Proposal: Are you in favour of trading Brock Boeser?

Would you be in favour of trading Brock Boeser?

  • Yes

    Votes: 153 67.7%
  • No

    Votes: 35 15.5%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 38 16.8%

  • Total voters
    226

pitseleh

Registered User
Jul 30, 2005
19,164
2,613
Vancouver
Yeah, you can't really have this conversation without acknowledging that Boeser has a 4% on-ice SH%. League average is closer to 7.5%. Boeser's career average is closer to 10% over~250 games, in part due to his shooting talent.

Even if you assume his shot is not what it once was, you should be regressing toward the mean when assessing what you expect him to do going forward. Not even bad fourth liners maintain on-ice SH%s that low. Assuming league average on-ice SH%, and all else being equal, he'd have another 10 points. I think the question is whether you can expect him to be league average-ish or not going forward - its the difference between him being a 70 point a year player and a 55-60 point a year player.
 

Bojack Horvatman

IAMGROOT
Jun 15, 2016
4,112
7,232
Why does the most recent sample size outweigh 4 straight past seasons? I wouldn't want to pay Kadri based on this season versus his past 4 seasons.

Boeser paced 46 even strength points per 82 games as an average of his last four seasons prior to this one. For reference, Miller has paced 47.5 even strength points per 82 games as a Canuck. General aging curves don't predict a 50% drop in production at 24 years old, it seems like a big stretch to predict even a smaller drop to 30ish even strength points going forward.

For the cap hit, I also don't see why we can't give him the worst case scenario 7.5Mx1 now that we're selling Miller et al for futures resolving the immediate cap crunch.

I agree that he looks very bad right now. He's a streaky player and we've seen him go through long stretches of looking like shit before this one. It makes you wonder about his offseason program and effort, which in addition to the other problems with him as a player is another reason I want to trade him.

I just don't see the urgency to sell low. If he is an excellent bounce back candidate then the worst case scenario of a 7.5M 1 year contract still generates a better trade return next year at the deadline with retention than we're expecting now.

I actually don't know if he get more in a trade in this scenario. The reason being we might be able to get a good deal for Boeser from a team like New Jersey, Ottawa, or Buffalo if Boeser has 2 RFA years left. However they may not want to trade for Boeser if he is a year from UFA, even if he does rebound.

If we can use are cap space better next year and Boeser doesn't have much value this year, than bringing back Boeser to see if he can rebound is probably the best option.
 

tyhee

Registered User
Feb 5, 2015
2,555
2,637
...
We all know Brock loves it here. He's been upset in the past when asked about trade rumours.

Actually, we don't all know Brock loves it in Vancouver. Even if it were true earlier, it may not be true now.

When he started his career, there were some things to really like. Benning pursued him, burned a year off his elc and he was effective immediately. He'd been given a great chance and made good use of it.

Since the summer of 2020 I doubt very many Canucks have liked it in Vancouver. As a group they seemed downheartened when the team lost Tanev, Markstrom, Toffoli and Stecher all for nothing, in some cases reportedly without any offers being made. The players, imo, saw the situation for what it was, saw that the team management was incompetent and they were looking at a bad future.

That became somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy. When a team is down and feeling like things are hopeless, they are hopeless. Of course, they may have been right anway.

The change in management and coaching spurred a turn-around, but realistically, from Boeser's perspective:

-things aren't going well for him in Vancouver
-it wouldn't be surprising to see the team lose it's best forward this summer
-Horvat hasn't been playing with the interest he showed in previous seasons, ditto for Boeser, ditto for EP. While there was a bump after the changeover, after the 1-0 loss to a tired Flames team in which the team looked disinterested and Boudreau openly criticized Miller's effort on the losing goal as unacceptable, is there any reason to think any of them really want to be here?

I don't think so.

On a completely separate point (so not in response to the post I quoted above) I also don't think it is realistic, as some posters have suggested, to view 2023 as a contending year for the Canucks. That just seems like Benning Koolaid, ya know-2 years. Unless Rutherford and Allvin get very lucky indeed, it is going to be longer than that before the Canucks can contend, possibly much, much longer. It seems to me there are quite a few posters underestimating, by a lot, the damage that has been done by the Canucks' management the past few years.

And, on a completely different point, when I was a kid in the 1960's, a hockey trade gave you the player for the rest of the player's career. There was no free agency and salaries were relatively low. A trade could be effectively analyzed without regard to the contract the player was on at the time, at least before the WHA opened for business in 1972. Things are different now. You don't trade for the right to have the player toil underpaid for the rest of his career. You acquire the player's contract.

That requires a different analysis. Some still judge contracts solely by the usefulness of a player on the ice, when in most cases the player's contract is at least as important as his play. The trade value of a player depends on team circumstances but starts with the value of the player's contribution relative to his contract.

With Boeser being paid $7.5 million and guaranteed $7.5 million or able to go to free agency this summer, his contract really isn't worth much to an acquiring team. It seems the Canucks have an unpalatable choice-trade Boeser's contract for what it is worth-which is very, very little, gamble on him making a comeback and give him $7.5 million for a year, or let him go elsewhere for no return.

The previous management has really left a horrid choice for the new management team, which is facing a tough decision and potential public relations nightmare.
 
Last edited:

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,611
84,136
Vancouver, BC
Why does the most recent sample size outweigh 4 straight past seasons? I wouldn't want to pay Kadri based on this season versus his past 4 seasons.

Boeser paced 46 even strength points per 82 games as an average of his last four seasons prior to this one. For reference, Miller has paced 47.5 even strength points per 82 games as a Canuck. General aging curves don't predict a 50% drop in production at 24 years old, it seems like a big stretch to predict even a smaller drop to 30ish even strength points going forward.

For the cap hit, I also don't see why we can't give him the worst case scenario 7.5Mx1 now that we're selling Miller et al for futures resolving the immediate cap crunch.

I agree that he looks very bad right now. He's a streaky player and we've seen him go through long stretches of looking like shit before this one. It makes you wonder about his offseason program and effort, which in addition to the other problems with him as a player is another reason I want to trade him.

I just don't see the urgency to sell low. If he is an excellent bounce back candidate then the worst case scenario of a 7.5M 1 year contract still generates a better trade return next year at the deadline with retention than we're expecting now.

I'm not totally disregarding the previous 4 seasons. If I was doing that I'd be arguing that Boeser was a Michel Ouellet-type slow PP specialist who barely belongs in the NHL.

But the most recent season is obviously the most important. And he looks terrible. And he's had injuries.

I don't think 'Oh, I expect he'll just totally rebound to his previous levels like this season never happened' is anywhere near the most likely outcome here. And even if he did? He's still mediocre value at $7.5 million.
 

Hoglander

I'm Höglander. I can do whatever I want.
Jan 4, 2019
1,587
2,619
Midtown, New York
His footspeed is really bad, and if we aren't going to make use of his 1 timer on the pp, then he isn't going to be worth his next contract. Not sure why they gave his PP spot to Miller, when jtm looked great as the net presence during his first year in van-the last time our pp looked legit good.
 
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F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,714
5,952
I'm not totally disregarding the previous 4 seasons. If I was doing that I'd be arguing that Boeser was a Michel Ouellet-type slow PP specialist who barely belongs in the NHL.

But the most recent season is obviously the most important. And he looks terrible. And he's had injuries.

I don't think 'Oh, I expect he'll just totally rebound to his previous levels like this season never happened' is anywhere near the most likely outcome here. And even if he did? He's still mediocre value at $7.5 million.

I think the issue with Boeser is that anything that affects his skating and he's rendered practically useless. He did have a poor season in 19-20 and bounced back with a solid season last year. When healthy and playing with a linemate who can get him the puck in scoring position I think you'll see Boeser score at his previously usual 30+ goal clip.
 

CherryToke

Registered User
Oct 18, 2008
26,735
8,218
Coquitlam
I was in favor of trading him years ago when he was worth something. Now I'm just hoping that we aren't stuck with his bloated contract..

He's not worth jack shit now.

Feels like we had a $30 stock that's worth about $2 now

The Canucks way
 

Blue and Green

Out to lunch
Dec 17, 2017
3,438
3,415
With Boeser being paid $7.5 million and guaranteed $7.5 million or able to go to free agency this summer, his contract really isn't worth much to an acquiring team.

Boeser is not guaranteed $7.5M next season. A team can take a player to arbitration once in his career instead of tendering a QO.
 
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Tomatoes11

Registered User
Dec 25, 2021
1,595
994
Boeser is not guaranteed $7.5M next season. A team can take a player to arbitration once in his career instead of tendering a QO.

He took a haircut already last contract . If we force him to take another I am guessing there will be bad blood anyways.

You guys forget that his sick father told him to just sign last time when he wanted to hold out for more. He’s not doing it again I would think. 7.5 or requesting a trade probably.
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,714
5,952
He took a haircut already last contract . If we force him to take another I am guessing there will be bad blood anyways.

You guys forget that his sick father told him to just sign last time when he wanted to hold out for more. He’s not doing it again I would think. 7.5 or requesting a trade probably.

He did NOT take a haircut in his last contract. It was an expensive bridge. And things change. When Boeser signed his last contract he looked like a perennial 30 goal scorer. This time around he doesn't.
 

Tomatoes11

Registered User
Dec 25, 2021
1,595
994
He did NOT take a haircut in his last contract. It was an expensive bridge. And things change. When Boeser signed his last contract he looked like a perennial 30 goal scorer. This time around he doesn't.

Yes he did. He could have easily gotten more and was going to hold out for it.

Report: Boeser eyeing four-year, $28M deal - TSN.ca

He wanted 7 and honestly should have gotten it but his sick dad told him to remember who developed you and believed in you etc.

The story should be easy to find yourself.

He’s not taking another pay cut I can tell you that. I know you like to believe you are right just because you rather keep him but that’s not how the world works.
 

geebster

Registered User
Sponsor
Oct 26, 2019
1,864
2,811
He took a haircut already last contract . If we force him to take another I am guessing there will be bad blood anyways.

You guys forget that his sick father told him to just sign last time when he wanted to hold out for more. He’s not doing it again I would think. 7.5 or requesting a trade probably.

While he did sign for less last time (dont think that's really under dispute), in my mind he is worth less now than he was then. He has had trouble being consistent and in the long stretches of time that he isnt scoring he can be a liability with the puck. He also isnt putting up huge overall numbers either.

While 7 last time in that market wouldve made sense, 7.5 now for his work since actually seems high.

I mean I like Boeser, I like Horvat, I like most of the guys in this group, but ultimately they will have to make a move in the off season to open up some space, and they also need to address depth as well. It sucks but if they trade Boeser and we are better for it in a year then it's worth it, even though I like the kid.
 

Tomatoes11

Registered User
Dec 25, 2021
1,595
994
While he did sign for less last time (dont think that's really under dispute), in my mind he is worth less now than he was then. He has had trouble being consistent and in the long stretches of time that he isnt scoring he can be a liability with the puck. He also isnt putting up huge overall numbers either.

While 7 last time in that market wouldve made sense, 7.5 now for his work since actually seems high.

I mean I like Boeser, I like Horvat, I like most of the guys in this group, but ultimately they will have to make a move in the off season to open up some space, and they also need to address depth as well. It sucks but if they trade Boeser and we are better for it in a year then it's worth it, even though I like the kid.

Yes, that’s exactly why we have to trade him at the deadline when you have willing participants that can justify ignoring the off-season stuff(namely the 7.5 QO)for now. He’s going to be worth less when the team is finished with the playoffs and the 7.5 QO sticks out like a sore thumb.
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,714
5,952
Yes he did. He could have easily gotten more and was going to hold out for it.

Report: Boeser eyeing four-year, $28M deal - TSN.ca

He wanted 7 and honestly should have gotten it but his sick dad told him to remember who developed you and believed in you etc.

The story should be easy to find yourself.

He’s not taking another pay cut I can tell you that. I know you like to believe you are right just because you rather keep him but that’s not how the world works.

I don’t think you know what taking a pay cut means. Boeser ended up taking less term and therefore less money than he wanted. That’s not taking a haircut or paycut. He was an RFA with no arbitration or offer sheet rights.
 

Tomatoes11

Registered User
Dec 25, 2021
1,595
994
I don’t think you know what taking a pay cut means. Boeser ended up taking less term and therefore less money than he wanted. That’s not taking a haircut or paycut. He was an RFA with no arbitration or offer sheet rights.

Lol taking less money than he wanted isn’t the exact definition of a taking pay cut? You are hilarious.
 

PuckMunchkin

Very Nice, Very Evil!
Dec 13, 2006
12,378
10,038
Lapland
He did NOT take a haircut in his last contract. It was an expensive bridge. And things change. When Boeser signed his last contract he looked like a perennial 30 goal scorer. This time around he doesn't.

He is averaging just a hair above 30 goals per 82 games played.
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,714
5,952
Lol taking less money than he wanted isn’t the exact definition of a taking pay cut? You are hilarious.

Lol. You just proved my point. You have no idea what taking a pay cut means. Taking less money than he wanted IS NOT the exact definition of taking a pay cut.
 
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Just A Bit Outside

Playoffs??!
Mar 6, 2010
16,515
15,403
To think he's 24 how slow will he be in 4-5 years??
OIF.hEOSXX7yAg6cGVWMSfalpw
 

Tomatoes11

Registered User
Dec 25, 2021
1,595
994
Lol. You just proved my point. You have no idea what taking a pay cut means. Taking less money than he wanted IS NOT the exact definition of taking a pay cut.

I didn’t prove anything for you. Whatever definition you want to choose he took less pay to sign with us.

He took less term , less annual pay, and less money overall. Lol You don’t take more of a hair cut than that.

If you are playing your ridiculous semantics like that the only definition of a pay cut is taking less than his elc then thats just stupid . Go read the dictionary. It’s a broader term than that. Lol it’s says reducing pay or Salary it doesn’t say reduce from your previous contract. Lol
 
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F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,714
5,952
I didn’t prove anything for you. Whatever definition you want to choose he took less pay to sign with us.

He took less term , less annual pay, and less money overall. Lol You don’t take more of a hair cut than that.

If you are playing your ridiculous semantics like that the only definition of a pay cut is taking less than his elc then thats just stupid . Go read the dictionary. It’s a broader term than that. Lol it’s says reducing pay or Salary it doesn’t say reduce from your previous contract. Lol

Lol taking less money than he wanted isn’t the exact definition of a taking pay cut? You are hilarious.

What's hilarious here is that you're totally lost here and fail to see that you're wrong. Accusing me of being hilarious or using ridiculous semantics just makes you look silly. :rolleyes:

Using your definition, everyone took a pay cut to sign here. Are you saying well done Jim Benning? According to you, Myers took a "pay cut" to sign here. So did Eriksson. So did Roussel and Beagle. That's what you're saying here which is just stupid.
 

tyhee

Registered User
Feb 5, 2015
2,555
2,637
Boeser is not guaranteed $7.5M next season. A team can take a player to arbitration once in his career instead of tendering a QO.

Good point. The Canucks could take him to arbitration without making a qualifying offer. If the arbitration award was higher than the team would be prepared to pay, the Canucks could walk away, making him a free agent-so he's entitled to a minimum of $6.375 million (the minimum allowable arbitration award-85% of his salary this season) or free agency this summer.

It's an improvement, though still a drag on the value of his contract to a team acquiring him at this season's trade deadline.
 

iceburg

Don't ask why
Aug 31, 2003
7,638
4,003
With respect, this is an unreasonable question. Of course the answer is yes if the return is appropriate. It's like saying, if you could buy a condo in Vancouver, would you? If it was for $3 dollars, of course you would. If it was for $30M dollars the answer is no.
 

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