Discussion in 'Tampa Bay Lightning' started by Nautica54, Mar 10, 2017.
I love this. Kid is a true competitor.
Vasi is the best goalie in the league.
A 24 year old goalie has already broken a bunch of franchise records... Vasy is so damn good.
But our goaltending over the years has been so damn bad.
We have had a couple of Gems during our History though. Ben Bishop, Nikolai khabibulin....but Vasi in my mind has already surpassed them both, and just to add to that both of them were damn good goaltenders.
I don't think Vasi has surpassed Bishop yet, Vasy is playing on a significantly better team that Bishop was and hasn't even statistically topped Bishop's best seasons? I mean he's barely keeping up with Bishop this year.
I agree Bishop is still slightly ahead of Vasilevskiy because of the team Bishop played behind. Really enjoyed having him but I think everyone knew eventually Vasilevskiy was going to take over.
All he lacks is Bishop's consistency. And he's getting it, slowly. I think Vasy saves us as much as Bishop did, but Bishop was more workmanlike, punching in and punching out, where Vasy can still lose focus at times. Bishop lost focus too, like how he gave up so many first shot goals, but more often than not he clamped it down after that. Then there was the 3rd defenseman factor.
I think Vasy will eventually become a better goalie than Bishop was/is, but it's easy to forget just how good Bishop was here. Most of the time, anyway.
If you want to isolate this to the regular season, okay.
I think Vasy is the best goalie in the NHL. So, to be clear, I do feel that Vasy will end up being our best netminder of all time. But you can’t put him above the Bulin Wall until he wills us to a Stanley Cup. You take away Khabby from our run and we don’t reach the promised land.
In comparison, if Vasy was locked in against the Caps in game 1 or 7 last season, we may be talking right now as the defending champs. The softies he let in the first periods of those games were back-breaking. Vasy therefore has to take the final step and dominate in the playoffs - consistently dominate, night in and out for the May and June gauntlet. Until that happens, Vasy simply cannot be placed at the top of our franchise’s goalie mantel.
And my comment applies to Bishop, too. Bishop was able to get locked in our 15 run. But injuries stole his glory.
PS. For those of you weren’t around for the 2004 run, it is worth watching Khaby’s magical performance when it mattered. All this discussion about Vasy vs. Bishop shows a recency bias or a simple temporal exclusion that is unfair when we are talking about posterity.
Actually I remember the 2004 season quite well thank you. Vasi is better than what Habi was during those years. You forget that while Habi was having seizures and shutting teams down he would occasionally post up a stinker as well, just like Vasi. We also had Brad Richards who went into god mod that playoffs that more or less willed us. Habi provided excellent goaltending for that to happen yes, but you could make that argument for every goalie that won the cup. (Barring special exceptions.) In equivalent to what that would mean today. You fail to account just how dominant Vinny, Richards and St.Louis were during that cup run. They were all clicking, and all of them were either in their prime or just hitting it. Your overselling him.
I get the arguments about Bishop being better, but not Habi. Sorry.
I completely disagree. In our 4 SCF wins, we won 4-1, 1-0, 3-2 (2OT) and 2-1. BR, of course, played out of his mind for what he was supposed to be. And MSL played well. VL was barely a tick above-average in that series as a whole. But we did not put up huge offensive numbers. Yes, our key players were in or close to their primes. Yet we did not offensively dominate. NK stole most of those games for us. Especially games 4 and 6. We were pummeled all of game 6 on the road in a hazardous environment with a crowd salivating to claim a cup at home.
Also, the 2018-2019 roster beats the 2003-2004 roster in a 7 game series. Perhaps in 6 games. I also think that the 2017-2018 roster wins, too. So pointing to the strength of the 2003-2004 roster does not bolster your argument.
So, again, until Vasy can put the team on his shoulders during the duration of a playoff run, he sits behind NK in the pantheon of TBL goalie-greats. And again, if he came up with a great performance in games 1, 2 or 7 against the Caps last season, our franchise would have another Stanley Cup. I am highly optimistic that he has the experience to take the final step this year. But it comes down to results. Vasy choked last year when it counted. And until we progress to mid-June, it all remains to be seen about his future status. I agree, though, when all is said and done, I fully expect him to be at the top.
Just doing some quick stat checking, save percentage wise Kiprusoff outplayed Habi, actually only 3 goalies during that cup run had a worse save percentage than Habi. If you could provide the game reports. (I've looked. This you can verify by looking at Hockeydb) I would gladly review them over to further your point. Habi was an excellent goalie, but I'm pretty sure your suffering through Nostalgia. This Arguement is like saying Brad Richards is a better hockey player than Kucherov because Richards won a Conn Smythe. It doesn't hold up well. Richards fantastic player, just doesn't equal to Kucherov. The same can be said about Vasi and Habi.
First, your Richards and Kucherov comment is a pure red herring. I have not put forth such an argument.
Second, your attempt to invoke the actual statistics is puzzling. It vastly bolsters my position. NK had 5 shutouts in that playoff run. How many shutouts has Vasy posted during a playoff run? Nothing close - see below. NK posted a 1.71 GAA and a .933% SP during the run. Those numbers are ABSURD for a goalie who played in ALL 4 playoff series. Yes, he was 2nd and 4th in those categories, respectively. But he played the duration of the playoffs. The few goalies who had better numbers didn't even come close to playing the same number of games. Kiprusoff had worse numbers in both of those categories as well.
Let's now compare the Bulin Wall to Vasy's run last playoffs. Vasy played less games of course. We didn't win, as you know. His GAA was 2.58. And his save percentage was .918%. He had 1 shutout.
In short, comparing the 2003-2004 and 2017-2018 playoff performances illuminates that the statistics aren't even close. You can stop now. Vasy has one more step to take. And I hope as much as anyone he takes it this summer.
Well that was quick.
I liked the shoutouts both Coop and Vasy gave to Bishop, honoring the guy as Vasy passed him in SO's.
Actually Vasilevskiy stumbled a bit on the question about things he had learned from Bishop and had to say "next question please" without giving a real answer. But I'm guessing that was him getting caught up in the language difficulties, so certainly can't hold that against him. (It's amazing what these guys can do, picking up a second language as an adult while playing a pro sport -- that is a tall order and really friggin difficult.)
We have a GREAT one on our hands. Thank you YZERMAN for raping Ken Holland by sending Kyle F****** Quincey to him for a 1st rounder. Vasy is our greatest goalie at a young age of 24. I only see his game improving from here.
First, congrats to Vasy for overtaking the regular season shut out record. That is amazing. And to re-iterate, I do think he will end up the greatest goalie of all-time in our franchise's history when all is said and done. That said, I further fell down the rabbit hole and have come away with some pretty striking stats. Look at how the Bulin Wall stacks up against the other Stanley Cup winning goals playoff performances since we hoisted it. Also note Bishop and Vasy's stats in 14/15 and 17/18, respectively. Vasy definitely has to take that next step and will us to a Stanley Cup before he becomes the best ever in our pantheon of great goalies. Right now, the Bulin Wall still indisputably holds that title.
No.GAASPShut Outs11.41 (Quick – 11/12).946 (Quick – 11/12)5 (NK – 03/04)21.55 (Osgood – 07/08).940 (Thomas – 10/11)4 (Thomas – 10/11)31.70 (Murray – 16/17).937 (Murray – 16/17)3 (Murray – 16/17)41.71 (NK – 03/04).933 (NK – 03/04)3 (Osgood – 07/08)51.84 (Crawford – 12/13).932 (Crawford – 12/13)3 (Quick – 11/12)61.97 (Giguere – 06/07).930 (Osgood – 07/08)2 (Holtby – 17/18)71.98 (Thomas – 10/11).924 (Murray – 15/16)2 (Crawford – 14/15)82.08 (Murray – 15/16).924 (Crawford – 14/15)2 (Quick – 13/14)92.14 (Ward – 05/06).922 (Holtby – 17/18)2 (Niemi – 09/10)102.16 (Holtby – 17/18).922 (Giguere – 06/07) 2(Ward – 05/06)112.31 (Crawford – 14/15).920 (Ward – 05/06)1 (Giguere – 06/07)122.58 (Quick – 13/14).911 (Quick – 13/14)1 (Crawford – 12/13)132.61 (Fleury – 08/09).910 (Niemi – 09/10)0 (Murray – 15/16)142.63 (Niemi – 09/10).908 (Fleury – 08/09)0 (Fleury – 08/09)*2.18 (Bishop – 14/15).921 (Bishop – 14/15)3 (Bishop – 14/15)*2.58 (Vasy – 17/18).918 (Vasy – 17/18) 0 (Vasy – 17/18)
So is Vasi a Vezina finalist still despite missing 6 weeks? He's 3rd in sv% behind the Islanders goalies, 4th in GAA, 5th in wins, and tied for first in shutouts.
If he has more wins, I think the missing time factor is nullified.
Remember when Domingue was 3rd in the league for wins? Good times.
Yzerman raped both Holland and whoever was GMing the Aves at the time. Because it was Downie for Quincey, and then he flipped Quincey to the Wings, because the Aves had refused to deal with them. So yeah. SFY was like a Viking that day.
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