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Andrew Berkshire: Ranking the Top 20 Left Wingers in the NHL, by the Numbers

serp

serp

Registered User
Jan 17, 2016
20,699
12,620
Sharp played alot of Right Wing least year on Benn and Seguins line and still listed in the Top 20 LW's ? Guess they go by natural position or something ?

Edit : 3 year sample ok that makes sense.
 
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JaegerDice

JaegerDice

The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
Dec 26, 2014
25,120
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TouchMyCup said:
Ovechkin at 10. Panarin excluded while Chris Kunitz makes the list. Yeah, not worth reading.
Click to expand...

Its based on a 3 year sample. Panarin doesnt qualify.

Ovechkin at 10 makes sense when you factor in defense and transition play.
 
Call me betty*

Call me betty*

Sheary Baggins
Nov 8, 2015
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0
While i'm not a fan of Ovechkin and laugh my ass off when fanboys say he's a solid defensive player. he's still the 2nd best winger in the league behind Benn. But this also proves when a team like the Caps who gets led by someone one dimensional like OV, will never come close to winning the cup. Caps fans don't want to admit it and keep coming back to the "50 goal scorer!!" but in the playoffs, you need to your defensive and neutral zone play to shine, when scoring dries up and in Ovechkin's case, unfortunately,he just doesn't have the hockey IQ to play that type of smart game.
 
Trap Jesus

Trap Jesus

Registered User
Feb 13, 2012
28,686
13,456
Player Ratings in each of the 3 categories:

Player | Offence | Defence | Transition
Skinner | 68.7 | 36.2 | 49.6
Sharp | 62.8 | 30.6 | 63.9
Landeskog | 54.4 | 71.0 | 62.2
Saad | 57.5 | 56.7 | 65.7
Steen | 64.9 | 37.4 | 62.8
Kunitz | 58.1 | 51.0 | 70.0
Foligno | 61.6 | 67.1 | 59.2
Nash | 70.0 | 49.4 | 53.2
Palat | 63.4 | 53.5 | 63.8
Hoffman | 63.3 | 48.9 | 66.7
Ovechkin | 77.1 | 19.1 | 59.5
Schwartz | 63.0 | 53.3 | 68.7
Gaudreau | 65.6 | 37.5 | 73.4
Sedin, D | 60.5 | 68.3 | 70.1
Marchand | 58.4 | 62.1 | 80.6
Hall | 67.3 | 58.5 | 67.8
Tatar | 62.5 | 51.6 | 84.6
Pacioretty | 72.9 | 61.4 | 65.5
Forsberg | 73.0 | 49.1 | 77.8
Benn | 83.9 | 58.3 | 70.0

 
Alexander the Gr8

Alexander the Gr8

Registered User
May 2, 2013
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JaegerDice said:
Its based on a 3 year sample. Panarin doesnt qualify.

Ovechkin at 10 makes sense when you factor in defense and transition play.
Click to expand...

The Capitals' system is designed for him to not have to carry the puck up the ice, that's Backstrom's job.
Coincidentally, in the top 20 C article, Backstrom was ranked as one of the best transition players in the league.

Regarding defense, I don't know how Ovechkin has such a low score. He hits far more than anybody else on the list and has good relative possession stats. He doesn't play the PK, maybe that's why.

In any case, the ranking also disregards the PP stats, where Ovechkin blows everyone out of the water. Too much emphasis on defense and transition, the winger's main role is to produce offense.
 
Bone Breaker

Bone Breaker

Registered User
Apr 2, 2015
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Tokyo
at first, seeing Ovechkin at tenth I was like

Chris-Rock-HUH-WTF.gif


but then I saw Tatar at fourth and understood the article was a joke.

raw
 
Trap Jesus

Trap Jesus

Registered User
Feb 13, 2012
28,686
13,456
Top 20 centers, right wingers and left wingers, rated out of 100 in Offence, Defence and Transition:

Player | Offence | Defence | Transition
Backstrom | 58.9 | 42.8 | 66.5
Barkov | 56.6 | 56.1 | 68.3
Benn | 83.9 | 58.3 | 70.0
Bergeron | 63.2 | 75.2 | 71.4
Couture | 62.3 | 54.1 | 50.5
Crosby | 84.2 | 39.3 | 75.2
Eberle | 56.8 | 40.1 | 60.9
Foligno | 61.6 | 67.1 | 59.2
Forsberg | 73.0 | 49.1 | 77.8
Gallagher | 62.7 | 54.4 | 70.6
Gaudreau | 65.6 | 37.5 | 73.4
Getzlaf | 65.2 | 57.0 | 72.0
Giroux | 62.5 | 44.5 | 68.0
Hall | 67.3 | 58.5 | 67.8
Hoffman | 63.3 | 48.9 | 66.7
Hornvist | 62.6 | 40.7 | 54.7
Hossa | 55.5 | 50.4 | 71.9
Jagr | 58.5 | 52.1 | 79.4
Kane | 82.1 | 27.1 | 76.9
Kopitar | 64.7 | 49.5 | 87.7
Krejci | 57.6 | 49.5 | 66.7
Kucherov | 67.6 | 46.4 | 73.7
Kunitz | 58.1 | 51.0 | 70.0
Kuznetsov | 67.8 | 36.2 | 56.7
Landeskog | 54.4 | 71.0 | 62.2
Mackinnon | 58.3 | 36.8 | 69.5
Malkin | 79.2 | 40.8 | 81.2
Marchand | 58.4 | 62.1 | 80.6
Nash | 70.0 | 49.4 | 53.2
Neal | 66.1 | 41.6 | 66.3
Okposo | 59.7 | 33.9 | 56.0
O'Reilly | 53.8 | 64.5 | 63.2
Oshie | 52.2 | 53.0 | 58.9
Ovechkin | 77.1 | 19.1 | 59.5
Pacioretty | 72.9 | 61.4 | 65.5
Palat | 63.4 | 53.5 | 63.8
Pavelski | 67.6 | 64.5 | 73.7
Perry | 71.8 | 31.3 | 50.3
Saad | 57.5 | 56.7 | 65.7
Scheifele | 61.3 | 44.2 | 66.3
Schwartz | 63.0 | 53.3 | 68.7
Sedin, H | 51.7 | 56.6 | 62.4
Sedin, D | 60.5 | 68.3 | 70.1
Seguin | 81.9 | 29.7 | 56.3
Sharp | 62.8 | 30.6 | 63.9
Skinner | 68.7 | 36.2 | 49.6
Smith, R | 52.4 | 62.4 | 67.4
Smith , C| 57.0 | 39.9 | 62.9
Spezza | 69.9 | 33.8 | 59.7
Steen | 64.9 | 37.4 | 62.8
Stone | 58.9 | 72.6 | 73.2
Tarasenko | 85.1 | 35.2 | 75.7
Tatar | 62.5 | 51.6 | 84.6
Tavares | 78.6 | 35.8 | 66.4
Thornton | 65.4 | 54.7 | 77.4
Toews | 60.3 | 45.2 | 72.9
Toffoli | 67.8 | 52.5 | 81.5
Voracek | 60.3 | 53.7 | 81.6
Wheeler | 67.9 | 62.5 | 66.9
Williams | 49.9 | 43.0 | 75.6

 

nonzerochance

Registered User
May 16, 2016
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9
I'm starting to understand why these lists were released in the order that they were. If this is any indication, the defensemen list will be even more wildly contradictory to expectations based on the eye test.
 
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Nithoniniel

Nithoniniel

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Sep 7, 2012
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DontCallPlayersStuds said:
To those dismissing the list, did you read the article and criteria attached, or just scan the list, see something you didn't like, and post?
Click to expand...

Something like that, I'd guess.

It's not an opinion piece really. It's more of a data dump. One can argues with how they are weighed for sure though. Personally, with how many players are described as "surprising" when it comes to their defensive values, perhaps they don't capture defensive ability as well as you'd like. Or, equally possible, we're generally bad at evaluating defense.

I'd guess a little bit of both.

Guys like Ovechkin are who they are and hold so much value because of the rarity of their extreme competence in one area. It's hard to take that into account, and that's why Kessel is nowhere on the lists and Ovechkin falls.

Eazy for Kuzy said:
Regarding defense, I don't know how Ovechkin has such a low score. He hits far more than anybody else on the list and has good relative possession stats. He doesn't play the PK, maybe that's why.

In any case, the ranking also disregards the PP stats, where Ovechkin blows everyone out of the water. Too much emphasis on defense and transition, the winger's main role is to produce offense.
Click to expand...

Physicality is the lost factor in these. On the other hand, it's been very hard to quantify any particular value in hits at all.

So Ovechkin has a extremely low defensively value because he doesn't play PK, he doesn't win pucks, he doesn't retrieve pucks and he doesn't limit shots and goals against.

I agree that the winger positions could probably rely even less on defense and even more on offense.
 
WhatsaMaatta

WhatsaMaatta

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Feb 2, 2008
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Eazy for Kuzy said:
The Capitals' system is designed for him to not have to carry the puck up the ice, that's Backstrom's job.
Coincidentally, in the top 20 C article, Backstrom was ranked as one of the best transition players in the league.

Regarding defense, I don't know how Ovechkin has such a low score. He hits far more than anybody else on the list and has good relative possession stats. He doesn't play the PK, maybe that's why.

In any case, the ranking also disregards the PP stats, where Ovechkin blows everyone out of the water. Too much emphasis on defense and transition, the winger's main role is to produce offense.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to argue about Ovechkin's place on the list, but we should all agree that hits shouldn't be used as an indicator of how good someone is at defense. Hits alone don't lead to shot suppression or decreased defensive zone time. Hits in the NHL are recorded regardless of how effective they are.
 
Aceboogie

Aceboogie

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Aug 25, 2012
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Id love to hear how many games people have watched of every player on this list. Must have a ton of time on your hands to watch 82 games of 20 different players.

But yes your experience of watching 2 games of each team really gives you insight to rank players. Way more than objective stats do
 
sharks9

sharks9

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Jan 16, 2012
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Canada
Interesting list, and it's nice that Berkshire acknowledges the fact that this ranking underrates Ovi's prolific goal scoring or he would obviously be higher up on the list.

Also as a Habs fan I'm happy to see Pacioretty getting the credit he deserves!
 
ThatSaid

ThatSaid

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May 31, 2015
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Glendale Heights, IL
JaegerDice said:
Its based on a 3 year sample. Panarin doesnt qualify.

Ovechkin at 10 makes sense when you factor in defense and transition play.
Click to expand...

Fair enough on Panarin. For centers, I can understand the extra weight given to defense, but Ovechkin at 10 because of defense doesn't make any sense. Wingers need to produce offense, and Ovechkin is the best goal scorer in the league.

The criteria is flawed, because based on this, Ovechkin is barely a top-10 LEFT wing, and not a top 10 winger overall. That's just stupid, and shows how bad the methodology is for wingers. If offensive production is similar, then you can start looking at other less important factors. The fact is, most of the guys listed above him have no business there. Benn is the only reasonable argument.
 
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