Proposal: Are you in favor of trading Bo Horvat?

Would you trade Bo Horvat?


  • Total voters
    246

kaczor

Registered User
Jul 3, 2005
444
72
NZ
We’ve gone through a GM and few coaches but consistently we see themes in how we play and at some point, some of it does have to come down to the players as well. I can’t speak to the locker room culture obviously but it’s clear this main group isn’t and hasn’t been working. Something feels off and I don’t want to blame it all on Horvat but the more I watch, the more I wonder what he actually brings and if we might win with him. His play is up and down but he doesn’t play with any emotion or (save for like one bubble series) elevate his game. How do we consistently shit the bed in new ways and have no accountability from the core group of players? Horvat has come out with the same robotic answers about being ready to play and “accountability” but will continue to put up poor stat lines and two games later we don’t come out ready to play. In an important game against the Ducks where we got physically dominated, Horvat lays an egg and doesn’t throw a single registered hit. Pull your damn team into the fight instead of whatever performance he gave us. I don’t know what it is, but we do need a bit of a cultural reset.

Perhaps we are arguing semantics, but I see no evidence that the culture is the problem. At the end of the day, the lack of performance could be due to many other things, such as a poor choice of a system for the roster we have, shit coaching, etc etc. I definitely agree with you regarding Horvat's lack of passion (as displayed in interviews).

Yup, changes are needed, but I don't like to jump to conclusions about the group culture. As you said, we don't know what goes on in the locker room.
 

Ninjadude

Registered User
Oct 25, 2018
358
268
There are 2 or 3 players that are untouchables, but everyone else can be traded if the price is right….this isn’t news to anyone.
 

HeLord

Registered User
Feb 19, 2022
123
100
For the right price, sure. But, unlike some morons in our fanbase, I don't want to see him traded because I think he sucks or anything. He is a great player and great captain, and the haters can suck it if they don't like it!
 

VanJack

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
21,385
14,658
I really wonder if Horvat's game will age very well.....he's a hard, physical player and by the time he hits 30, the bottom might drop out of the bag. Even now, he goes through bouts of 10 games where he generates next to nothing.

He'll could be due a significant raise on his next contract, and Rutherford is trying to open up cap space. A trade doesn't seem as unlikely as it used to be.
 
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DonnyNucker

Registered User
Mar 28, 2017
4,002
2,896
I really wonder if Horvat's game will age very well.....he's a hard, physical player and by the time he hits 30, the bottom might drop out of the bag. Even now, he goes through bouts of 10 games where he generates next to nothing.

He'll could be due a significant raise on his next contract, and Rutherford is trying to open up cap space. A trade doesn't seem as unlikely as it used to be.
Horvat is a hard physical player?
 
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Regress2TheMeme

Registered User
Mar 14, 2018
1,036
1,157
It's important not to fall into the trap of thinking now is the new forever. You see it after every win and loss. Team wins and people are like "you know, maybe these guys do have what it takes..." and then they lose a game and people want to blow it up right now, then they win a game...

There are lots of reasons why players can go from looking great one year, to awful the next. Something is definitely not right with Horvat at the moment. He certainly shouldn't be untouchable, but teams need centers. He shouldn't be unloaded if we're dealing Miller. If Miller decides he wants to stay then it makes sense to move Horvat.
 

shottasasa

Registered User
Nov 16, 2011
877
723
Canada
I absolutely wouldn't trade Horvat at the deadline or in the summer. I would like him to be a bit more aggressive in the physical stuff but I think he's in the Sedin mold as a captain (no surprise) and that has a lot of benefits too. Calm leaders who bring stability to a team/organisation are somewhat undervalued imo. Someone else can be the rah-rah voice, it doesn't need to be the captain. If the leader/captain tries to push people's buttons to get them going too often it usually eventually leads to some pretty ugly divides. For instance, I would never want JT Miller as the captain of my team. I want him (or guys like him) on my team to be vocal and maybe have an A, but I don't want my captain to have a volatile temperament.

When Horvat is on, he has the ability to be a one-man possession machine below the goal line and is valuable in a number of ways. Something hasn't been right with him in the last month or so but I'm not about to give up on him. He's been great in the playoffs when he gets the opportunity and I firmly believe he has the game to succeed when the refs swallow their whistles. And finding 60-point centres is really hard and I simply don't see them being able to retain Miller. If however a reasonable contract can't be worked out with him before the next trade deadline then it's time to move on. He'd be ridiculously valuable at that point for a contender looking to make a run.
 
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tantalum

Hope for the best. Expect the worst
Sponsor
Apr 2, 2002
25,140
14,010
Missouri
I think there is a chance both Horvat and Miller are moved.

I strongly suspect Miller is moved first. I’ll be surprised if he is a canuck a few weeks from now to be honest. The only way he stays is if the Canucks are willing to hand out a massive contract extension in the summer. I don’t see why they’d do that when Rutherford has been very vocal about opening up cap space. I also don’t see why Miller would sign any contract before getting a read on the 23-24 and beyond salary cap.

Horvat I think they lean towards keeping but he’s not unloveable by any stretch of the imagination.
 

canuckfan75

Registered User
Jan 14, 2014
2,369
885
I would trade both Miller and Horvat. but I would keep both into next year and make sure I get 1st round picks in 2023 . the team needs to be competive or at least seem competative to make the Family happy
 

Wo Yorfat

dumb person
Nov 7, 2016
2,962
3,924
Fine trading him. By the time we dig out of the Benning crater, Bo will be on a retirement contract.
 

Zippgunn

Registered User
May 15, 2011
4,002
1,692
Lhuntshi
I absolutely wouldn't trade Horvat at the deadline or in the summer. I would like him to be a bit more aggressive in the physical stuff but I think he's in the Sedin mold as a captain (no surprise) and that has a lot of benefits too. Calm leaders who bring stability to a team/organisation are somewhat undervalued imo. Someone else can be the rah-rah voice, it doesn't need to be the captain. If the leader/captain tries to push people's buttons to get them going too often it usually eventually leads to some pretty ugly divides. For instance, I would never want JT Miller as the captain of my team. I want him (or guys like him) on my team to be vocal and maybe have an A, but I don't want my captain to have a volatile temperament.

When Horvat is on, he has the ability to be a one-man possession machine below the goal line and is valuable in a number of ways. Something hasn't been right with him in the last month or so but I'm not about to give up on him. He's been great in the playoffs when he gets the opportunity and I firmly believe he has the game to succeed when the refs swallow their whistles. And finding 60-point centres is really hard and I simply don't see them being able to retain Miller. If however a reasonable contract can't be worked out with him before the next trade deadline then it's time to move on. He'd be ridiculously valuable at that point for a contender looking to make a run.

Replacing what he brings to the table would be very difficult. I say keep him unless somebody is willing to overpay...
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,747
5,968
I think there is a chance both Horvat and Miller are moved.

I strongly suspect Miller is moved first. I’ll be surprised if he is a canuck a few weeks from now to be honest. The only way he stays is if the Canucks are willing to hand out a massive contract extension in the summer. I don’t see why they’d do that when Rutherford has been very vocal about opening up cap space. I also don’t see why Miller would sign any contract before getting a read on the 23-24 and beyond salary cap.

Horvat I think they lean towards keeping but he’s not unloveable by any stretch of the imagination.

I would be VERY surprised if both Horvat and Miller are moved. Who's going to play 2C behind Petey? Zacha? I'm not sure if there is a team with a promising young C who is looking to acquire Horvat or Miller.

From the rumours, it doesn't sound like Horvat is being shopped. And I won't be surprised if teams are calling on Miller instead. Think about it. Miller makes less this year and next and is the superior player both at C and on the wing. Miller can also have a PP run through him if needed. It doesn't make sense for a team looking to contend this year and next to target Horvat instead. I guess i can see Calgary dumping Monahan onto us but after the Toffoli trade they likely don't have this year's 1st.

This kind of brings me back to to OP's question. I've kind of waffled back and forth but right now, I'm leaning towards extending Miller and trading Horvat instead of that is realistically doable. It's clear that Miller is the superior player and while Horvat is younger, Miller is likely going to the superior player over the next few years. I'm also not sure that Horvat will necessary age as well as Miller or better (given that he is 2 years younger). BUT I don't think that's doable. I think Horvat would be more affordable and easier to extend.

As for Miller signing an extension, I don't see why he would refuse to sign an extension because he wants to wait and see where the cap is at. I never understood this take. It's not that difficult to realistically project what he can sign for a year from now. I fully expect his agent to be competent enough to do so. Meanwhile, he is coming off a season where his value (barring a serious injury) is at high. While he has never been a UFA and might be interested in the process, he could easily have a down year next season or worse suffer a serious injury.

Like I said before, Landeskog signed for 8x$7M. That would be a good comparable. If I was Miller, I would look at $7M AAV as the minimum on at least a 6 year contract. Blake Coleman (same agent) signed for 6x$4.9M. Duchene signed for 7x$8M prior to covid.

I think it's clear that the Canucks would be lucky if they can extend Miller and no make him the highest paid forward before Petey's next contract. Quite frankly, he deserves it. The question is whether the Canucks are better off just trading him now when he seems to be at his height of his value.
 

Paradise Circus

Registered User
May 27, 2010
1,369
1,851
YVR
Didn’t know where to put this but Horvat just mentioned he looked up to Mike Richards, Toews and Crosby growing up
 

nuxnuxnux

Registered User
May 15, 2011
630
449
Horvat isn’t the type of player to age all that well, if it was a reasonable trade I’d take it. Obviously I don’t wanna boot him out of town for scraps but I’m not high on this player at all and would do something like horvat+myers for a youngish top 4 d in a heart beat.
 

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