Are the lightning a superteam?

[Sgt Schultz]

My bar for a super team is based on the late 70's Canadiens, early 8'0s Islanders , and then mid-late 80's Oilers.

The Canadiens of that era won four consecutive Cups and only lost three games in the finals of those four trips. They were probably to most talented and disciplined team, top to bottom, that I have seen. They were a great team and made it look like another day at the office.

This Islanders followed the Canadiens' reign, and matched their Cup total and finals record of only three losses in four trips.

The Oilers won four Cups in five seasons, and five over seven seasons.

These were teams that were consistently on another level during their reigns. I'm not a Lightning basher by any stretch, and I think they are an incredibly talented team. But one or two Cups is not going to elevate them to the three I mentioned, who were back to back to back. I'm not sure it is possible to assemble and keep a team together long enough to match the three I mentioned, given the cap and free agency.

 

[BlueMed]

Like I posted in the GDT, they're a team so well built that they can play any sort of style and still win. I think Tampa is the only team in the NHL today that can claim that, I don't even think Vegas falls in that category.

There aren't many teams that can do that, hell even a lot of cup winning teams couldn't even do that. A lot of cup teams are built to 1 specific attribute that they're so good that they can just dominate with it. Look at the cup winners before Tampa, I feel like those 3 teams (St. Louis, Washington and Pittsburgh) just maximized 1 or 2 attributes and rode those to the cup. But Tampa has maximized seemingly all of their attributes, to the point where they can win any sort of game that may arise. The 2016-2017 Penguins, 2018 Capitals and 2019 Blues didn't have the extreme versatility that the 2021 Lightning do.

The 2019 Blues wouldn't have won the cup had they had a matchup that turned games into end to end offensive games. The 2018 Caps wouldn't have won the cup had they had a matchup that turned games into all speed and little physicality matchups. The 2016 and 2017 Penguins wouldn't have won the cup had they had a matchup that turned those games into slower, physical games. With Tampa, I think they can win with any of those changes just because of how well built they are.

Tampa excels at all aspects of the game? They may have the speed and skill reminiscent of Pittsburgh, but don't have the physicality that Washington, St. Louis, or LA had.

 

[metalan2]

Well depends how you look at it. In this scenario are we replacing Vasi with an average starter or Curtis McElhinney?

If it's say Elvis Merzlikins they're still very good. If it's McBackup they get bounced first round.

No, a decent starter. Theyd still be bounced in my opinion.

 

[Chips]

People exaggerate a bit. They’re at the top, but they’re not a full tier or anything above the next best teams, they’re playing confident right now but their goalie has kept them alive when they could have lost some games. They were swept a couple years ago round one.

they lost the top seed and home ice in general in the regular season

People keep trying to equate money with skill, they were millions and millions cheaper with the same team last season. They’re aren’t suddenly way better than they were last year lol. They’re an amazing, beatable but veteran team with several years of deep-playoff experience keeping them calm and confident when misfortune like awful calls happen to them. They know enough to always stay in it.

 

[Sentinel]

I thought you are some american fan of russian hockey, but then i seen your posts on фнх. If you russian then wtf with your pic, that is pretty shitty combination

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

They have the best winger, defenseman and goalie in the League (at least arguably). They have two great Centers, a ton of depth. Are they a modern day “super team”?

They're about as good a team as you can assemble. And - as has been noted - even beyond what can be assembled. Just an awesome team.

I think they are a tier above everyone.

 

[BlueMed]

They're about as good a team as you can assemble. And - as has been noted - even beyond what can be assembled. Just an awesome team.

I think they are a tier above everyone.

They are a tier above everyone currently, but that's not saying much. The current lightning team would get bounced in 6 games by the prime Blackhawks or Kings.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

They are a tier above everyone currently, but that's not saying much. The current lightning team would get bounced in 6 games by the prime Blackhawks or Kings.

I don’t think so. Better netminding than Chicago and better offense than LA.

 

[BlueMed]

I don’t think so. Better netminding than Chicago and better offense than LA.

See, it's not so much about comparing the players on paper as much as how they played as a team. Those Chicago and LA teams simply had more resilience and fight. It didn't matter if you you were up 3-0 against them because you knew they were never truly eliminated until that handshake line.

 

[PettersonHughes]

Like I posted in the GDT, they're a team so well built that they can play any sort of style and still win. I think Tampa is the only team in the NHL today that can claim that, I don't even think Vegas falls in that category.

There aren't many teams that can do that, hell even a lot of cup winning teams couldn't even do that. A lot of cup teams are built to 1 specific attribute that they're so good that they can just dominate with it. Look at the cup winners before Tampa, I feel like those 3 teams (St. Louis, Washington and Pittsburgh) just maximized 1 or 2 attributes and rode those to the cup. But Tampa has maximized seemingly all of their attributes, to the point where they can win any sort of game that may arise. The 2016-2017 Penguins, 2018 Capitals and 2019 Blues didn't have the extreme versatility that the 2021 Lightning do.

The 2019 Blues wouldn't have won the cup had they had a matchup that turned games into end to end offensive games. The 2018 Caps wouldn't have won the cup had they had a matchup that turned games into all speed and little physicality matchups. The 2016 and 2017 Penguins wouldn't have won the cup had they had a matchup that turned those games into slower, physical games. With Tampa, I think they can win with any of those changes just because of how well built they are.

I'm curious as to how much of that versatility they could retain after this offseason. Most of the grit and two-way play emerged due to them acquiring the likes of Coleman and Goodrow (both now UFA), as well as having Killorn, Cirelli, Gourde and the emergence of the likes of Ross Colton. Depending on how much they're forced to shed after keeping Kucherov/ Point/ Stamkos/ Cirelli and the rest of the roster that they do, they could lose a fair bit of that edge that would make them not outright stacked anymore.

 

[PettersonHughes]

See, it's not so much about comparing the players on paper as much as how they played. Those Chicago and LA teams simply had more resilience and fight. It didn't matter if you you were up 3-0 against them because you knew they were never truly eliminated until that handshake line.

If you're talking about resilience, TB exorcised their demons last season by eliminating the teams that beat them previously, so this speedy group is hardly a bunch of pushovers.

 

[CapSpace]

They're about as good a team as you can assemble. And - as has been noted - even beyond what can be assembled. Just an awesome team.

I think they are a tier above everyone.

A tier over the salary cap, yes.

 

[ClydeLee]

Sports terminology is always silly to me as it goes in waves from time to time but what is this use of the term SuperTeam based on?

When I think super team, I think the modern NBA where you have Superstars coellect on 1 team to play together. Or what the NHL had in the early 2000s with the 2002 Redwings and 04 Avs. Those were superteams.

The only guy that fits the idea on the Lightning was McDonough. So no. Other key pieces they added recently like Goodrow or Coleman were not stars that count to it.

Vegas has the most SuperTeam vibe of any team currently. The expansion helped that of course but the Stone/Patches/Petrangelo additions are what make it the super team.

 

[tapi]

They have that extra advantage with the 20% cap on a Cup-winning team from the last year, which is HUGE. They should be dominating the Isles but as it stands they seem to be under performing for whatever reason. They certainly have a superteam roster but are not playing up to the expectations.

 

[BlueMed]

If you're talking about resilience, TB exorcised their demons last season by eliminating the teams that beat them previously, so this speedy group is hardly a bunch of pushovers.

That's nothing compared to what LA and Chicago had. Both teams went down 2-0 against STL, only to win 4 straight. LA actually went down 3-0 against the Sharks, and won 4 straight to complete the reverse sweep. In 2013, Chicago was down 2-1 against Boston in game 6 with 2 minutes to go and not only tied the game but won the game and cup. The most epic recent series was Chicago vs LA in 2014. LA went up 3-1, Chicago ties the series 3-3, and in Game 7: Chicago goes up 2-0, LA then ties it 2-2, Chicago takes the lead 3-2, LA ties it, Chicago makes it 4-3, then LA ties it 4-4 and Alec Martinez wins it in OT. In 2015, Chicago played against Anaheim in the WCF, and in game 5, Toews scores 2 goals in the last 2 minutes to tie the game and send it into OT. Anaheim ended up winning that game, but Chicago still came back and won the series despite being down 3-2. The very next series, Chicago was down 2-1 against Tampa in the finals but then pushed back and won 3 straight to get the cup.

Tampa has speed and skill, but they don't have that clutch factor and resilience that these two teams had.

 

[wetcoast]

I don’t know what constitutes a super team, but they're probably about as talented as a team could reasonably be in the cap era barring some unprecedented level of drafting (yea, yea, 100 million payroll, I don't care).

I think that they have 3 guys already well on their way into the HHOF, Hedman, Stamkos, Kuch and 2 other guys with a fair chance and a very well balanced team so yes would be my answer.

 

[Eisen]

No, super teams don't exist anymore and haven't for quite some time.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

That's nothing compared to what LA and Chicago had. Both teams went down 2-0 against STL, only to win 4 straight. LA actually went down 3-0 against the Sharks, and won 4 straight to complete the reverse sweep. In 2013, Chicago was down 2-1 against Boston in game 6 with 2 minutes to go and not only tied the game but won the game and cup. The most epic recent series was Chicago vs LA in 2014. LA went up 3-1, Chicago ties the series 3-3, and in Game 7: Chicago goes up 2-0, LA then ties it 2-2, Chicago takes the lead 3-2, LA ties it, Chicago makes it 4-3, then LA ties it 4-4 and Alec Martinez wins it in OT. In 2015, Chicago played against Anaheim in the WCF, and in game 5, Toews scores 2 goals in the last 2 minutes to tie the game and send it into OT. Anaheim ended up winning that game, but Chicago still came back and won the series despite being down 3-2. The very next series, Chicago was down 2-1 against Tampa in the finals but then pushed back and won 3 straight to get the cup.

Tampa has speed and skill, but they don't have that clutch factor and resilience that these two teams had.

Tampa has a goalie that has not lost two playoff games in a row for over two years, we don't put ourselves into bad situations like the examples you showed

 

[habsnacks]

Lol they’re struggling against the Islanders while WAY over the cap. Superteam? Really?

 

[BRUINS since 1995]

They need to pass NY and Montreal!

 

[Ducati Boy]

They have that extra advantage with the 20% cap on a Cup-winning team from the last year, which is HUGE. They should be dominating the Isles but as it stands they seem to be under performing for whatever reason. They certainly have a superteam roster but are not playing up to the expectations.

I don’t get the logic here. Why would getting raises automatically make the players better? If you gave each of the 20 main Islanders $500,000 more in salary, you would have an equivalent payout. It’s hard to argue that this extra 10 million (the current differential) would spur the Isles on to domination.

 

[AD1066]

I don’t get the logic here. Why would getting raises automatically make the players better? If you gave each of the 20 main Islanders $500,000 more in salary, you would have an equivalent payout. It’s hard to argue that this extra 10 million (the current differential) would spur the Isles on to domination.

Why would the money be divided evenly among the entire roster? The situation is more akin to giving the Islanders Patrick Kane or an equivalent caliber player at the start of playoffs, which would certainly make them better.

 

[PettersonHughes]

They need to pass NY and Montreal!

Yeah, seems like the teams that can give them difficulty is the defensively disciplined team that counterpunches e.g. the Isles with their structure and physicality, or what Columbus had. It'll be a tight series against NYI for sure, and then whoever they face in SCF if they get there won't be a slouch either.

 

[summer tooth]

Not at the moment but could start to be one soon. The thunder bolts have made a lot of solid efforts, but it wasn't long ago that Columbus easily swept them in the first round. They were the best team in the league that year, and they won the cup the following year. If they win the cup this year, I think that is when you start asking the question about a possible Dynasty developing and that they might be a superteam. Then they would need to win probably another cup or 2 in the next 2-3 years.

 

[TheStatican]

They're super over the cap at least.

This is the correct answer, 87 people and counting agree