If this girl is from Calgary, than there is a good chance that Johnny stays in Calgary, we just have to get this girl pregnant with Johnny's baby, so even if Johnny leaves he is still paying for Alimony and child support.
Speculation: Armchair GM Thread - 2019/20 Season
- Thread starter Ace Rimmer
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If this girl is from Calgary, than there is a good chance that Johnny stays in Calgary, we just have to get this girl pregnant with Johnny's baby, so even if Johnny leaves he is still paying for Alimony and child support.
Dack
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- Jun 16, 2014
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1. RoR was traded last year for a collection of crap.
2. I don't believe that Gaudreau or Ferland were all that bad in that series, they shot 0% at 5v5 and I think that colors people opinion a lot more then what actually happened. Monahan didn't play bad in that series but I don't think he elevated his game, I think he got lucky scoring powerplay points.
There is the goals. It's a great job by him to finish but 3/4 of these goals are all but tap ins. Any NHLer could have scored these if given the same opportunity, Sean played as well as Sean plays but I'm so tired of seeing people talk about how he was a "monster" in this series. He wasn't he got a few gifts and people think that makes him a 1C.
3. I don't think we can trade Monahan for a #1C, I don't think we can trade Gaudreau for one either so the answer to me is a retool where we try and find one in the draft, building around Monahan as your 1C is a future full of mediocrity. I also said last year I would have trade Monahan for Mark Stone ( probably a slight overpayment with Stone about to be a UFA maybe we could have gotten a plus) and we might have been able to have something like this which IMO is way better than our current team.
Gaudreau-Lindholm-Stone
Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane
Dube-Bennett-Czarnik maybe?
Lucic-Ryan-Reider
Dack
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Monahan isn't a #1 center despite the point production. He relies to heavily on Gaudreau and his defence is non-existant.
Guys above him IMO (no order)
1. Bergeron
2. Point
3. Cirelli (same amount of points in less games, fantastic defensively and younger than Sean)
4. Matthews
5. Tavares
6. Barkov
7. Eichel
8. Larkin
9. Crosby
10. Malkin
11. Backstrom
12. Kuznetsov
13. Couturier
14. Dubois (younger, producing better on a team with less offensive weapons very arguable, more complete)
15. Barzal
16. Aho
17. Zibanejad
18.RoR
19. Schenn (has a real arguement now)
20. Seguin
21. Nate Mack
22. Schiefele
In a normal year Duchene has an arguement
23. E. Staal
24. Toews
25. Karlsson (arguable but Karlsson is producing similarly, has game breaking speed and a good defensive game, and on top of all that he's not even on Vegas's first powerplay)
26. McDavid
27. Draisaitl (I think he's more of a winger but when he does play C he's been far better)
28. Petterson
29. Horvat (arguable but Horvat has way worse linemate and better production, remember the Horvat vs Monahan polls?
30. Hertl (want to see a playoff beast? Watch this guy)
31. Kopitar
This leaves out tonnes of a arguable stuff, despite Lindholm being better as a winger he was a better center than Sean, Krejci has an argument for being better, Hischier is gaining on him and I'm sure once Hughes figures it out he will too. Old man Getzlaf could likely at least match Monahan numbers if given Gaudreau and Lindholm, while being more complete and physical.
Most contending teams have not one but two centers better than Sean Monahan, hell this year even with his awful start Backlund is 9 points behind Monahan and is way better defensively. Is Backlund a 1C? He's provided basically the same value Monahan has this year, 9 less points and a break even +/- ( I know, just for an in team look) vs Monahan's 9 more points but with #1PP time and a nice -20 (2nd worst for CGY forwards in terms of xGA/60 and bottom 4 in terms of GA/60, both of which his "one dimensional" linemate is better than him in, though just barely in xGA/60)
We're so far behind the 8ball if this guy is our "1C"
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
I appreciate the breakdown Dack. I will start by saying I don't really take any issue with the arguments:
1) That Monahan isn't a good enough 1C.
2) That Monahan is not a 1C by definition of there being 31 C that are arguably better than him.
Additionally to point 2, as you allude to several times in your list, a good portion of those on your list are debatably better, but not definitively better. I would add to this as well, some of them are debatably not proper centers themselves, as many positional aspects of center are covered by their linemates, see Petterson for example.
What I do take issue with, is the suggestion that Monahan should be traded because of the fact he is not an elite 1C. As well as the suggestion that he is to blame for the existing circumstance of the team, at his position. Which is a lot of what I am seeing in this thread.
The reality is that an elite 1C is not going to become available in a deal for Sean Monahan. The very best we will be able to do in that regard is to acquire a C with similar question marks to Monahan, and hope he is an improvement.
If we really want an Elite 1C there is only one way you do it: You draft one. Yes there is the very rare exception of a GM losing their marbles and trading a Seguin, or a player like ROR wanting to move on.
However we cannot wait around with this core for one to become available, and then hope we can beat out 29 other teams and actually acquire said player.
The reality is we either try to build up the forward core around these guys. It's what Treliving has been trying to do: Stone, Zucker, Kadri, Hall.
Or, you tear it all down and try to land the next phenom center.
1) That Monahan isn't a good enough 1C.
2) That Monahan is not a 1C by definition of there being 31 C that are arguably better than him.
Additionally to point 2, as you allude to several times in your list, a good portion of those on your list are debatably better, but not definitively better. I would add to this as well, some of them are debatably not proper centers themselves, as many positional aspects of center are covered by their linemates, see Petterson for example.
What I do take issue with, is the suggestion that Monahan should be traded because of the fact he is not an elite 1C. As well as the suggestion that he is to blame for the existing circumstance of the team, at his position. Which is a lot of what I am seeing in this thread.
The reality is that an elite 1C is not going to become available in a deal for Sean Monahan. The very best we will be able to do in that regard is to acquire a C with similar question marks to Monahan, and hope he is an improvement.
If we really want an Elite 1C there is only one way you do it: You draft one. Yes there is the very rare exception of a GM losing their marbles and trading a Seguin, or a player like ROR wanting to move on.
However we cannot wait around with this core for one to become available, and then hope we can beat out 29 other teams and actually acquire said player.
The reality is we either try to build up the forward core around these guys. It's what Treliving has been trying to do: Stone, Zucker, Kadri, Hall.
Or, you tear it all down and try to land the next phenom center.
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OvermanKingGainer
#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
re: Monahan / Ferland / Gaudreau in 2017
- Ferland was excellent in that series. He was unlucky not to score because of Gibson. He also didn't play on the powerplay.
- I didn't have a problem with Monahan's play 5v5 in that series, but it was hardly memorable. He was pointless 5v5.
- Gaudreau had a tough series but Gibson was again responsible for most of his struggles, and it was a small sample size of four games.
- the Ducks had some injuries on their blueline. This benefited our top Pp unit the most because Monahan was left open in the slot on most of his powerplay goals. I didn't see Monahan elevating his game the way Versteeg and Bennett did in those playoffs. Credit to him for scoring those goals but you could put 2019-20 James Neal in his spot and have the same results.
re: Dack's list of the top 31 centers
you could probably stand to include a guy like Steven Stamkos or Max Domi or Nico Hischier
- Ferland was excellent in that series. He was unlucky not to score because of Gibson. He also didn't play on the powerplay.
- I didn't have a problem with Monahan's play 5v5 in that series, but it was hardly memorable. He was pointless 5v5.
- Gaudreau had a tough series but Gibson was again responsible for most of his struggles, and it was a small sample size of four games.
- the Ducks had some injuries on their blueline. This benefited our top Pp unit the most because Monahan was left open in the slot on most of his powerplay goals. I didn't see Monahan elevating his game the way Versteeg and Bennett did in those playoffs. Credit to him for scoring those goals but you could put 2019-20 James Neal in his spot and have the same results.
re: Dack's list of the top 31 centers
you could probably stand to include a guy like Steven Stamkos or Max Domi or Nico Hischier
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SKRusty
Napalm
- Jan 20, 2016
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Dack in all those stats nothing is mentioned of the definitively different style of play Johnny and Sean have been playing for the first time this season. Johnny is not carrying the puck in near as much this year as can be shown by his 63 turnovers this year when in previous years he would be over 100. Johnny and Sean are changing their game to win and there has been growing pains. Part of the issue has been finding the right player to play on the right hand side with 6-7 different players rotated in and out.
Neither player has performed well to this point but if it is building to something better in the playoffs I am in. Would love to see a Sean, Sam and Chucky line to see what it did.
Flames Fanatic
Mediocre
It's probably worth noting that Monahan is also our leading playoff producer, since joining the league in 2014. Not Gio, not Johnny, Backlund or Tkachuk.....Monahan. Since entering the league, only 30 forwards have out produced Monahan in the regular season, 2014-2020. Some people will always hate Monahan because of the way he plays but when you hover around the top 30 producer mark, some fancy stats can be forgiven.
P.s. -Lindholm is better at RW than center and far more valuable to the Flames at that position, since we don't have any other RW's.
P.s. -Lindholm is better at RW than center and far more valuable to the Flames at that position, since we don't have any other RW's.
Dack
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They aren't changing for the better despite what you think. This team might not even be a playoff team, and if they are they have almost no offense, I respect the optimism but I think if we play a legit contender we're going to go down very quickly.
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Dack
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He has one more point than Johnny "cant perform in the playoffs Gaudreau". He's produced at a 0.65 clip in the playoffs, it's not good and it's hardly any better than Gaudreau's bad performances.
I also don't like using something like points over a specific timespan to evaluate because players get better and players decline, a good amount of the guys on my list weren't even in the league in the league in 2014.
Nanuuk
Registered User
The previous two season, Monahan was playing with injury. Pretty serious injury that limited what he could do and not do. This season he is healthier (we think) and has been better defensively. He, and the team, suffered under Bill Peters and are only now recovering under Ward. You can see it in their play. Wildly inconsistent yes, but getting better. People expect a #1C to be the play driver. Well its Gaudreau that does the driving and Monahan that does the finishing for the most part. The advent of Lindholm to the line last year gave them another driver and a finsher at the same time which is why, on the whole, they were elite last season.
Tkachuk Norris
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The problem isn’t Monahan. The problem is that a) Gaudreau was garbage at the start of the season and that b) they need a RW that has speed and can win puck battles. Only Dube and Lindholm is that but Dube isn’t quite what they need on his off wing. I wonder if a Dube-Monahan-Gaudreau line would work though.
Monahan and Gaudreau look a lot better. They are turning it around. People are just piling on at this point.
I like our team. We have more depth this year and I think we are due for a breakout in the playoffs. Even my optimism was fading at points but I think this team has played a lot better going back to the trip to Eastern Canada. The Flames obviously layed an egg in 3 of those games. But I think we, as Canadian fan bases, hyper focus on that instead of looking at the fact this team is starting to look like the team we saw last year pre all star break.
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OvermanKingGainer
#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Bennett has 11 points in 275 minutes. And over half those games were as a teenager.
Monahan has 13 points in 383 minutes including primo PP1 time
Brodie has to be all but done with Calgary at this point. Seriously, the flames just seem to be all but ready to give him up at this time.
Given the crap from fans the last few years and him being all but out the door this past summer, I’d guess he isn’t all that interesting in an extension, or at least any sort of hometown discount (and I don’t blame him at all for that). That’s part of the damage that comes from unsuccessfully trading a third of your roster and then these things leaking out (I’m sure Hanifin was giddy when he found out he was almost traded to jersey too).
Also says something Toronto has shown 0 interest in hammer despite him being a supposed “better fit” with his grit and being an actual rhs.
Given the crap from fans the last few years and him being all but out the door this past summer, I’d guess he isn’t all that interesting in an extension, or at least any sort of hometown discount (and I don’t blame him at all for that). That’s part of the damage that comes from unsuccessfully trading a third of your roster and then these things leaking out (I’m sure Hanifin was giddy when he found out he was almost traded to jersey too).
Also says something Toronto has shown 0 interest in hammer despite him being a supposed “better fit” with his grit and being an actual rhs.
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
Consider that Tre might be looking to move Brodie because of contract demands.
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
His reasons for the demands are irrelevant if the Flames can’t meet them, is the point. It’s why they might seek to trade him. Whether his demands are ‘fair’ or not.
SKRusty
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I have no doubt that Tre kicked the tires on re-signing both Brodie and Hamonic last summer. The reality is there is a cap and some younger players able to fill these guys roles. That and Tre doesn't need to protect either this way in the expansion draft.
Mobiandi
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- Jan 17, 2015
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And yet they seem giddy to re-sign hammer despite contract talks also going awful on that front...
Yeah, I’m sick and tired of this team making the same damned mistakes. Hopefully both walk in this circumstance if that is the case.
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
MakeCgyGreatAgain
Registered User
His agent would be asking for more. This is his time to get paid.
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
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