Andrew Berkshire: Ranking the Top 20 Left Wingers in the NHL, by the Numbers

[V13]

The center by the numbers list was fine. This one not so much

No way in hell that Ovechkin is below Pacioretty , Tatar , Forsberg and Schwartz. I understand that this count transitions , defense etc but Ovi scoring prowess counter balance all that imho

 

[bert]

Ovechkin 10th...

Yeah maybe he needs to reassess his methods.

Lol no kidding. He also isnt using a heavily weighted goals per 60 minutes it appears.

 

[Call me betty*]

If wingers only job was to provide offense, why do lot of the top wingers have solid defensive game. Ovechkin basically floats in the defensive zone, good luck winning the cup with this guy as your captain.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Lol no kidding. He also isnt using points per 60 minutes it appears.

He does. It's divided into goals, primary and secondary assists. As such, it's a point in Ovechkin's favor.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Haven't read the article yet but surprised Steen falls so low defensively. He's usually very good. Must check criteria.

 

[Dbrownss]

The center by the numbers list was fine. This one not so much

No way in hell that Ovechkin is below Pacioretty , Tatar , Forsberg and Schwartz. I understand that this count transitions , defense etc but Ovi scoring prowess counter balance all that imho

This here is key. While you may not like the list. It is statistically based...not opinion based.

Haven't read the article yet but surprised Steen falls so low defensively. He's usually very good. Must check criteria.

I was shocked too...considering the Blues use him in that role. Damn analytics

 

[Trap Jesus]

In order to get Ovechkin 2nd you have to adjust the weights past 80% for offence.

 

[DJJones]

I knew it. Gaudreau is better than Ovechkin!

 

[bert]

I knew it. Gaudreau is better than Ovechkin!

Did you know Tatar is better than Gaudreau and Ovechkin?

 

[TheMule93]

Interesting that Tatar is ranked so high here. He horrifically fails the eye test, for me at least. They say he has good hands, but all he does is turn the puck over whenever he tries to stickhandle. He cant dangle anyone. Hes a slow skater, and he cant win a single puck battle in a corner because he is so small.

That being said, Tatar is by far my least favorite player on the wings so my opinion is prob affected by confirmation bias

 

[Nithoniniel]

Ultimately, these rankings also look at an overview of players. It's how good they are in a vacuum, in the average of circumstances. Someone like Benn is highly ranked because he can do everything, meaning he can fill any role on a line. Ovechkin isn't quite that well-rounded, but if you give him two-way linemates who can transport the puck then he can give you immense impact as a physical beast and as a goalscorer.

It doesn't really matter if Ovechkin would be twice as good at carrying the puck in the neutral zone. Bäckström would still do most of that, and it would still not really do much difference in how impactful he can be. It makes a difference in these rankings though. That becomes a huge factor here.

 

[MardyBum]

Tatar the second best in transition in the entire NHL.

Huh.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Berkshire should stick to ranking hot dogs at all 30 NHL arenas instead of lists like this.

 

[Chaos2k7]

No Barkov or Huberdeau? LOL, come again.

 

[bert]

No Barkov or Huberdeau? LOL, come again.

Barkov plays center. Who on that list is Huberdeau better than exactly? Well outside of top 4 Tatar. Well Kunitz too. Its a strange list.

 

[Trap Jesus]

No Barkov or Huberdeau? LOL, come again.

Might as well complain about Ekblad not being on there while you're at it.

 

[6 Karlsson 5]

Ovechkin at 10. Panarin excluded while Chris Kunitz makes the list. Yeah, not worth reading.

panarin isn't included because he hasn't played 2000 minutes...so maybe you should have read it

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

His method for arriving at a player's defense score seems questionable. When Taylor Hall is considered better defensively than guys like Forsberg, Steen, Palat and Nash among LWers, and Crosby, Giroux, Backstrom, Kopitar, and Toews among C, you know there's a problem with the valuation system, IMO.

 

[6 Karlsson 5]

Id love to hear how many games people have watched of every player on this list. Must have a ton of time on your hands to watch 82 games of 20 different players.

But yes your experience of watching 2 games of each team really gives you insight to rank players. Way more than objective stats do

this....so much this

 

[6 Karlsson 5]

His method for arriving at a player's defense score seems questionable. When Taylor Hall is considered better defensively than guys like Forsberg, Steen, Palat and Nash among LWers, and Crosby, Giroux, Backstrom, Kopitar, and Toews among C, you know there's a problem with the valuation system, IMO.

What's the problem? that it doesn't fit the general opinion? that isn't a problem

 

[AgeOfBennett]

*based on a three year sample*

Gaudreau has only played 2 seasons lol

 

[V13]

This here is key. While you may not like the list. It is statistically based...not opinion based.

I'm one of those who does not value a player based on advanced statistics alone. They are useful but not the end it all of hockey analysis.

If i had to pick a player based on that list alone i would have to pick Tatar over Gaudreau and Ovechkin. No way in hell i'd do that in real life and i doubt any gm would either.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

What's the problem? that it doesn't fit the general opinion? that isn't a problem

First off, you don't see a problem with Hall being considered better defensively than two guys who won Selke awards, and another half dozen guys who are in the running for the Selke in a given season?

Second, people who say "it's not the author's opinion, it's objective numbers" are wrong. The *numbers* may be right, but how the author *applies* them could very well be wrong.

Take a look at his criteria for defense, for instance. Takeaways, hits, and PK minutes have an impact on how good a player is defensively, when in reality those aren't very reliable categories to judge someone on their defense.

He also relies on "relative" numbers, which can hurt a player who plays on a deep team (his relative numbers compared to other great players) and help a player who plays on a bad team (his relative numbers compared to crappy teammates), but doesn't include the raw numbers. Ie. Uses relative team shot attempts against/60, relative team goals against/60, but doesn't use shot attempts against/60 and goals against/60 for the players.

 

[V13]

If wingers only job was to provide offense, why do lot of the top wingers have solid defensive game. Ovechkin basically floats in the defensive zone, good luck winning the cup with this guy as your captain.

It's not but who would you pick : A 40 goals PPG winger who has deficiencies in his own zone or a 20 goals 50 pts winger who is a stud defensively ?

Yes 2 way play is important but sometimes goals and points production difference outweight defensive capabilities. Offense is also part of hockey

 

[Regal]

Defense really shouldn't hold this much weight for wingers. Their job is to score.

It's only worth 15%