peak at Schenn's level of performance. He has not centered a line with true top 6 wingers nor have the Flames said wow you suck at center and converted him to a top 6 winger.
That's the reason people are against trading him for Schenn or for that matter other wingers that are comparable to Schenn.

The 2017/18 season should be used to decide what S Bennett is, a center or a winger.

That said if the Leafs were asking for Bennett plus for Marner I would be on board with that...

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

If Nakladal 2.0 wants to spend the majority of his time in the AHL. he'll sign here. If he wants to be in the NHL, he'll sign elsewhere.

Agreed. I mean look at Matt Benning and Drake Cagiulla. We'd probably be still arguing whether they deserve a shot at unseating Deryk Engelland / Lance Bouma in 2017 training camp had they come here.

 

[Lunatik]

Contracts aside. Bennett had a better rookie season and a better sophmore season at a younger age than Schenn did. You are now saying that Bennett will peak at B. Schenn's performance, so we should trade Bennett for Schenn because it skips further potential reduced stats while Bennett develops into a top 6 winger.

There is nothing that shows that Bennett will peak at Schenn's level of performance. He has not centered a line with true top 6 wingers nor have the Flames said wow you suck at center and converted him to a top 6 winger.
That's the reason people are against trading him for Schenn or for that matter other wingers that are comparable to Schenn.

The 2017/18 season should be used to decide what S Bennett is, a center or a winger.

That said if the Leafs were asking for Bennett plus for Marner I would be on board with that...

Better Sophomore season? They had the same number of points but Schenn did it in 34 fewer games. Schenn's sophomore season was significantly better at a whole year older. You are grasping at straws and failing miserably.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Have always liked dipping into the European FA pool.

If it works out you have yourself a cost controlled option, and literally no downside if they don't.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Agreed. I mean look at Matt Benning and Drake Cagiulla. We'd probably be still arguing whether they deserve a shot at unseating Deryk Engelland / Lance Bouma in 2017 training camp had they come here.

To be fair, a fair bit of that was Edmonton's vets weren't even NHL caliber in the bottom pair/bottom six, even compared to ours.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

Smid can look him in the eye and help him integrate in city and team. Sekara injured isn't much of an advantage.

Bottom pairing duties isn't bad if he's getting used to NA sizes and speed. It gives him first shot at top 4 in case of injuries. Stone (if signed) might be the perfect guy to emulate.

I really doubt he'd emulate or replace Eggs though.

Genius.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

My somewhat realistic attempt at an offseason:
Expansion Draft
VGK select Troy Brouwer and are given compensation to do so in a 2019 3rd round pick.

Trades

To STL
2017 1st - 16th overall
2017 5th - 140th overall
To CGY
2017 1st - 20th overall
2017 2nd - 51st overall

To VGK (or WSH)
2017 2nd - 51st overall (originally STL)
Oliver Kylington
Mason McDonald
To CGY
RFA Rights to Philipp Grubauer

To MTL
Lance Bouma - 50% retained
To CGY
2017 5th - 149th overall

Signings
Sam Bennett - 3yrs @ 3.5M
Micheal Ferland - 2yrs @ 2.5M
Curtis Lazar - 2yrs @ 1.5M
Alex Chiasson - 1yr @ 980K
Michael Stone - 4yrs @ 4M
Deryk Engelland - 1yr @ 1.8M (or similar veteran D)
Jan Rutta - 1yr @ 975K
Chad Johnson - 1yr @ 2.0M
Brett Kulak - 2yrs @ 925K
Tyler Wotherspoon - 1yr @ 925K
Garnet Hathaway - QO
David Rittich - QO
Jon Gillies - QO



2017-18 Opening Lineup

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Jankowski - Backlund - Frolik
Tkachuk - Bennett - Lazar
Klimchuk - Stajan - Chiasson
F. Hamilton

Giordano - D. Hamilton
Brodie - Stone
Kulak - Engelland
Wotherspoon
Rutta

Grubauer
Johnson

Another option which I know will rustle some jimmies:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Bennett
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Ferland - Jankowski - Lazar
Klimchuk - Stajan - Chiasson
F. Hamilton


Some signing and trade values may be a bit off (or a lot ), but overall I fell like its a pretty realistic offseason. I've pencilled in Klimchuk, though that spot and Chiasson's are up for grabs, though Chiasson probably has the strangle hold on it. Same with the D - Kulak and Engelland are only pencilled in. Rutta, Wotherspoon, Andersson, Engelland and Kulak are all in the running.

Roast away.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I love how Kylington is stealthmode being tossed into every trade

Kid is gonna be a top 4 defenseman at the least and likely top pair. Next year he will be playing the season comparable to most prospects' first AHL season... except he'll be pushing for an NHL spot. Kid still has acne on his face he's so young but people would toss him into a goalie trade? No way.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Oliver "Guaranteed Top Pair D" Kylington.

You heard it here first.

 

[BigRangy]

I love how Kylington is stealthmode being tossed into every trade

Kid is gonna be a top 4 defenseman at the least and likely top pair. Next year he will be playing the season comparable to most prospects' first AHL season... except he'll be pushing for an NHL spot. Kid still has acne on his face he's so young but people would toss him into a goalie trade? No way.

I have 100% confidence that Kylington can be a top 4 guy. I also have pretty much 100% confidence that the Flames are going to mess up his development. I put him in trades because I want him to be free from this miserable development system, not because I think he has no value. I'd love to see what Anaheim or Nashville could do for him.

 

[Lunatik]

Oliver "Guaranteed Top Pair D" Kylington.

You heard it here first.

Eh. I don't think he will ever be an ideal top 4 guy, I think he will be a modern day Dennis Wideman but with elite skating. Which will earn him top 4 ice-time, but most likely as a 5-6 guy with a ton of PP time.

 

[Calculon]

Nashville would probably mold Kylington into the next Josi. He's still really raw and needs to put on ton of weight/muscle to get to where he needs to be to succeed. If he can do that without it affecting his skating, the sky's the limit. And while he'll probably never be elite defensively, it's not what he was drafted for anyway.

For now, I'd rather see him fail in Calgary's developmental quagmire than succeed elsewhere.

A 2nd and MacDonald is probably fair for Grubauer; the Capitals most probably won't have the cap space to keep him if he wants any kind of raise. A ~3M offersheet which they couldn't afford to match equals a 2nd round pick and that more or less establishes his value. Adding in a quality prospect like Kylington is overkill.

Also, not a fan of trading down to recoup picks; quality owns quantity. But if Suzuki's gone, then whatever.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

while he'll probably never be elite defensively, it's not what he was drafted for anyway.

I'd wager he's ahead of Gio and Brodie at the same age in his own zone and he was arguably Stockton's best penalty killer. The only thing he struggles with defensively is turnovers behind the net and at the defensive blue line which is a very normal and overmagnified issue for 19 year old puck movers. 21YO Shea Theodore is playing 3rd pair right now and getting the trial by fire in that regard, but I think Ducks fans wouldn't be embarassed to say he's a top 4 D in his prime the way Flames fans would be to compliment one of our own players. I'd be shocked if Kylington isn't at least a Jake Gardiner in his prime.

Ironically what he isn't, is a power play specialist like Andersson or Fox.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Eh. I don't think he will ever be an ideal top 4 guy, I think he will be a modern day Dennis Wideman but with elite skating. Which will earn him top 4 ice-time, but most likely as a 5-6 guy with a ton of PP time.

I like Kylington. I think he's very much overrated by a lot of people, but I like him.

I think the odds are very small he becomes anything more than a PP guy who slots in 5/6, which isn't bad. However, the bottom line is you have to give to get, and goaltending is our biggest need long term.

Reality is we are a pretty asset poor team, when it comes to moveable pieces. I am the most willing to move Kylington out of all our top prospects - Andersson, Jankowski, Dube, Hickey, Parsons and Gillies. I'd probably consider Fox over Kylignton if the other team values them closely, and if Brad has the feeling that Hickey won't sign, I'm sure he'd also be willing to substitute him, as would I.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Nashville would probably mold Kylington into the next Josi. He's still really raw and needs to put on ton of weight/muscle to get to where he needs to be to succeed. If he can do that without it affecting his skating, the sky's the limit. And while he'll probably never be elite defensively, it's not what he was drafted for anyway.

For now, I'd rather see him fail in Calgary's developmental quagmire than succeed elsewhere.

A 2nd and MacDonald is probably fair for Grubauer; the Capitals most probably won't have the cap space to keep him if he wants any kind of raise. A ~3M offersheet which they couldn't afford to match equals a 2nd round pick and that more or less establishes his value. Adding in a quality prospect like Kylington is overkill.

Also, not a fan of trading down to recoup picks; quality owns quantity. But if Suzuki's gone, then whatever.

I absolutely thought about how fair a 2nd + McDonald for Grubauer would be, but I didn't want to come off as a homer, and am not completely sure what a late 2nd and a dime a dozen goalie prospect would be valued at league wide.

Also, trading down was not really motivated by recouping assets. It was strictly to get a asset that could then be flipped to help fill a long term hole (hopefully).

 

[lightstorm]

If we get a bargain bin goalie and only add few underwhelming AHLers from Stockton I don't see us making the playoffs next year, especially if Bishop works out in Dallas and Kopitar/Doughty remember how to hockey again.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

A bargain bin goalie? "Underwhelming AHL'ers"?

Cam Talbot was also a bargain bin goalie. Mark Jankowski was just named to the AHL Rookie team.