Andrew MacDonald

[OlTimeHockey]

I'm curious to see what your plan is, considering you have no faith in the Isles' ability to bring in even decent UFAs; you want A-Mac re-signed; and you don't want Reinhart in the NHL. Essentially you want the same exact defense. You'd rather go in with the same exact defense instead of giving Reinhart a shot?

BTW, what does the Pronger comp. even mean? Does Reinhart have to be Pronger to help this team? Young guys all around the league have helped their teams succeed this year. Defensemen who are the same age as Reinhart. I don't know why it's assumed that Reinhart will be the exception, considering he'll have a full year of development on those guys, and he's just a flat out better prospect than most of them.



What does Larsson have to do with Reinhart? Reinhart's had two full years of development after being drafted. Larsson had zero. In fact, Reinhart has had more development than any defenseman picked in the top-5 since Thomas Hickey(who had an excuse - he regressed). The whole "let's play the kiddies" routine is a joke, and doesn't apply. If anything, the Islanders have been the most cautious team in the league with their high-end prospects - at this point, it will be impossible to rush Reinhart.

like with Nino, Bailey and such......

When Reinhart's ready, he'll play or we'll rush him to replace AMac and make the crowd happy until he struggles and loses confidence and so on.

A little tip: when making an omelet, it's nice if it's not liquid when you finish it. Less of that salmonella risk. The kid's still cooking and looks like he'll be one hell of an omelet. Look at Poulin and Nilsson....BOTH SUCK!!! {they're not ready yet - still growing but are WORTHLESS SCUM already!!!! Let's give that treatment to every kid!}

Be patient. For once. The Isles FINALLY give their kids time and suddenly they're the "most cautious team in the league"????I spit up my coffee reading that!

 

[blinkman360]

The isles are trying to build team using the bare minimum cost associated with it. Wanger has figured out this is OK with the fans because they continue to show up annually. Players also know this - that's why they do NOT sign with the team.

Ever notice how the Isles try for players but get shunned once they use wacky contract methods? Ever notice the Isles are left with scraps in UFA? They may give term to guys that will not get it elsewhere, but so not reward players that are set to earn market value. That sound like a great place to work? Players are loyal to Wanger once they come on board bc he does treat those that are loyal to him well. However, he does not separate the business part of it.

When the Isles got Peca and Yashin it sent a message to the league that they were serious about turning the corner - we know that was all about Wanger and the LHP. Now? It's run in the cheap and is an annual last place finisher except a shortened season. For Xmas sake, the team couldn't even capitalize on the one lone playoff momentum they had. Why? Because Wanger wanted to keep a cap floor budget rather than ammo up and go for it - PAY for better players, create a winning culture, then let the kids grow into that. Rather, isles have this culture of 'the kids will find their way' with little to no veteran leadership. Seriously, the Isles believe Weight is that leader - he's the assistant coach, not a player. That tells you budget backward this team is.

The Isles have been able to sign mid-level guys, and considering they will be forced to spend just to reach the cap floor, I'm really not worried about what might happen this offseason. I can guarantee you they will find someone, as long as they are willing to spend $4M(which is what they offered MacDonald, so I don't see why that would change). Even if it's not Derek Morris, it will be someone.

UFA defensemen currently making under $4M: Tallinder; Hainsey; Sarich; Nikitin; Robidas; Gilbert; Mitchell; M. Greene; Zidlicky; Fayne; Stralman; Corvo; Gill; Morris; Orpik; Hannan; Salo; Ranger; M. Stuart. All of those guys will be in our price range, and all of them can help us(some obviously more than others). Do you think every single one of those players will reject an Isles offer even if it's overpayment?

Worst case, Wang isn't willing to open up the wallet and we settle on a Corvo/Gill/Fayne. Best case, he's willing to go up to $5M or so and we end up with a Nikitin/Morris/Orpik/etc. Either way, I don't see us not adding a veteran of some kind.

 

[blinkman360]

like with Nino, Bailey and such......

When Reinhart's ready, he'll play or we'll rush him to replace AMac and make the crowd happy until he struggles and loses confidence and so on.

A little tip: when making an omelet, it's nice if it's not liquid when you finish it. Less of that salmonella risk. The kid's still cooking and looks like he'll be one hell of an omelet. Look at Poulin and Nilsson....BOTH SUCK!!! {they're not ready yet - still growing but are WORTHLESS SCUM already!!!! Let's give that treatment to every kid!}

Be patient. For once. The Isles FINALLY give their kids time and suddenly they're the "most cautious team in the league"????I spit up my coffee reading that!

I know you assume that all prospects need X years of development before they become a real omelet, but luckily 4th overall picks take a different development route than 4th round picks.

BTW, if the Islanders aren't the most cautious team in the league with their prospects(at least the upper-tier guys, which are who I was referring to), then do you think this is just a coincidence?:

If Reinhart does NOT make the NHL out of camp next year, he'll make 3 of 35 top-5 picks between 2006-2012 to take longer than 2 years to become NHL regulars. All 3 of those players are Islanders. Even though not enough time has passed for the 2013 draft to be included in this, they already have 5 of their top-6 picks in the NHL. Which of those omelets look too liquidy to you? MacKinnon? Barkov? Jones? Lindholm? Monahan?

What about the defenders who are the same age as Reinhart? Which of them happen to be soggy omelets: Murray? Trouba? Lindholm? Rielly?

I'll take your opinion with something other than a grain of salt if you can give me actual reasons why you don't think Reinhart is ready, and why you think things worked out for the other players I mentioned. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure you know nothing about Reinhart(or prospects in general) aside from their D.O.B.

 

[islandermaniac]

Clearly, I'm not a fan of MacDonald but I'd be OK in signing him if he were more reasonable in his asking price. When he turned down 4 years at $4 million per, he officially wore out his welcome for me.

As comparables, both Ryan McDonagh and Cam Fowler make $4 million/year. Is he in that class? A real comparable is the contract that the Flames' Kris Russell just signed...2 years/$2.6 million per.

I agree the team needs defensive depth but when you pay $5 million per season, you expect much more than a depth defenseman. The expectation is of a true top 3-4 defenseman and, on a good team, AMac is no more than a 3rd pair guy.

One should not compare RFA and ufa dollars.

 

[islandermaniac]

The Isles have been able to sign mid-level guys, and considering they will be forced to spend just to reach the cap floor, I'm really not worried about what might happen this offseason. I can guarantee you they will find someone, as long as they are willing to spend $4M(which is what they offered MacDonald, so I don't see why that would change). Even if it's not Derek Morris, it will be someone.

UFA defensemen currently making under $4M: Tallinder; Hainsey; Sarich; Nikitin; Robidas; Gilbert; Mitchell; M. Greene; Zidlicky; Fayne; Stralman; Corvo; Gill; Morris; Orpik; Hannan; Salo; Ranger; M. Stuart. All of those guys will be in our price range, and all of them can help us(some obviously more than others). Do you think every single one of those players will reject an Isles offer even if it's overpayment?

Worst case, Wang isn't willing to open up the wallet and we settle on a Corvo/Gill/Fayne. Best case, he's willing to go up to $5M or so and we end up with a Nikitin/Morris/Orpik/etc. Either way, I don't see us not adding a veteran of some kind.

The isles have signed mid-level guys? Who?

 

[blinkman360]

The isles have signed mid-level guys? Who?

Streit, Guerin, Comrie, Weight. Do they not count?

 

[Riseonfire]

Nikitin would be a huge help on our blueline. Would love for him to replace Amac next year.

 

[bigd]

I think Orpik is a good fit for us on a short contract even though he's a left shot. I could see a D of

Haminic/Orpik
DeHaan /Strait
Visnovski/Hickey
Carkner

That would be a good, tough to play against, top shut down pairing. Pairing DeHaan with a stay at home defender like Strait would allow him to expand his offensive game. And we all know Hickey and Vis play well together. Get a #1 goalie and I think we've improved the team. Are we a Stanley Cup contender, of course not but I think we are greatly improved.
I believe Orpik was brought up in NY also even though he was born in CA.

Then with Reinhart and Donovan in BP, along with the other prospects, we have good depth.

 

[PWJunior]

Nikitin would be a huge help on our blueline. Would love for him to replace Amac next year.

I would love to add Nikitin too, his size would be a big plus for the other smurfs. I don't know if we have a legit shot at him, but we could give him a fair offer and an opening in our top-4. Won't happen though.

I think Garth will be looking for a vet in a situation where a 1-2 year deal would be preferable. I like blinkman's suggestion of Derek Morris, but I don't know if he'd have any interest in us. That's why I think Garth has to trade for a top-4 d-man at the Draft. UFA's should be the frosting, the cake isn't even fully baked yet. We need a foundation piece on the blue line ASAP.

I think there is a strong potential match with Vancouver concerning Edler. He's not a Torts guy and he's having a down year. He may not be a true #1, we wouldn't need him to be. CdH and Hamonic is our shut down pairing and will play the toughest minutes as the already do. While technically the top pair, I feel confident in their ability. Visnovsky needs to be sheltered on the 2nd paring and Edler would give him a very capable partner. Reinhart could be sheltered on the 3rd pairing and should get PK time, I feel more confident that he would do a better job than our current PK defenders as we are last in the league. Hickey/Strait can be very capable 3rd pairing guys and may start out that way with Reinhart getting AHL time.

Offer them picks so they can start to replenish their prospect base. They're not getting our lottery pick, but a 1st round pick or two along with a B-level prospect should be about right in the value department. The Canucks get much needed salary cap relief in the process. It makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[bigd]

I would love to add Nikitin too, his size would be a big plus for the other smurfs. I don't know if we have a legit shot at him, but we could give him a fair offer and an opening in our top-4. Won't happen though.

I think Garth will be looking for a vet in a situation where a 1-2 year deal would be preferable. I like blinkman's suggestion of Derek Morris, but I don't know if he'd have any interest in us. That's why I think Garth has to trade for a top-4 d-man at the Draft. UFA's should be the frosting, the cake isn't even fully baked yet. We need a foundation piece on the blue line ASAP.

I think there is a strong potential match with Vancouver concerning Edler. He's not a Torts guy and he's having a down year. He may not be a true #1, we wouldn't need him to be. CdH and Hamonic is our shut down pairing and will play the toughest minutes as the already do. While technically the top pair, I feel confident in their ability. Visnovsky needs to be sheltered on the 2nd paring and Edler would give him a very capable partner. Reinhart could be sheltered on the 3rd pairing and should get PK time, I feel more confident that he would do a better job than our current PK defenders as we are last in the league. Hickey/Strait can be very capable 3rd pairing guys and may start out that way with Reinhart getting AHL time.

Offer them picks so they can start to replenish their prospect base. They're not getting our lottery pick, but a 1st round pick or two along with a B-level prospect should be about right in the value department. The Canucks get much needed salary cap relief in the process. It makes a lot of sense to me.

Strait is one of our better PK defenders. It's no coincidence the PK went to the dogs when he was out and has been much better since his return. I don't think Hickey is a PK guy, just too small, you need someone that has some reach with his stick. Reinhart may be able to do it in the future but I wouldn't want to give a rookie that kind of responsibility right off the bat.

 

[blinkman360]

I would love to add Nikitin too, his size would be a big plus for the other smurfs. I don't know if we have a legit shot at him, but we could give him a fair offer and an opening in our top-4. Won't happen though.

I think Garth will be looking for a vet in a situation where a 1-2 year deal would be preferable. I like blinkman's suggestion of Derek Morris, but I don't know if he'd have any interest in us. That's why I think Garth has to trade for a top-4 d-man at the Draft. UFA's should be the frosting, the cake isn't even fully baked yet. We need a foundation piece on the blue line ASAP.

I think there is a strong potential match with Vancouver concerning Edler. He's not a Torts guy and he's having a down year. He may not be a true #1, we wouldn't need him to be. CdH and Hamonic is our shut down pairing and will play the toughest minutes as the already do. While technically the top pair, I feel confident in their ability. Visnovsky needs to be sheltered on the 2nd paring and Edler would give him a very capable partner. Reinhart could be sheltered on the 3rd pairing and should get PK time, I feel more confident that he would do a better job than our current PK defenders as we are last in the league. Hickey/Strait can be very capable 3rd pairing guys and may start out that way with Reinhart getting AHL time.

Offer them picks so they can start to replenish their prospect base. They're not getting our lottery pick, but a 1st round pick or two along with a B-level prospect should be about right in the value department. The Canucks get much needed salary cap relief in the process. It makes a lot of sense to me.

I don't see Morris being too hard to get, assuming we are willing to overpay($5M or so per).

Phoenix won't match that... not with an abundance of young D and only one of their top-six contracts coming off the books(Morris). I don't see many Cup Caliber teams coming close to that either, considering most of those teams are too tight to the cap and won't want to spend that kind of money on a guy who, at best, will be 3rd pairing on a great team.

Maybe I put too much stock into this, but I'd prefer a RH over a LH D. We look pretty solid next year on the left side with CdH, Strait, Hickey and Griff. On the right, it's Hamonic, Visnovsky - a huge gap - Carkner. We need someone who can hold down either the 2nd or 3rd pairing RD. Morris fits that perfectly. I'd rather just give him a few extra bucks instead of trading some key assets for a guy like Edler. Josi would be a different story though.

As far as D-pairings, I know everyone is against Reinhart playing on the 2nd pairing, but I don't see how you can play him with anyone other than Visnovsky. The styles alone are a perfect match for one another. Plus the veteran presence, which everyone seems to think is a big deal for rookies coming in to the NHL. Even if it means Hickey-Morris will have to hold down the 2nd pairing for a little bit, while Reinhart-Visnovsky settle in on the 3rd to start the year - IMO it would be worth it.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Streit, Guerin, Comrie, Weight. Do they not count?

That's 5+ years ago, you realize that right?

 

[blinkman360]

That's 5+ years ago, you realize that right?

Is it not valid? Especially considering they were all Snow signings.

..or do you think the Isles are a less desirable place to play now than they were 5+ years ago?

Regardless of how cheap you think the Isles are, the fact is that they have to spend just to reach the cap floor. Money will be offered to these guys, and it's been proven that when the Isles actually offer money to middle-of-the-pack UFAs, they don't have much of a problem signing them.

 

[blitzkriegs]

The Isles have been able to sign mid-level guys, and considering they will be forced to spend just to reach the cap floor, I'm really not worried about what might happen this offseason. I can guarantee you they will find someone, as long as they are willing to spend $4M(which is what they offered MacDonald, so I don't see why that would change). Even if it's not Derek Morris, it will be someone.

UFA defensemen currently making under $4M: Tallinder; Hainsey; Sarich; Nikitin; Robidas; Gilbert; Mitchell; M. Greene; Zidlicky; Fayne; Stralman; Corvo; Gill; Morris; Orpik; Hannan; Salo; Ranger; M. Stuart. All of those guys will be in our price range, and all of them can help us(some obviously more than others). Do you think every single one of those players will reject an Isles offer even if it's overpayment?

Worst case, Wang isn't willing to open up the wallet and we settle on a Corvo/Gill/Fayne. Best case, he's willing to go up to $5M or so and we end up with a Nikitin/Morris/Orpik/etc. Either way, I don't see us not adding a veteran of some kind.

Blinkman when do the Isles overpay UFA's to begin with? Yes, the Isles have to spend and this offseason will be unique for the Isles because they no longer have internal RFA deals coming up of significance that can help pad the floor (Read: Bailey). Moreover, they have gapping hole w/o Moulson and Vanek. The G is a wildcard. So, the Isles do have to spend somewhere and somehow, it will be interesting to see how they do it.

My guess is they make a draft day trade and acquire a signed player with a $4-5 dollar contract in hand. Then, that reduces their requirement to overpay in UFA. Keep in mind, the Isles DO NOT want to overpay in UFA because they feel it upsets their cap floor designed salary structure.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Is it not valid? Especially considering they were all Snow signings.

..or do you think the Isles are a less desirable place to play now than they were 5+ years ago?

Regardless of how cheap you think the Isles are, the fact is that they have to spend just to reach the cap floor. Money will be offered to these guys, and it's been proven that when the Isles actually offer money to middle-of-the-pack UFAs, they don't have much of a problem signing them.

We also had legit superstars in the 80s....is that not valid? Here's my point: we never sign any real difference makers. The only ones we sign are washed up vets (Guerin/Weight), or players on a (usually big) risk: Streit. When's the last time Snow got a "middle player" (think: 2nd liner/2nd pairing defenseman), that was not a risk or a washed up vet?

 

[islandermaniac]

Is it not valid? Especially considering they were all Snow signings.

..or do you think the Isles are a less desirable place to play now than they were 5+ years ago?

Regardless of how cheap you think the Isles are, the fact is that they have to spend just to reach the cap floor. Money will be offered to these guys, and it's been proven that when the Isles actually offer money to middle-of-the-pack UFAs, they don't have much of a problem signing them.

The most recent of your examples , streit, was a winger for Montreal and the nyi assured him that he would be used as a d-man. Furthermore, times change, so I don't see your other examples as valid. Wang and snow have not brought in any viable ufa in the last couple years. This business is about, "what have you done for me lately?" The isles have done nothing. Until they do something even semi-significant, I will disagree with your assertion that the isles don't have much of a problem signing middle of the pack Ufa's.

 

[islandermaniac]

We also had legit superstars in the 80s....is that not valid? Here's my point: we never sign any real difference makers. The only ones we sign are washed up vets (Guerin/Weight), or players on a (usually big) risk: Streit. When's the last time Snow got a "middle player" (think: 2nd liner/2nd pairing defenseman), that was not a risk or a washed up vet?

Pretty sure...never. Ya, never.

 

[Hip Of Rick*]

We also had legit superstars in the 80s....is that not valid? Here's my point: we never sign any real difference makers. The only ones we sign are washed up vets (Guerin/Weight), or players on a (usually big) risk: Streit. When's the last time Snow got a "middle player" (think: 2nd liner/2nd pairing defenseman), that was not a risk or a washed up vet?

Maybe and this is a big stretch, Mike Comrie but he fits more into the risk/last chance type of contract similar to Boyes and PMB

 

[blinkman360]

The most recent of your examples , streit, was a winger for Montreal and the nyi assured him that he would be used as a d-man. Furthermore, times change, so I don't see your other examples as valid. Wang and snow have not brought in any viable ufa in the last couple years. This business is about, "what have you done for me lately?" The isles have done nothing. Until they do something even semi-significant, I will disagree with your assertion that the isles don't have much of a problem signing middle of the pack Ufa's.

Maybe and this is a big stretch, Mike Comrie but he fits more into the risk/last chance type of contract similar to Boyes and PMB

We also had legit superstars in the 80s....is that not valid? Here's my point: we never sign any real difference makers. The only ones we sign are washed up vets (Guerin/Weight), or players on a (usually big) risk: Streit. When's the last time Snow got a "middle player" (think: 2nd liner/2nd pairing defenseman), that was not a risk or a washed up vet?

Just realized that I'm arguing with the biggest pessimists on the board.

I get it. The Isles suck. They will never spend money. Nobody wants to come to LI. Nothing good will ever happen to this franchise, but you'll keep posting here everyday anyway for some reason that I'll probably never understand. I guess I'll just leave you with this..

NYI have one full season left before moving to a new city, with new fans that they would like to draw in. They already offered out about $11M on contracts to Vanek and AMac - money you would assume they are willing to spend elsewhere. They are without their 2015 1st, so you would also assume that they will do everything in their power to make sure that pick doesn't turn into Connor McDavid. Lastly, and most obviously, the raised cap floor.

If you want to believe that none of these things matter, and that they still won't spend - great. I'm just going to stop trying to convince you otherwise.

 

[islandermaniac]

Just realized that I'm arguing with the biggest pessimists on the board.

I get it. The Isles suck. They will never spend money. Nobody wants to come to LI. Nothing good will ever happen to this franchise, but you'll keep posting here everyday anyway for some reason that I'll probably never understand. I guess I'll just leave you with this..

NYI have one full season left before moving to a new city, with new fans that they would like to draw in. They already offered out about $11M on contracts to Vanek and AMac - money you would assume they are willing to spend elsewhere. They are without their 2015 1st, so you would also assume that they will do everything in their power to make sure that pick doesn't turn into Connor McDavid. Lastly, and most obviously, the raised cap floor.If you want to believe that none of these things matter, and that they still won't spend - great. I'm just going to stop trying to convince you otherwise.

a lot of the bold is fair (except for the cap might not go up as much as some people think. i read a report the other day that said the falling canadian dollar could impact that...stay tuned...). isles fans, however, have every reason to doubt the owner and gm of this hockey club when it comes to spending. i won't say that these two won't ever get some quality vets to sign via ufa, because even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and again. i am simply saying that until they do it consistently, i won't be a believer. this is just the same as wanting a player to do something consistently. i don't see why this makes me a pessimist. it's just realism versus your idealism. the world needs a little of both, friend.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

NYI have one full season left before moving to a new city, with new fans that they would like to draw in. They already offered out about $11M on contracts to Vanek and AMac - money you would assume they are willing to spend elsewhere. They are without their 2015 1st, so you would also assume that they will do everything in their power to make sure that pick doesn't turn into Connor McDavid. Lastly, and most obviously, the raised cap floor.

Hold on Blinkman. This past summer they thought they would be walking into a shortened lease (just this year at the Coliseum) yet they still did nothing in terms of spending money. I do agree that they will spend as much as possible to get to the floor, but you know they don't really deserve any credit for that because if they don't spend that much money the league will come in, open Wang's bank accounts, and take the money from him and hand it out to the existing club THEN fine him, and take away picks, etc. Giving Wanger credit for spending up to the floor, and past it some as dictated by the bonus revenue sharing checks he will get for assembling a POS team to begin with, is simply wrong. It's like giving a guy credit for sending his kid to school. He has to do it, or he gets in trouble. No credit deserved for being minimally responsible.

Just saying.

 

[OlTimeHockey]

Hold on Blinkman. This past summer they thought they would be walking into a shortened lease (just this year at the Coliseum) yet they still did nothing in terms of spending money. I do agree that they will spend as much as possible to get to the floor, but you know they don't really deserve any credit for that because if they don't spend that much money the league will come in, open Wang's bank accounts, and take the money from him and hand it out to the existing club THEN fine him, and take away picks, etc. Giving Wanger credit for spending up to the floor, and past it some as dictated by the bonus revenue sharing checks he will get for assembling a POS team to begin with, is simply wrong. It's like giving a guy credit for sending his kid to school. He has to do it, or he gets in trouble. No credit deserved for being minimally responsible.

Just saying.

I want to congratulate all of you for not suffocating.....breathing takes a lot of calories and muscular contractions to do and I just wanted to say I wish you all luck. Pointed stick.....nice work not being mauled by gerbils, too.

 

[bigd]

At some point in the future they are going to spend beyond the cap floor. I just don't believe it's going to be next year.

 

[blinkman360]

Hold on Blinkman. This past summer they thought they would be walking into a shortened lease (just this year at the Coliseum) yet they still did nothing in terms of spending money. I do agree that they will spend as much as possible to get to the floor, but you know they don't really deserve any credit for that because if they don't spend that much money the league will come in, open Wang's bank accounts, and take the money from him and hand it out to the existing club THEN fine him, and take away picks, etc. Giving Wanger credit for spending up to the floor, and past it some as dictated by the bonus revenue sharing checks he will get for assembling a POS team to begin with, is simply wrong. It's like giving a guy credit for sending his kid to school. He has to do it, or he gets in trouble. No credit deserved for being minimally responsible.

Just saying.

Maybe my memory is fading but when did I give him credit for spending to the floor?

 

[blinkman360]

I want to congratulate all of you for not suffocating.....breathing takes a lot of calories and muscular contractions to do and I just wanted to say I wish you all luck. Pointed stick.....nice work not being mauled by gerbils, too.

I'm disappointed in you man. Two posts in the last day about gerbils and omelets but none of the standard 'babies in diapers'. You're slipping.