Any Doubt who the GOAT is?

[DangleCity]

Brady is tied with or has more SBs than every FRANCHISE. Is there any doubt after tonight who the GOAT is?

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[V13]

Its not just the wins but also the SB appearances. Brady is the GOAT. Anyone who says otherwise is either a hater or in denial.

That said Brady did not win the SB for the Pats tonight. The defense did. Crazy i know but its the truth

 

[DangleCity]

Its not just the wins but also the SB appearances. Brady is the GOAT. Anyone who says otherwise is either a hater or in denial.

That said Brady did not win the SB for the Pats tonight. The defense did. Crazy i know but its the truth

Yup. Did not play great, but given the style of game tonight, did enough. Just the fact that he extended drives in a game yhat was so defensive focused was huge. That Rams defense was worn down and tired in the 4th quarter and it was huge

 

[Roboturner913]

I didn't know it was even a question.

 

[DangleCity]

I didn't know it was even a question.

You'd be very surprised.

 

[TB12]

None whatsoever.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

You'd be very surprised.

I mean, sure. There are contrarians and homers everywhere who will say Lemieux, Orr, Maurice Richard, etc. are hockey’s GOAT.

Only real question for me is when it became official.

 

[darko]

I mean, sure. There are contrarians and homers everywhere who will say Lemieux, Orr, Maurice Richard, etc. are hockey’s GOAT.

Only real question for me is when it became official.

IMO after he won #4. #5 made it a no doubter. #6 made no difference.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

 

[c9777666]

Montana never lost a SB. Never threw a INT.

Seriously, Hoyer could have won this SB. Hell, Hoyer/Jimmy G could have won this Rams game behind that Belichick defense.

 

[Roboturner913]

Montana never lost a SB. Never threw a INT.

Pretty sure if Montana had been in 9 SBs he would've lost a couple in there somewhere.

Just the fact that Brady has been to 9 is impressive enough to me, even if he was only like 4-5 in those games and he's no more a system QB than Montana was either.

 

[c9777666]

Pretty sure if Montana had been in 9 SBs he would've lost a couple in there somewhere.

Just the fact that Brady has been to 9 is impressive enough to me, even if he was only like 4-5 in those games and he's no more a system QB than Montana was either.

Playing in an easy division inflates his chances.

 

[Terry Yake]

belichick

brady #2

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Damn, it still indeed is Dan Marino

 

[Fossy21]

Montana never lost a SB. Never threw a INT.

Seriously, Hoyer could have won this SB. Hell, Hoyer/Jimmy G could have won this Rams game behind that Belichick defense.

Playing in an easy division inflates his chances.

As opposed to Montana playing in an era where it was impossible for NFC teams to lose the Super Bowl? He came pretty damn close twice, though. The Super Bowl wasn't the big game back then. He had four one and dones in eleven playoff runs, Brady has two in sixteen. He lost a divisional game 49-3. Three of his one and dones came in a row, where he threw 4 picks with no TD in those three games.

For all the talk of Vinatieri "bailing" Brady out multiple times, Wersching scored 14 of 26 in Montana's first SB win, a game they won by five points.

In his second one, his D held Marino to 16 points, with 4 sacks, 2 picks and a forced fumble and held the Dolphins running game to 25 yards on 9 runs. Marino's adjusted net yards/attempt was a cool 3.69 yards.

In his third game, he won by a margin of four again, throwing a pretty easy pick to Lewis Billups that he dropped. Cofer scored 11 of 20 points, an even larger margin than Wersching did.

In his fourth game, his D held John Elway to ten points and a 19.4 passer rating from 4.15 yards per attempt, 2 picks, 4 sacks, and 2 fumbles (1 recovered). Elway's adjusted net yards/attempt was a cool -0.4 yards.

But yeah, Montana won all of those games on his own, in an era with no salary cap and no free agency, where NFC teams won 15 of 16 Super Bowls, most of them blowouts. Let's not even throw stickum into the argument, even though the 49ers used it more than anyone else. Good for him.

 

[c9777666]

The 49ers in their own division had to face the Dome Patrol Saints 2x a year with multiple Pro Bowl linebackers. Contrast that with what Brady faces twice a year. Only road games in Miami seemingly trip him up.

The NFC was a meatgrinder back then. The AFC today is not that.

Plus, in those 4 SB's, they played 3 league MVP QB's and the other was against the #1 scoring defense/#3 total defense.

Jared Goff is not exactly 1984 Dan Marino. Or even '88 Boomer.

 

[Fossy21]

The 49ers in their own division had to face the Dome Patrol Saints 2x a year with multiple Pro Bowl linebackers. Contrast that with what Brady faces twice a year. Only road games in Miami seemingly trip him up.

The NFC was a meatgrinder back then. The AFC today is not that.

Plus, in those 4 SB's, they played 3 league MVP QB's and the other was against the #1 scoring defense/#3 total defense.

Jared Goff is not exactly 1984 Dan Marino. Or even '88 Boomer.

But surely those MVP's were only MVP's because they beat up on the sorry AFC, loading their stat sheet?
And if anything, that makes the defensive performance of the 49ers even more impressive, further diminishing Montana's contributions in your mind, surely? Goff had a better ANY/A tonight than Elway against those 49ers teams, by far, and a very similar one to what Marino posted. Did you watch Goff tonight? That's how dominant those 49ers teams were, with or without Montana. System argument doesn't work in his favour, nor does the kicker argument, the teammates argument, the division argument, the conference argument or the silly "no picks in four games" argument.

In 3 of their 4 SB seasons, they were 6, 5 and 3 wins ahead of the second team in their division.
In the Patriots' 6 SB seasons, they were tied once, 4 wins ahead four times, and 3 wins ahead once. An average 3.167 wins ahead, to Montana's 49ers' 3.5.

The AFC has been vastly superior to the NFC since Brady joined the league. But nowhere near the NFC dominance of the 80's and early 90's.

 

[c9777666]

But surely those MVP's were only MVP's because they beat up on the sorry AFC, loading their stat sheet?
And if anything, that makes the defensive performance of the 49ers even more impressive, further diminishing Montana's contributions in your mind, surely? Goff had a better ANY/A tonight than Elway against those 49ers teams, by far, and a very similar one to what Marino posted. Did you watch Goff tonight? That's how dominant those 49ers teams were, with or without Montana. System argument doesn't work in his favour, nor does the kicker argument, the teammates argument, the division argument, the conference argument or the silly "no picks in four games" argument.

In 3 of their 4 SB seasons, they were 6, 5 and 3 wins ahead of the second team in their division.
In the Patriots' 6 SB seasons, they were tied once, 4 wins ahead four times, and 3 wins ahead once. An average 3.167 wins ahead, to Montana's 49ers' 3.5.

The AFC has been vastly superior to the NFC since Brady joined the league. But nowhere near the NFC dominance of the 80's and early 90's.

Those MVP's did what they did in an era when defenses could dictate and QB's could get mauled.

 

[Scott Stevens]

Playing in an easy division inflates his chances.

Somebody here in a recent thread has compiled the stats and showed that New England has a better win percentage outside of their division than against it in the Brady and Belichick years.

 

[darko]

Montana never lost a SB. Never threw a INT.

You are right. Montana lost before SB.

Brady: 29-10 playoff record (74%)
Montana: 16-7 (69%)

Keep spinning your bullshit.

 

[Fossy21]

You are right. Montana lost before SB.

Brady: 29-10 playoff record (74%)
Montana: 16-7 (69%)

Keep spinning your bull****.

Or missed it altogether.

Somebody here in a recent thread has compiled the stats and showed that New England has a better win percentage outside of their division than against it in the Brady and Belichick years.

And that’s facing other teams’ #1 teams more often than anyone else in the league, whereas they only face the three worst teams in the ”worst division in the league” twice each a year. So other divisions’ (on average) #2 teams play the Pats worse than the AFC East’s #3, pretty much.

 

[Pestilence]

Montana never lost a SB. Never threw a INT.

Seriously, Hoyer could have won this SB. Hell, Hoyer/Jimmy G could have won this Rams game behind that Belichick defense.

Trent Dilfer also never lost a Super Bowl, and never threw an interception in it either. So thus he was better player than what Dan Marino was.

I'm not in a position to tell who's the best, but "Montana never lost a SB" is probably the laziest argument you can create.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I’ve got Brady high on the list (and there is an easy arguement to make to have him #1), but I don’t think you can quite call him the GOAT without question.

To me, the GOAT wins and there is no one else that can match their performance. I think if you put Rodgers or Brees on the Pats they wouldn’t miss a beat.

Now Belichick on the other hand? Leading a team to the Super Bowl seemingly year in and year out across two decades while having a roatating cast due to the salary cap. Now that’s a GOAT performance, as there is no arguement that you could pop another coach in NE and have the same success.

 

[BLONG7]

Guys, I do not have a team so to speak, and only watch a little during the season, key games etc but I love watching playoff football, almost always good games..............

Brady is it..........even the haters would admit it under their breath. It has to be Brady....there have been some amazing QB's over the years, Montana and Bradshaw for me...............but it's Brady. Not sure if Bill was lucky to have Brady, or Brady was lucky to have Bill.

To be that amazing over such a long period of your career, is astounding.

 

[HellebuyckOurSaviour]

What team wouldnt want to play against the Bills, Jets and Dolphins to win every year? You put the Patriots in any other division and would love to see how they get to where they are. 6 SB's, 2 pretty much given to them (Seattle/Atlanta) seattle runs the ball and they win the SB, Atlanta kicks a fg instead of gunning it game over, i dont know how any one person can be a GOAT, didnt know Brady played 50 years ago? And anyone who is a NE fan, once him and BB are gone and every team destroys you each year and then YOU start whining and complaining and keep talking about (well when TB and BB were here blah blah blah) no one will have any sympathy for you.