Line Combos: Are the Leafs set up the middle for the future?

Willchel Marlynder

(philer bozel)
Jul 15, 2010
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First year Toews came up with Robert Lang and Patrick Sharp

Second year Lang moved on and Toews had Sharp and Havlat and Campbell and Keith

I'm not saying we need vets, but if you look back at successful teams I think you'd be hard pressed to find a team that was all players under the age of 25 haha

Patrick Sharp and JVR are pretty much the same... Rielly was better than Kieth at the same age. Jake right now is arguably better than Kieth at his age during Toews and Kanes early years. Lang may of been a better leader than Kadri but not by much.

No Toews and Kane didnt need a superstar to become 3time cup champs. I agree you dont want a team full of under 25 players though.
 
Last edited:

Mess

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Feb 27, 2002
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Subtracting Bozak and taking a look into the future of the Leafs, we actually look nice:

Matthews 6'2.5
Nylander 6'0
Kadri 6'0
Gauthier 6'5

Pretty damned nice.

What do you guys think? Happy about this as our top 4 centres in the next few years?

Stamkos
Matthews
Kadri
Gauthier

Nylander becomes a winger again when Stamkos arrives
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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The Leafs will soon have the deepest centre core in the league.

It is a must that they continue to develop Nylander at centre - it's clear its here where he is most comfortable playing.

Ideally the Leafs will run three balanced scoring lines - which will give the other teams' defence fits. And then load up the skilled guys on the power play together.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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Stamkos
Matthews
Kadri
Gauthier

Nylander becomes a winger again when Stamkos arrives

At 26 Stamkos is likely already set in his ways as a player - and we KNOW he isn't particularly great defensively. Nylander is young enough that Babcock can entrench good defensive positioning in him. If the a leafs do decide to invest big dollars on Stamkos I'd have him in the wing.
 

Bullseye

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Jun 14, 2012
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I agree that making sure we have pieces that can play center in case of injuries is low priority, I was just stating that it's the final thing left before we are absolutely set in terms of centers. Other than development, of course.



No, what Babcock said is that he likes to start rookies off on the wing so they can ease into things without as much responsibility.

Nylander has already eased into the league at center, so that statement really has no bearing at all on him anymore. Nylander is a center, and will be a center.

So much agree with this. Reporters at the Marlies practice already hounding Nylander in the middle of the AHL playoffs about how he'd handle being moved to the wing! Omg. He's a centre.
 

saltming

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Oct 6, 2015
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Normally I don't like to say stuff like that as so much can happen during development, but I feel very comfortable with Matthews and Nylander as a top duo. Kadri is pretty much the ideal third center, and Gauthier is trending towards the ideal fourth center.

What is lacking in that picture is replacements. Hopefully Marner be one of those players who can do spot duty at center in case of injuries.

I would think the replacements are yet to be drafted, but yes we need depth at c now.
I am comfortable with what we have now to build off of.
 

Mess

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why is gauthier a centre over nylaner?

Because is the perfect 4th line centre used as checker and PK.

Wllie is a top 6 player and if Stamkos arrives combined with Matthews playing C the only top 6 forward spots remaining wingers.

JVR -- Stamkos -- Nylander

Vesey -- Matthews -- Marner

Komarov -- Kadri -- C.Brown

Hyman -- Gauthier -- Soshnikov
 

Pyromaniac3

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Dec 19, 2011
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Because is the perfect 4th line centre used as checker and PK.

Wllie is a top 6 player and if Stamkos arrives combined with Matthews playing C the only top 6 forward spots remaining wingers.

JVR -- Stamkos -- Nylander

Vesey -- Matthews -- Marner

Komarov -- Kadri -- C.Brown

Hyman -- Gauthier -- Soshnikov

It would make more sense to put Stamkos as a winger than Nylander. Nylander has played centre all his life and it makes no sense to switch him over for a player less defensively responsible.

Btw, that's such a sweet lineup. But we got too many god damn tweeners like Greening, Laich, Michalek, etc/
 

theIceWookie

#LeafHysteriaAlert
Dec 19, 2010
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I might put it another way: I'm not sold 100% on center being the best position for Nylander. Still, Nylander is a better center than Kadri at the same age. I'm pretty optimistic that we've got ourselves a future above average 2nd line center in Nylander and a far above average 3rd line center in Kadri. It's really looking like the rough template of a strong future team.

You're not answering his question, you're just finding another way to state it.

Nylander has played stints before at wing and in everyone it's been both clear from a statistical and the eye test that he's better at the center position
 

Kurisu

mad scientist
Aug 13, 2012
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At 26 Stamkos is likely already set in his ways as a player - and we KNOW he isn't particularly great defensively. Nylander is young enough that Babcock can entrench good defensive positioning in him. If the a leafs do decide to invest big dollars on Stamkos I'd have him in the wing.

you don't think Babcock will get Stamkos to play a certain way. I do. I'm not expecting him to be someone who's gonna contend for the selke, but I do expect him to be responsible defensively somewhat. Babs got Kadri to commit.
 

The CyNick

Freedom of Speech!
Sep 17, 2009
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Yes, we're set.

I don't understand you people who want to move Nylander to the wing. I can't even rationally deconstruct that idea. It's just stupid. Why on earth would we do that? To make room for Bozak?

My assumption would be if we sign Stamkos, people expect Nylander to move to wing.

If we don't land Stamkos, then you would want Nylander up the middle.

Either way seems like Bozak is the odd man out. But no rush to move him.
 

Dough72

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Sep 3, 2008
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keeping Stamkos and Matthews happy is the most important thing. Put them wherever they feel most comfortable and worry about the secondary characters later
 

Menzinger

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you don't think Babcock will get Stamkos to play a certain way. I do. I'm not expecting him to be someone who's gonna contend for the selke, but I do expect him to be responsible defensively somewhat. Babs got Kadri to commit.

Maybe. But i still see the potential for Nylander to be better defensively at centre.

I'd ultimately prefer the better two way player to be the one down the middle. Maybe that ends up being Stamkos (if he signs here), but maybe not.
 

soulie

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Jan 9, 2008
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Start of 2016/17 year:

Komarov - Kadri - Soshnikov
Greening - Nylander - Connor Brown
JVR - Matthews - Ben Smith
Mihalek - Bozak - Laich

Lupul - Gauthier - Kapanen
Leivo - Froese - Leipsec


Ouch thats such a cluster bomb... and I havent even attempted to add Stamkos yet...
 

KGL

Auston 3:16
Sep 5, 2014
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Yup, all set. Matthews should be an elite #1C, Nylander looks to be a #1C as well, Kadri is a good #2C already. Nylander (on the 2nd line) and Kadri (3rd line) will be facing lesser competition and they'll do very well with that. Gauthier on the fourth line should be nice as well in the future.
 

Canada4Gold

Registered User
Dec 22, 2010
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Yes and no.

Yes in the sense that we could not bring in another center for the rest of the build and center would still very likely be a strength with Matthews, Nylander, Kadri, Gauthier long term.

No in the sense that you don't suddenly shut yourself off to getting centers when that option arises. You can never have too many of anything. If you have 5 centers 1 goes on the wing, 6 centers 2 goes on the wing, etc, etc.

D should be a slightly bigger focus since centers and wing seem really strong right now, but if a center or a winger makes more sense than a D then you take them.

It's like Stamkos. I'm not saying going out and sign Stamkos whatever the cost, but I keep hearing people say, use the cap space on D instead of Stamkos. If there was an elite Stamkos level D available in free agency it would be a no brainer that we use that space on them before Stamkos. However there's not. There's Yandle, there's Demers. But neither is a long term guy to be a solution. I hate using free agency for mid range players. It seems like a total losing proposition. You spend on your young core, and fill the bottom with cheaper talent. Spending for middling talent to fill out the top doesn't work. So yeah at the right price I'd go for Stamkos. If we can go out and acquire a young D that we can use that money on great, but I'm not sure I like Demers for a lot of money for a long time at our current point in time.

How that relates to this thread. Well Stamkos is a center, so basically just saying don't just cross off players because position. At equals you go for the need. If a center is the best option available go for it, the rebuild isn't over yet so we don't have to definitively have our future D set by the end of this offseason.
 

Hero

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Jul 2, 2009
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Patrick Sharp and JVR are pretty much the same... Rielly was better than Kieth at the same age. Jake right now is arguably better than Kieth at his age during Toews and Kanes early years. Lang may of been a better leader than Kadri but not by much.

No Toews and Kane didnt need a superstar to become 3time cup champs. I agree you dont want a team full of under 25 players though.

1st year Toews roster...

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/CHI/2008.html

F
Lang 37
Perreault 36
Lapointe 34
K. Adams 33
C. Adams 30
Samsonov 29
Williams 27
Bourque 26
Havlat 26
Koci 26
D
Johansson 34
Sopel 31
Zyuzin 30
Vandermeer 27
G
Khabibulion 35
Lalime 33

Not all played huge roles, but was a very Veteran heavy show

Scoring leaders on team, in order
Kane
Ketih
Seabrook
Burish
Sharp
Lang
Wisneiwski
Byfuglien
Toews

So besides lang all young guys who were actually leading the pack.

The year after Havlat was healthy and played a big role (put up 77 points) and Campbell joined the team and played a big role. They signed Pahlsson as well who was a cup winning vet to help.
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
Subtracting Bozak and taking a look into the future of the Leafs, we actually look nice:

Matthews 6'2.5
Nylander 6'0
Kadri 6'0
Gauthier 6'5

Pretty damned nice.

What do you guys think? Happy about this as our top 4 centres in the next few years?

close but nope, not in my books

"next few years'?

Stamkos
Mathews
Kadri
Goat

and marner,nylander as 2 elite wingers
 

Go4soda

Registered User
Dec 15, 2015
1,009
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why is everyone saying Nylander isn't a center?

Sweedish Elite- Center
WJC- Center
AHL- first year (halfway through the year) winger
AHL- Second year- Center (#1 in scoring)

Dont know why everyone is saying he is a winger

Matthews-Nylander-Kadri- Gauthier

thats ridiculous,

This exactly.
He is a center.

Also, it's interesting how the narrative has changed among posters regarding marner.
Last year as the draft was approaching, the majority were arguing to the death that Marner would definitely be a center in this league. Now it seems he's being penciled in as a W in most depth charts with little argument.
I guess we'll see how it all shakes out. Wouldn't be the worst thing to have him on mathews' or Nylander' s wing.
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
Expensive luxury imo.

Money that would be used there is better utilized strengthening the depth of the line up, upgrading defense, and goaltending.

We'll need to sign Matthews after 3 years to a big expensive extension. Plus there is Nylander and Marner to consider as well. JVR?

I just don't think Stamkos is worth it now, it creates too many other complications.

ya know 99

i keep see folks spew this rhetoric and the funny thing is

they never ever have the guts to back it up with projected numbers.

i see lots of teams doing very well with a few very high cap hits like wash/pitt and others

if they can do it, so can we
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
Subtracting Bozak and taking a look into the future of the Leafs, we actually look nice:

Matthews 6'2.5
Nylander 6'0
Kadri 6'0
Gauthier 6'5

Pretty damned nice.

What do you guys think? Happy about this as our top 4 centres in the next few years?

but setting my dogged rhetoric aside

ya what you listed looks damn fine and would be very happy with that.
 

The_Chosen_One

Registered User
Jul 4, 2006
6,285
27
Melbourne, Australia
you don't think Babcock will get Stamkos to play a certain way. I do. I'm not expecting him to be someone who's gonna contend for the selke, but I do expect him to be responsible defensively somewhat. Babs got Kadri to commit.
Babs will treat Stamkos, the same way he handled Kariya. A former 60 goal scorer isn't going to be moulded into someone with a cleaner defensive game ( that's impossible at this stage) and rather he'll be utilised as an offensive forward.

Now if Stamkos is really bent on being a centre ( despite being weak at it), we'll likely just line him up with defensive responsible wingers. I, personally, could see Kadri tried at wing due to being far more steadier on the defensive end than Stamkos. Naz reminds me of Marchand in that sense and could do quite well in that role.
 

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