Post-Game Talk: Another loss

[GMofOilers]

Real easy to say that behind a keyboard.

There is no magical "sports science" that lets you play massive minutes at the pace of the modern NHL either unless the "science" you're talking about is illegal performance enhancing drugs.

Stuff like creatine supplements are not going to increase your performance that much.

Creatine supplements?!?! Sports science is so far above that 90's technology.

Honest, these guys are wired 24/7 and they know their energy levels every day, all day.

 

[Soundwave]

Creatine supplements?!?! Sports science is so far above that 90's technology.

Honest, these guys are wired 24/7 and they know their energy levels every day, all day.

It doesn't make that much of a difference. There's nothing *legally* you can get that would make you a far better athlete than a comparable person from the 90s.

If you want to get into illegal performance enhancing substances, OK, but that's a different can of worms.

There's no magical legal substance that lets you play 25 minutes/game at the modern NHL pace and feel like you've only played 17-18 minutes. It doesn't exist.

 

[GMofOilers]

It doesn't make that much of a difference. There's nothing *legally* you can get that would make you a far better athlete than a comparable person from the 90s.

If you want to get into illegal performance enhancing substances, OK, but that's a different can of worms.

There's no magical legal substance that lets you play 25 minutes/game at the modern NHL pace and feel like you've only played 17-18 minutes. It doesn't exist.

OH yeah there is. Nutrition and rest at the right times, are things athletes didnt know much about in the 90s

 

[Soundwave]

OH yeah there is. Nutrition and rest at the right times, are things athletes didnt know much about in the 90s

Uh the 90s weren't exaclty the 70s, lol.

Plenty of people were on protein powders + creatine + amino acids + multivitamins + eating clean by the 90s, especially the late 90s.

There's nothing that any of these supplement stores have today that radically improves performance that much, they sell the same shit they were selling 20 years ago ... every supplement stores top 4 sellers are

1. Protein powders
2. Creatine/creatine derivatives
3. Amino acid supplements
4. General multivitamin

There's no magically "new" kind of thing available to athletes today that radically improves performance that much, if there was it would have completely upended the supplement business.

There's nothing you can legally get that's going to let you play 25 minutes/night every night like its nothing. That doesn't exist. Even with illegal substances, I think you would be hard pressed to find something that works for an 82 game season.

 

[GMofOilers]

Uh the 90s weren't exaclty the 70s, lol.

Plenty of people were on protein powders + creatine + amino acids + multivitamins + eating clean by the 90s, especially the late 90s.

There's nothing that any of these supplement stores have today that radically improves performance that much, they sell the same **** they were selling 20 years ago ... every supplement stores top 4 sellers are

1. Protein powders
2. Creatine/creatine derivatives
3. Amino acid supplements
4. General multivitamin

There's no magically "new" kind of thing available to athletes today that radically improves performance that much, if there was it would have completely upended the supplement business.

There's nothing you can legally get that's going to let you play 25 minutes/night every night like its nothing. That doesn't exist. Even with illegal substances, I think yo would be hard pressed to find something that works for an 82 game season.

If you dont think sports science has given a advantage to athletes in the last 20 years, then you should really do some research.

 

[Soundwave]

If you dont think sports science has given a advantage to athletes in the last 20 years, then you should really do some research.

Uh what kind of research?

Freaks of nature like Lindros, Pronger, Lidstrom would still completely dominate a modern NHL game.

There is no supplement available today legally that can increase performance that much and I hate to break this to you but people knew by the 90s that getting sleep and not smoking were important.

There isn't that much that has changed since the 90s really, the fact that creatine really was the last huge supplement craze and there has been no supplement product since then to really supercede it kinda shows that too.

There's nothing in any supplement store that you can buy today that wasn't available 20 years ago that would radically alter ones stamina, muscle mass, fast twitch muscle fiber, or muscle recovery to any massive degree.

If such a product existed and was legal, everyone and their grandma would be taking it.

These guys do "new age" stuff like the ice bath, but that's nothing special either, athletes have been putting ice bags on their knees for 20-30 years at least as a common thing. The Chicago Bulls were doing that all the time in the 90s.

 

[GMofOilers]

Uh what kind of research?

Freaks of nature like Lindros, Pronger, Lidstrom would still completely dominate a modern NHL game.

There is no supplement available today legally that can increase performance that much and I hate to break this to you but people knew by the 90s that getting sleep and not smoking were important.

There isn't that much that has changed since the 90s really, the fact that creatine really was the last huge supplement craze and there has been no supplement product since then to really supercede it kinda shows that too.

There's nothing in any supplement store that you can buy today that wasn't available 20 years ago that would radically alter ones stamina, muscle mass, fast twitch muscle fiber, or muscle recovery.

These guys do "new age" stuff like the ice bath, but that's nothing special either, athletes have been putting ice bags on their knees for 20-30 years at least as a common thing. The Chicago Bulls were doing that all the time in the 90s.

Nutrition

 

[Soundwave]

Nutrition

Yeah I forgot they just discovered nutrition in the last decade.

I'm sure Doug Weight and Ryan Smyth and Jarome Iginla were chowing down on McDonalds during the intermissions back in the day.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Better question for coach or management.

No, you seem to think that it's normal /reasonable so then why don't other elite forwards play that much?

 

[tardigrade81]

If you haven't noticed we do not have enough good wingers for any center(even McD) to "drive" that line.

I like Kassian but I agree.

 

[GMofOilers]

No, you seem to think that it's normal /reasonable so then why don't other elite forwards play that much?

Im saying its not going to affect his performance after 20 games to make him a non factor for the next 15.

Drai has to be better

 

[Missing smitty]

No, you seem to think that it's normal /reasonable so then why don't other elite forwards play that much?

They don't need too? Other teams have more than 3 guys that are threats offensively.

They aren't tired. These guys aren't sitting there smoking in intermissions. They're monitored 24/7, they are told what to eat, when to eat, how to train.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Im saying its not going to affect his performance after 20 games to make him a non factor for the next 15.

Drai has to be better

He needs to be better but he has been overworked big time.

They don't need too? Other teams have more than 3 guys that are threats offensively.

They aren't tired. These guys aren't sitting there smoking in intermissions. They're monitored 24/7, they are told what to eat, when to eat, how to train.

It's because it is not a recipe for long term success and while they are basically well oiled machines, not all machines are build for continuous duty, some need some time to cool off. When your team is down with 5-7 minutes left in the 3rd and you've already played 15 of your 23 minutes chasing the lead how much do you realistically expect them to have left in the tank?

 

[Missing smitty]

He needs to be better but he has been overworked big time.



It's because it is not a recipe for long term success and while they are basically well oiled machines, not all machines are build for continuous duty, some need some time to cool off. When your team is down with 5-7 minutes left in the 3rd and you've already played 15 of your 23 minutes chasing the lead how much do you realistically expect them to have left in the tank?

They barely played in the second period, what's the excuse there? I don't think their play is because they're tired, I think it's frustration creeping in.

 

[Aerrol]

And when he is on the 3rd pairing in the World Juniors and a complete non factor then what? What will your excuse be then?

Man, you should be the HFBoards posterboy. You swing between overly optimistic and unreasonably pessimistic more often than traffic lights change.

Broberg was projected to go first round. He went first round. He's having an OK draft plus 1 year. I didn't love the pick but you're obsessed with calling him a terrible pick whenever things go south for the NHL team. I'm sure if he actually pans out you'll completely forget about all this though.

 

[LaGu]

Man, you should be the HFBoards posterboy. You swing between overly optimistic and unreasonably pessimistic more often than traffic lights change.

Broberg was projected to go first round. He went first round. He's having an OK draft plus 1 year. I didn't love the pick but you're obsessed with calling him a terrible pick whenever things go south for the NHL team. I'm sure if he actually pans out you'll completely forget about all this though.

The thing about this is that it will be easy to be "right" about that 3rd pair comment, even though it is misleading. The Swedish D's for this WJ's are really good this year so it is possible that on paper Broberg will be on the third pair, but in reality the pairs will split time more evenly.

Edit: That's is just to prepare you for the "haha I told you so" moment if Broberg plays on the 3rd pair .

 

[PBandJ]

At this point, whatever. Trade for Hall, trade for whoever, go back in time and get prime Pronger on our top pairing.

I'm close to done with getting my hopes up with this f***ing team.

 

[I am the Liquor]

If you dont think sports science has given a advantage to athletes in the last 20 years, then you should really do some research.

 

[I am the Liquor]

At this point, whatever. Trade for Hall, trade for whoever, go back in time and get prime Pronger on our top pairing.

I'm close to done with getting my hopes up with this ****ing team.

 

[RegDunlop]

They barely played in the second period, what's the excuse there? I don't think their play is because they're tired, I think it's frustration creeping in.

Agreed

I just don't buy the overworked and tired argument. ENTIRELY.
Yes it may be a factor to a point but these guys are machines. Incredible running machines in which Conner and Leon are the top ones. The extra minutes to me are meaningless at times because of the tv timeouts, the mostly offensive zone starts and minutes accumulated on the PP.

I'm not saying it doesn't have an effect, just not as strong IMO. I think - as you say - it's more what's happening in those minutes and the frustration that if they're not producing it's likely a lost cause.

 

[Drivesaitl]

They barely played in the second period, what's the excuse there? I don't think their play is because they're tired, I think it's frustration creeping in.

The two top point producers in the league by a large margin require an excuse?

The excuse is the rest of the lineup is crap. Absolute horseshit. If you're McDrai skating around the ice you probably notice the lineup is crap on a regular basis. That the org are virtually forced to play McDrai together to try to retain some happiness and comfort level in these two players is all that's needed to be seen here. When McDrai are off the ice theres no reason to even watch.

Watching the Oilers today reminds me of when the Oilers first entered the NHL and were allowed to protect 2 skaters. 40yrs later and its really the case today. How much worse could this roster be if they started with McDrai and capspace and just added in the rest of the flyby lineup?

imagine being a kid today and collecting hockey cards. most of these would be in the shredder.

Oh look its Jujhar Khaira, see if you can care-ahh.

Watching the Oilers lineup today is like partying like its 1994, not a very good vintage year..

 

[Drivesaitl]

Agreed

I just don't buy the overworked and tired argument. ENTIRELY.
Yes it may be a factor to a point but these guys are machines. Incredible running machines in which Conner and Leon are the top ones. The extra minutes to me are meaningless at times because of the tv timeouts, the mostly offensive zone starts and minutes accumulated on the PP.

I'm not saying it doesn't have an effect, just not as strong IMO. I think - as you say - it's more what's happening in those minutes and the frustration that if they're not producing it's likely a lost cause.

Smitty is flat out wrong in this. Just because 9-5'ers can work hard at work and break their backs for 8-12hr shifts has no connection with the peak performance world of pro sports. The latter requires not just expenditure it requires PEAK expenditure and ability for the body to generate peak power, peak speed, peak everything and for as long as you can do it. Which in hockey isn't very long, and especially with forwards who through their position will typically go up and down the ice a lot more in 200ft designed play.

Want another example? 100meter dash track meets. Fairly regardless of the runner its extremely important to save yourself for the semifinal and finals if you are an elite runner. You don't replicate top times in every heat and you'd be considered an idiot running flat out in lesser heats when all you have to do is turn on the burners enough to advance. Runners don't do this because they are lazy, they hold back reserves because you can't run the 100M at peak expenditures several times in a day. You just can't, the human body can't. Hey you can run 40 miles at a lesser pace in a marathon but that is NOT the same thing. That is aerobic running. Shifts for players like McDrai run closer to the 100M scenario than to the Marathon. Albeit hockey players through a season are using both energy stores.

Combine that hockey is a really hard sport that involves primarily anaerobic exertion and yet a season could be seen as a marathon. In my experience anaerobic exertion involves longer recovery and is more taxing on the body. Anaerobic exertion requires more recovery time. Hockey is countless episodes of anaerobic exertion. At the NHL level its off the charts exertion and especially for a power forward like Draisaitl.

If it was easy for hockey forwards to play 24 mins a night in a capped league everyteam would be having all their stars doing it. But the mode is shutting down your stars at 20mins and not expecting any more. The coaching mode of forwards use suggests that anything consistently over 20minutes is extreme outlier and to be discouraged. Drai is 4minutes a night above what most stars get, is a power forward, and never misses a game. His toi allotment is insane.

 

[Missing smitty]

The two top point producers in the league by a large margin require an excuse?

The excuse is the rest of the lineup is crap. Absolute horse****. If you're McDrai skating around the ice you probably notice the lineup is crap on a regular basis. That the org are virtually forced to play McDrai together to try to retain some happiness and comfort level in these two players is all that's needed to be seen here. When McDrai are off the ice theres no reason to even watch.

Watching the Oilers today reminds me of when the Oilers first entered the NHL and were allowed to protect 2 skaters. 40yrs later and its really the case today. How much worse could this roster be if they started with McDrai and capspace and just added in the rest of the flyby lineup?

imagine being a kid today and collecting hockey cards. most of these would be in the shredder.

Oh look its Jujhar Khaira, see if you can care-ahh.

Watching the Oilers lineup today is like partying like its 1994, not a very good vintage year..

I think the excuse is frustration at having to carry the team. I don't buy the tired argument, but I would 100% buy the argument that they're tired of doing 90% of the work.

 

[Missing smitty]

Smitty is flat out wrong in this. Just because 9-5'ers can work hard at work and break their backs for 8-12hr shifts has no connection with the peak performance world of pro sports. The latter requires not just expenditure it requires PEAK expenditure and ability for the body to generate peak power, peak speed, peak everything and for as long as you can do it. Which in hockey isn't very long, and especially with forwards who through their position will typically go up and down the ice a lot more in 200ft designed play.

Want another example? 100meter dash track meets. Fairly regardless of the runner its extremely important to save yourself for the semifinal and finals if you are an elite runner. You don't replicate top times in every heat and you'd be considered an idiot running flat out in lesser heats when all you have to do is turn on the burners enough to advance. Runners don't do this because they are lazy, they hold back reserves because you can't run the 100M at peak expenditures several times in a day. You just can't, the human body can't. Hey you can run 40 miles at a lesser pace in a marathon but that is NOT the same thing. That is aerobic running. Shifts for players like McDrai run closer to the 100M scenario than to the Marathon. Albeit hockey players through a season are using both energy stores.

Combine that hockey is a really hard sport that involves primarily anaerobic exertion and yet a season could be seen as a marathon. In my experience anaerobic exertion involves longer recovery and is more taxing on the body. Anaerobic exertion requires more recovery time. Hockey is countless episodes of anaerobic exertion. At the NHL level its off the charts exertion and especially for a power forward like Draisaitl.

If it was easy for hockey forwards to play 24 mins a night in a capped league everyteam would be having all their stars doing it. But the mode is shutting down your stars at 20mins and not expecting any more. The coaching mode of forwards use suggests that anything consistently over 20minutes is extreme outlier and to be discouraged. Drai is 4minutes a night above what most stars get, is a power forward, and never misses a game. His toi allotment is insane.

I'm not saying it's easy, I'm saying that 30ish minutes of peak activity a couple nights a week shouldn't wear out a guy in their early 20s. I've seen firefighters and served with guys that would absolutely destroy professional athletes in any physical activity and they didn't have the benefit of millions of dollars of sports science.

Believe what you want, but this isn't the 80s, these guys aren't crushing darts in the intermission. They aren't tired, they may be mentally tired of carrying 21 other guys, but I highly doubt they're physically worn out.

 

[CycloneSweep]

At least it makes our center depth look good...