HF Habs: Anyone else completely losing interest in the Team?

[Kriss E]

Agreed.

Speaking french didnt stop Habs GM to acquire Belows, Kovalev, Smith, Damphousse, Turgeon, Recchi, Muller...


but for this GM, it's all about looking like he's trying hard. Bergevin speaks french so owner looks like he cares about his fanbase...

Honestly, I don't know a single person who supports Bergevin. I'm pretty sure even the fiercest defenders here like Belial don't even support him in real life. Those posters just get a kick out of arguing on the internet, but really it's impossible to support this GM at this point in time.
Sure, Molson can, because he has millions attached to him. His players and colleagues also do, as they work for him.
But I mean, come on, any semi decent fan knows this guy is a complete failure.

 

[Shabs]

Ex-Hab Dmen who are better than a couple of Habs Dmen would be quite a list: Emelin, Subban, Pateryn, Sergachev, McDonagh, how many others?

Markov

 

[Shabs]

Yup, total B.S.

it's clear as day : bah, to me it's clear as day, the ones who keep bringing up language in these forums do it cause they hate the french in some way... they'll always start with a... "I don't care about language BUT" or something similar...

-> there is people who do hate/dislike the french (yup, just like some people dislike/hate everything english) in these forums, (do you really want to debate it does not exist, among the thousands of people who connect to HF once in a while ?) / as pointed out in the bolded, the people who like to bring up (as in re-start, reset, re-open) the language thing are among this group (wether this group is tiny, just small, big, hure, gagantic, i dont give a ****, IT DOES exist), not ALL the posters, the posters who like to bring up language, not the vast majority who naver said a word about the issue, again the who who DO bring it up...

notice, the post you keep bringing as "evidence" for me saying ALL people here hate the french is NOT saying that, quite the opposite actually as it does say it clearly "among those who bring up language", it's a specific group, not ALL of HF talk about language here, actually, in fact, had you worked in your reading comprehension a bit, it's not only NOT every single poster that hates/dislike the french it is a minority, just like it's a ****ing minority who bring up language once in a while...


and here they are : he ones who really don't care, they don't talk about it

again it's clear as day, the ones who don't care, care about what ? since it's language posts I've been replying to, is there a chance I am referring to the people who do not care about (insert drumroll)... -> language <- (neither french, english, arabic, persian, swahile, swedish, etc)... now that we've established that the people I am refering to in this very sinple to understand sentence is it possible that by not caring I happen to understand they probably don't have an opinion or a strong enough one to bother voicing it ? and that chances are if said people dont have a strong opinion on the matter it is very possible they dont like/dislike the french in particular or something ??




now that's been detailed, IF you happen not to understand a word I wrote and feel the need to keep lying, just dont...

your last two reply are the most stupid I've ever had the "chance" to receive
since I dont need that level of stupidity in my life, we'll simply never talk again.

Dude, relax.

For the record, I love French. It’s the only way I take my fries.

 

[Luigi Habs]

Honestly, I don't know a single person who supports Bergevin. I'm pretty sure even the fiercest defenders here like Belial don't even support him in real life. Those posters just get a kick out of arguing on the internet, but really it's impossible to support this GM at this point in time.
Sure, Molson can, because he has millions attached to him. His players and colleagues also do, as they work for him.
But I mean, come on, any semi decent fan knows this guy is a complete failure.

I have a guy at work who supports and trusts MB. For him it’s always the players fault. I stopped talking hockey with him or I’m gonna lose my job.

 

[Kriss E]

I have a guy at work who supports and trusts MB. For him it’s always the players fault. I stopped talking hockey with him or I’m gonna lose my job.

Well, either he is trolling or he doesn't know crap about hockey. Either way, pointless to waste time with people like this.

 

[Lshap]

Ahh the faint of heart, enjoy living in the negative zone, I for one will always find the positive. The Habs are showing they have all the right stuff to become Champions, it's merely a matter of experience. They don't have to win this season or next, they just need to make positive steps toward becoming an elite team.

I get the optimism during a game. As my wife says, isn't she allowed to enjoy the game even if the team's not making the playoffs? She is, and she has a point. There's a time and place to worry about the mortgage, but doing it while having sex is kinda dumb. I'm all about being in the moment.

But once the game's over, we've gotta traverse a wide, daunting 'negative-zone' separating us from a contender. Sure, every journey begins with a single step, and kids like Scherbak and Juulsen are nice first steps, but for the sake of your optimism I hope you've packed a lot of water.

 

[Censored Toad]

I have a guy at work who supports and trusts MB. For him it’s always the players fault. I stopped talking hockey with him or I’m gonna lose my job.

I had a dips**t friend who was all pro Bergy as well.. I would use stats to prove how bad the habs are and he just continued to blame the players who were under performing and injuries. He said Marc had won the PK trade entirely and Serg vs drouin was a win for us because serg wouldn't get any ice time with our D depth........

We aren't friends anymore.

I did get a text late in Feb 2018 this year however, he owned up and said he was wrong and that the habs are poorly constructed/managed and I was right. felt good man....

 

[Lshap]

I had a dips**t friend who was all pro Bergy as well.. I would use stats to prove how bad the habs are and he just continued to blame the players who were under performing and injuries. He said Marc had won the PK trade entirely and Serg vs drouin was a win for us because serg wouldn't get any ice time with our D depth........

We aren't friends anymore.

I did get a text late in Feb 2018 this year however, he owned up and said he was wrong and that the habs are poorly constructed/managed and I was right. felt good man....

You might be attaching a bit too much weight to a hockey opinion when it's being used to measure friendships. Just sayin'...

 

[Laurentide]

Your example about the Expos doesn't at all square with what you're trying to get across. The Expos failed on account of a shortsighted ownership group that conducted multiple firesales, did not extend their star players and were in a constant state of starting over. This has zero to do with fan support. Run any pro team in the same manner and you're running it into the ground. Revisionist history doesn't support your patience argument.

And this "fans are not immortal" argument, is all encompassing. It doesn't prove anything. Everything is temporary, franchises and the way they are run, ownership groups and organizational philosophies evolve. What pro sports have shown is that there are certain management decisions that lead to failure, just like in any other business. The Habs' current organizational issues can easily be imputed to those who have the ultimate decision-making powers -- nothing new in this either.

Hab fans are not like Cub fans for the simple reason that Hab fans have been spoiled by having a local team that has been one of the winningest pro sports franchises in the world and . However, even the Habs had their dark times and they have nonetheless thrived as a franchise. They have had a waiting list season tickets since their last Stanley Cup win. Habs tickets have almost always been difficult to come by and even without winning, there is enough of a season ticket base and no direct competition from any other major league sports team.

What makes non-winning toxic is how a team is run, not how often they win. The way the Expos were managed eventually alienated their fan base. You're not going to attend games when the players you're invested in are constantly being traded for lesser, unproven assets. The Habs have nowhere near that type of business model. Run the Habs like the Expos for several years and you're going to cultivate fan apathy at a high enough level that you'll have Habs tickets to sell. You won't even get to that point, you just won't buy them.

Even if the Cubs won their WS in 2016, the only other WS they won were in 1907 and 1908 and yet their fans did not give up on them, they were not run like the Expos. Let's compare apples with apples, this whole Expos-bashing exercise doesn't support the point you're trying to make.

It's not about bashing the Expos. It's about the fickle fan base which exists in Montreal for pretty much all sports. They give the Habs a lot more slack because it's hockey and because the Habs were traditionally an elite team but even the Habs have had times since the end of the dynasty in 79 where they've actually had to "sell" tickets to people. As Dick Irvin used to say "Habs fans stick with the team win or tie (just don't tie too often)" The fan base was spoiled by all the winning and came to expect it. And whenever they didn't get it, or get enough of it, they bailed. I remember radio ads in the early 80's for Habs PLAYOFF tickets. Back then, the fan base was used to winning and wasn't interested in watching the Bob Berry Habs.

Unfortunately this attitude also permeated into the other sports franchises in Montreal even though they had no such tradition of winning. So the Expos, after the novelty of having a new team wore off, became a tough sell. In 1976, the last season at Jarry Park, the Expos might as well have been a rumor for all the tickets they sold. They couldn't even draw a decent crowd to a 28000 seat stadium anymore. From 79-83 when they were winning they led the Majors in attendance and when the winning stopped the crowds dwindled. Sure things got a lot worse after Bronfman sold the club because it never had stable or competent ownership after that, but the buzz was long gone before that. I used to go to many games at Olympic Stadium between 1985 and 1991 and most games I went to were sparsely attended and many times I went alone because I couldn't convince anyone to go. Baseball was no longer on their radar.

I went to Alouettes games in the late 70's (when the Als were a good team) and they could draw 50,000 on a weeknight. By 1983 I was going to Concordes games that drew only 2000. When the team folded in 87 barely anyone noticed. When it came back in 1996 people shrugged. Then they got good when Calvillo showed up and the team moved to McGill. They rode that wave for a few years and it was a great ride. But today the Als are mediocre again and that 25000 seat stadium on the mountain can't sell all its seats anymore.

Fan support for anything in Montreal is influenced by only one factor: winning. If you win, they show up. If you don't, they find other things to do. The only reason why the Habs are somewhat immune is because they've not won for long enough that the current generation of fans doesn't know what it's like to be a winner so their expectations are lower than generations before them.

 

[groovejuice]

You are still in the delusional senseless phase.


Habs have what it takes to become Champs....Stop trolling man..haha

I like hearing from Santa Claus. If nothing else, posts full of unbridled joy and positivity are a reminder that we can become a little jaded from negativity, even if it's well earned.

 

[Kriss E]

I like hearing from Santa Claus. If nothing else, posts full of unbridled joy and positivity are a reminder that we can become a little jaded from negativity, even if it's well earned.

Perhaps, but I'm not a cheerleader.
We are not discussing an outlook on life in general here, where a positive outlook can have a major influence on your person. We are talking about a sports team. Being positive or negative will change absolutely nothing to the outcome here. So I'll just call it as I see it, and right now, the team is in terrible shape. I was positive that Galch would be used as a top center since he was drafted, I was positive we were going to re-sign Markov, I was positive PK was here to stay, I was positive about Drouin becoming a top liner for us this year, that didn't change a single thing to what actually transpired.
So ya, our youngsters got more playing time this year, wooptidoodledo. We still suck big balls and we have idiots at the helm.

 

[groovejuice]

Perhaps, but I'm not a cheerleader.
We are not discussing an outlook on life in general here, where a positive outlook can have a major influence on your person. We are talking about a sports team. Being positive or negative will change absolutely nothing to the outcome here. So I'll just call it as I see it, and right now, the team is in terrible shape. I was positive that Galch would be used as a top center since he was drafted, I was positive we were going to re-sign Markov, I was positive PK was here to stay, I was positive about Drouin becoming a top liner for us this year, that didn't change a single thing to what actually transpired.
So ya, our youngsters got more playing time this year, wooptidoodledo. We still suck big balls and we have idiots at the helm.

You know I agree with you, as do most others. I think an occasional breeze of positivity is not a bad thing, regardless of the sad reality.

 

[Laurentide]

Perhaps, but I'm not a cheerleader.
We are not discussing an outlook on life in general here, where a positive outlook can have a major influence on your person. We are talking about a sports team. Being positive or negative will change absolutely nothing to the outcome here. So I'll just call it as I see it, and right now, the team is in terrible shape. I was positive that Galch would be used as a top center since he was drafted, I was positive we were going to re-sign Markov, I was positive PK was here to stay, I was positive about Drouin becoming a top liner for us this year, that didn't change a single thing to what actually transpired.
So ya, our youngsters got more playing time this year, wooptidoodledo. We still suck big balls and we have idiots at the helm.

If you thought that PK would remain a Hab long-term you haven't been following the history of how this franchise deals with free thinking employees who don't toe the company line. The tall blades of grass always get cut down to size.

 

[Kriss E]

You know I agree with you, as do most others. I think an occasional breeze of positivity is not a bad thing, regardless of the sad reality.

Sure, I am hoping we win the lotto. That is my positivity. Go luck go!

 

[Censored Toad]

You might be attaching a bit too much weight to a hockey opinion when it's being used to measure friendships. Just sayin'...

It was a circumstance that it was the last straw to break the camels back, I had other reasons to end it.
He is very right when it comes to political alignment and is racist.
A friend from high school when we had more in common, not so much now except the habs.

 

[groovejuice]

Sure, I am hoping we win the lotto. That is my positivity. Go luck go!

You have a statistically better chance to win the lottery than the Habs do to win a cup with Bergevin.

 

[Capitano]

You have a statistically better chance to win the lottery than the Habs do to win a cup worth Bergevin.

Have to agree lol.

 

[Lshap]

You have a statistically better chance to win the lottery than the Habs do to win a cup with Bergevin.

Well... technically that's not true. Bergevin did buy a ticket. Unfortunately he paid double for it.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

You have a statistically better chance to win the lottery several times than the Habs do to win a cup with Bergevin.

Correction was needed.

 

[groovejuice]

Well... technically that's not true. Bergevin did buy a ticket. Unfortunately he paid double for it.

I think there's a persuasive argument to be made that Bergevin will never win a cup. Never is worse than 1 in 40M.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

It was a circumstance that it was the last straw to break the camels back, I had other reasons to end it.
He is very right when it comes to political alignment and is racist.
A friend from high school when we had more in common, not so much now except the habs.

Like wise , I have people I simply don't talk about hockey anymore. Rds has brainwashed them into walking around saying shaw and weber are CHaracter guys subban is a cancer on the ice and off of it and drouin will put up 70 points lmao.

 

[Censored Toad]

Like wise , I have people I simply don't talk about hockey anymore. Rds has brainwashed them into walking around saying shaw and weber are CHaracter guys subban is a cancer on the ice and off of it and drouin will put up 70 points lmao.

" But Bergevin got us Vanek that one year and stole off waivers Paul Byron!!"
* lists a bunch of Negative Moves *

"Well he also got us Radulov last year"
well why didn't we resign him with all that cap space?

" Cause he was a mercenary, now we have money to get a big free agent Signing like John T."
You mean just like when Stamkos was going to be a 100% a Toronto Maple Leaf? Unlikely

"He got rid of PK the Cancer and Drouin will be a top Line C, it was his first season at C!!!! "
Does it look like the Preds think PK is a cancer? His teammates did go to the hospital the last time they were in Montreal and Droiun may never be a #1 C, but your right we can always give him some time at the start of next year. I don't like what I seen so far.

" Just give Marc more time, he will turn things around this draft and off season"
You mean like how he let Markov and Radulov walk last off season for nothing and proceeded to try and fix it with Alzner, Hemsky and Streit? The guy has had 6 years at the helm and we are way worse then when we started.

"What do you mean?? Alzner was a SOLID pick up!! Just you wait , we are contenders next year for sure"
Yeah we are done here.....

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I think more people will show interest, MB or someone else, if the team shows a sign of having a direction.

Like if we're rebuilding, cool. If we're acquiring legit talent to compete now, cool.

Status quo though? Not sure where we are.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Honestly, I don't know a single person who supports Bergevin. I'm pretty sure even the fiercest defenders here like Belial don't even support him in real life. Those posters just get a kick out of arguing on the internet, but really it's impossible to support this GM at this point in time.
Sure, Molson can, because he has millions attached to him. His players and colleagues also do, as they work for him.
But I mean, come on, any semi decent fan knows this guy is a complete failure.

For what it's worth I've always said same thing here and in person. Whether it was DD, MT or MB.

That doesn't mean my opinion doesn't evolve or change over time. I've just been pretty consistent in and out of this forum.

HF would've led me to believe people would avoid discussing this with me. Instead many people agreed with me. Some disagreed for sure, but it wasn't as dramatic as here. It was much more reasonable.

 

[Runner77]

It's not about bashing the Expos. It's about the fickle fan base which exists in Montreal for pretty much all sports. They give the Habs a lot more slack because it's hockey and because the Habs were traditionally an elite team but even the Habs have had times since the end of the dynasty in 79 where they've actually had to "sell" tickets to people. As Dick Irvin used to say "Habs fans stick with the team win or tie (just don't tie too often)" The fan base was spoiled by all the winning and came to expect it. And whenever they didn't get it, or get enough of it, they bailed. I remember radio ads in the early 80's for Habs PLAYOFF tickets. Back then, the fan base was used to winning and wasn't interested in watching the Bob Berry Habs.

Unfortunately this attitude also permeated into the other sports franchises in Montreal even though they had no such tradition of winning. So the Expos, after the novelty of having a new team wore off, became a tough sell. In 1976, the last season at Jarry Park, the Expos might as well have been a rumor for all the tickets they sold. They couldn't even draw a decent crowd to a 28000 seat stadium anymore. From 79-83 when they were winning they led the Majors in attendance and when the winning stopped the crowds dwindled. Sure things got a lot worse after Bronfman sold the club because it never had stable or competent ownership after that, but the buzz was long gone before that. I used to go to many games at Olympic Stadium between 1985 and 1991 and most games I went to were sparsely attended and many times I went alone because I couldn't convince anyone to go. Baseball was no longer on their radar.

I went to Alouettes games in the late 70's (when the Als were a good team) and they could draw 50,000 on a weeknight. By 1983 I was going to Concordes games that drew only 2000. When the team folded in 87 barely anyone noticed. When it came back in 1996 people shrugged. Then they got good when Calvillo showed up and the team moved to McGill. They rode that wave for a few years and it was a great ride. But today the Als are mediocre again and that 25000 seat stadium on the mountain can't sell all its seats anymore.

Fan support for anything in Montreal is influenced by only one factor: winning. If you win, they show up. If you don't, they find other things to do. The only reason why the Habs are somewhat immune is because they've not won for long enough that the current generation of fans doesn't know what it's like to be a winner so their expectations are lower than generations before them.

I followed almost every game the Expos played, attended several and from my estimation, as much as winning is important, what caused attendance to collapse were ownership decisions that had to do with running the team in a manner that did not secure the presence of their players long term. There has been baseball in Montreal since the 1860s, organized teams since the 1870s, there has always been baseball in Montreal in some form. I think if it's run properly it will thrive and as a 2nd major league sport, it would pick up from where the Habs drop off.

As for the tradition of winning, you can't put all fans in the same basket. There is a lot to be said for fan identification with certain player, it surpasses the team itself a lot of times. Every franchise has ebbs and flows but they're not all related to a team's record, but I'd argue it has to do with whether management wants to win and what they're doing about it. You can't win when you dispatch your best assets, when you're unwilling to pay up when they are due for a raise or a long-term deal. Most of the Expos' years were permeated with budgetary concerns, selling the team, selling off their best players, a constant flux of incoming unproven players replacing a star asset like a Gary Carter who drew crowds in and off the field.

Hell, they couldn't even secure the continuance of their English broadcasters which as a lot of Montrealers reminisce, were a staple and a direct connection to the team. You can't simply jettison a Dave Van Horne and not have a fallout. Nor can you bring in a snake oil salesman like Loria and his midget clone shyster and expect fans to buy in and trust the product. Same can be said of that incredibly shortsighted ownership consortium that took over from Bronfman. They did not have the wherewithal to play with the owners of all other major league teams. They were a bottom line operation, they dismantled the team for cash. I'll never forget how Claude Brochu ran the team like scrooge -- in his first spring training as head of the ownership group, he ordered players not to flip baseballs to fans in the stands and if they did, they'd have to pay for them. Just think about that for a second and add to that a myriad of other similarly petty examples that belittled the paying fan and ask yourself how much "winning" was the issue that brought the Expos to their knees.

You may be able to make a better argument with the Alouettes, the CFL is an acquired taste, caters to a more limited demographic that most perceived as an inferior product and which has been watered down over the years. To me that's just a minor sport that can't really be used as an example of anything, virtually no one will care if they folded tomorrow. Just as people cared somewhat when they went bankrupt. Maybe you can argue that for a minor sport, winning will become like an event that some fans may like to associate themselves with, but that's just the fairweather variety, bandwagon jumpers that you find in any city. The Alouettes don't reflect general fan mentality in my view and I used to follow them closely. I gave up on them once they went bankrupt and never again cared, even after they rostered good teams and won. I just didn't consider them to be relevant, not a mainstream sport, too much roster turnover, playing in a small league set up with limited appeal.

While Montreal is event-driven in terms of major happenings around town, like Formula 1 and the Jazz Fest, the same type of mentality doesn't necessarily apply to the way the city follows its sports. The distinction that I've seen and lived, is that fans will gravitate more easily toward sports that are mainstream and that puts Montreal on the map in terms of North American major leagues. And that means the Habs and Expos. If the Expos are owned by stable ownership and they are run like a team with long-term prospects, whose existence is not threatened from one week to the next as they were during the end of the Bronfman years, then then winning won't be the be-all and end-all. Any team that is properly managed will live through cycles of failure and success but what ultimately determines whether fans are on board, is how they are being managed, not whether they are winning -- when you have so many teams in a league, it is rather obvious and most fans accept this -- that winning it all is not assured and may not happen.

Just give the fans their star players and ensure that they get to stick around and manage the team effectively, without the specter of ownership abandonment and fans will be there, so winning is not everything. Not when it comes to a major league sport like MLB.