Andrei Kostitsyn

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Why are the other 20 years olds I listed not having the same problem them?

My answer is that 2 of them (Staal and Bergeron) are already established as full time NHLers...while the other 2 (Brown and Kesler) spent quite a bit of time in the NHL last year. These are players who already have experience playing at the highest level of competition, so it's no surprise they get ice time. Parise is a great player who is very well rounded in all aspects and Albany is a team that doesn't have a whole lot of center depth, so he plays a ton.

If he warranted top icetime, he could play in the right or they would play another guy on the right.

Well, on the RW side they have Miettinen, another Dallas prospect who they probably promised lots of ice time and he's also been playing very well with Higgins and Plekanec. It would be stupid to break that line up right now.

Ward is the 2nd RW and he's another NHLer and a player who was the AHL MVP 2 years ago.

Those two are always gonna get regular ice time.

You have to understand that Jarvis loves his veterans and experience. Corey Locke was at one point the 1st or 2nd point getter on the team and 75 % of the time he has played on the 3rd-4th line because the team has more experienced centers like Plekanec and Morgan.

The Monarchs have 3 or 4 guys that would be in the NHL and it's not stopping Brown.

I haven't seen or heard a Monarchs game all year, so I ask you was Brown placed on the top lines from the start ? I honestly have no idea who he has played with so I can't comment further.

Remember Hamilton is only 3 games over .500. If they depth chart were are deep as you claim they would be many more games over .500

Hamilton added Miettinen, Komisarek and Begin the last few weeks and they are playing great hockey right now. They were really struggling in the first half but have pulled it together. Right now, they are better than their record indicates with the recent additions IMO. Plus their ''strongest'' position of depth is on the wing with lots of talent and NHL experience.

 

[turnbuckle*]

Tough to compare Kostitsyn's stats this season to Staal's, Brown's Parise's, Bergeron's and Kesler's for several reasons.

First of all, Kostisyn, having just turned 20, played the majority of this season as a 19-year-old. That is not the case for all of the other players except Bergeron, who, by the way, spent ALL of last season in the NHL. Pretty tough to compare a European rookie pro to an NHL vet - for anyone to expect him to match Bergeron's stats THIS season in the AHL is asking alot.

AS well - Staal, Brown, and Kesler all played in the NHL last season, while both Brown and Kesler also spent time considerable time in the AHL. As for Parise, he experienced winning a WJC gold medal, led his college team to a successful campaign, and then practised with the Devils during their playoff run as a callup.

Meanwhile Kostyitsyn was bounced between Russian junior and Vik Tikhonov. He also didn't have the opportunity (like he did this Christmas) to compete in the World Juniors Division I.. As Hab fans will tell you, Kostitsyn game has been noticably improved since playing in the WJC.

So this 19-year-old-kid comes over from Belarus, can't speak a lick of English, is being given five to ten minutes of ice time per night until he better understands the language, and accordingly, Jarvis' defensive system, and some of you are wondering why he's not matching four "former" NHLers in stats?

I daresay the list of past successful 19-year-old European AHL rookies is short to say the least.

 

[King'sPawn]

So this 19-year-old-kid comes over from Belarus, can't speak a lick of English, is being given five to ten minutes of ice time per night until he better understands the language, and accordingly, Jarvis' defensive system, and some of you are wondering why he's not matching four "former" NHLers in stats?

Please, name one person who has wondered why he's not producing as much as four "former" NHLers. We get it. Andrei Kostitsyn is the most skilled prospect to endure these exact set of circumstances of:
- learning a new language
- adjusting to a new game
- having management put him in a role he isn't suitable for
- with a girlfriend who can't make it over
- on an amazingly deep team
- just turning 20
- being epileptic

So we, as non-Hab or Kostitsyn fans, could not possibly fathom what the poor kid must be going through. Did I forget anything else? If Peter Worrell claims he is Andrei Kostitsyn, will AK suffer an identity crisis and thus have his development hampered? Will he become Obsessive Compulsive like Monk, and be unable to continue a game until his socks and jersey are wrinkle-free?

When there is a Kostitsyn montage video, the only suitable music to have in the background is Annie's "It's A Hard Knock Life."

 

[WVP]

When there is a Kostitsyn montage video, the only suitable music to have in the background is Annie's "It's A Hard Knock Life."

:lol Man, I'd hate to be Kostitsyn....

 

[CH Wizard]

Weren't some posters bashing Perezhogin when he wasn't translating well into the N-A style of hockey in the first half of season, over here ?

Kostitsyn just turn 20 and europeans take more time to developp , that's for sure.He isn't playing a big role for the team right now but when all the veterans will be gome , I think the n#'s will come (he'll receive a lot of icetime as well).

 

[Jacob]

It looks more like habs fans vs. habs fans hater then a Kostitsyn debate.

That's not my impression. I see it more as Habs fans vs. realists. I have nothing personal against the Habs team or their fans, but the way some of them trump up their own prospects on these forums is unbelievable. It has to be stopped, and I know I'm not the only one that feels the need to try and bring a prospect's hype back down to earth on these forums.

 

[Old Hickory]

I don't hate the Habs. When has anyone slammed the Habs or their fans in this thread?
It's been about Kostitsyn.

 

[Quiet Robert]

Weren't some posters bashing Perezhogin when he wasn't translating well into the N-A style of hockey in the first half of season, over here ?

I don't see much Kostitsyn basing here though. People are allowed to criticize a prospect, it doesn't mean he's no good. In fact, I don't think anybody said Kost sucks, he's a bust. To me he's a great prospect who's having a tough time adjusting. Did I expect him to come over and dominate, no. That's just not realistic. I did expect a little more though.

The fact is, for a guy who has great offensive skill, regardless of excuses, he isn't producing at a high level. I was hoping for maybe 15+G and around 20A for the year-35+points and solid defensive play. I'm disapointed the offense isn't there, but I'm happy he's playing solid in his own zone.

Of course I would love to see Jarvis give him more ice time, but as someone said, if Kost really was blowing people out the water, he would have top line minutes. This isn't a nock on him. He'll play in the AHL next year, and hopefully he'll be adjusted and he'll put up big numbers. Until then, we just have to hope he learns the NA game and gets better every outing.

 

[Meat Wave]

That's not my impression. I see it more as Habs fans vs. realists.

I see it more as a "Habs fans who have seen and heard about Kostitsyn all season long vs. those who have no idea and only base their opinion on what they heard here and there and on stats" debate. Most of the guys on this thread who are ranting about how much Kostitsyn is overrated haven't seen him all year... so I take all the insults with a grain of salt.

I know I have seen him play almost 10 times so far this year and I don't need any Kings fan or Pens fan who doesn't follow Hamilton Bulldogs hockey as closely as I do to tell me how well Kostitsyn is really progressing...

 

[Souffle]

Some Habs fans have this weird little ritual of seeking confirmation that prospect X is really as good as they would like to think he is. These threads never go anywhere because it's as though some Habs fans are really trying to convince themselves that Kostitsyn is meeting their own expectations.

Anyway, Kostitsyn is an interesting prospect. He has flaws, but Habs management is working on them. He hasn't had a very good season so far in the AHL, but everyone knows that he has good offensive skill. He's just about where he should be for a 1st round pick with his talent and shortcomings.

 

[Jacob]

I see it more as a "Habs fans who have seen and heard about Kostitsyn all season long vs. those who have no idea and only base their opinion on what they heard here and there and on stats" debate. Most of the guys on this thread who are ranting about how much Kostitsyn is overrated haven't seen him all year... so I take all the insults with a grain of salt.

I know I have seen him play almost 10 times so far this year and I don't need any Kings fan or Pens fan who doesn't follow Hamilton Bulldogs hockey as closely as I do to tell me how well Kostitsyn is really progressing...

I've seen him three times, so take my opinion with more than a grain of salt.

 

[CH Wizard]

I've seen him three times, so take my opinion with more than a grain of salt.

Hum , ok but you didn't give your opinion on him yet.You just replied some habs fans who were hyping him a lot.So what do you think of him ?

Three games isn't enough.You've seen him play with the bulldogs and/or in the WJC?

 

[turnbuckle*]

Some more fodder for the "realists"

I'll compare Kostitsyn's situtation to European basketballers.

Martynas Andriuskevicius and Johan Petro are European basketballers slated to go in the top ten of the 2005 NBA draft. Both are 19 years old.

Let's say the NBA went on strike, and those two ended up playing against Lebron James and Chris Bosh in the CBA next season. All would be 20 years of age (or damn close to it). Who would you expect to have more productive "rookie" seasons" in the CBA - the established American NBAers or the raw, unfamiliar Europeans?

Who would be more productive this season in the CBA if the NBA was on strike - Darko Milicevic or Dwayne Wade?


the 2004 NBA draft vs. the Kostisyn/Parise/Kesler draft

Latvian Andris Biedrins was selected 11th overall by Golden State last season. Kostitsyn was 10th overall in the 2003 NHL draft. Later NBA selections included Dorell Wright and Josh Smith, just as Kesler and Parise were picked later than Kostitsyn. Given that Smith and Wright are already making an impact in the NBA, which of those three is most likely to struggle if they were all playing in the CBA next season - the two NBA vets or the fish out of water?

But how could that be if Beidrins was a higher pick? Duhhhhh..............

To dismiss Kostitsyn's situation (a 19-year-old with no english training playing in the AHL) as nothing but Hab fan excuses for his lack of production is only showing ignorance of the situation.

Again - I'd like to see a credible list of 19-year-old Europeans that have lit up the AHL, in particular Europeans with no English training - i.e. Russians. The list is minimal if not non-existent.

 

[HABracadabra]

In any way shape or form, who gives a damn about opinion on Kostitsyn. Habs fan will always give him more credit (as they should, when you're a real fan of your team) Other will find things to criticise (as they should not really giving a rat's ass about the Habs)

Why speculate? is not in the NHL yet, and to see what is a players value, it's the only real set of competition you want to judge a player on.

If you ask me right now the best player in the AHL are Patrice Bergeron, Joni Pitkanen, Jason Spezza etc... why because they proof themselves against the real competition the NHL.

Heck as of right now, Steve Bégin is a better player than thomas Vanek. in time, that assesment will probably not be true anymore, but right now it is.

Maybe Kostitsyn will end up a poor bum in Riga or maybe he will win a Hart trophy, we sure hell don't know, all we can say is professionnal hockey people decided to invest money in the individual we got to give them benefit of the doubt.

Let's be honest here, if the habs would have selected Zach Parise instead and New-Jersey taken Kostitsyn, non-habs fans would be taking Parise size as the worst thing since Charles Manson

 

[Old Hickory]

I see it more as a "Habs fans who have seen and heard about Kostitsyn all season long vs. those who have no idea and only base their opinion on what they heard here and there and on stats" debate. Most of the guys on this thread who are ranting about how much Kostitsyn is overrated haven't seen him all year... so I take all the insults with a grain of salt.

I know I have seen him play almost 10 times so far this year and I don't need any Kings fan or Pens fan who doesn't follow Hamilton Bulldogs hockey as closely as I do to tell me how well Kostitsyn is really progressing...

Where have the two Kings fan in this thread said he hasn't been progressing. The debate has been over ice-time and excuses.
Thanks for putting words in our mouths

Before you make another post in this thread or on this board. quote me or King's Pawn and show us where we said that.

 

[leafaholix*]

Some more fodder for the "realists"

I'll compare Kostitsyn's situtation to European basketballers.

Martynas Andriuskevicius and Johan Petro are European basketballers slated to go in the top ten of the 2005 NBA draft. Both are 19 years old.

Let's say the NBA went on strike, and those two ended up playing against Lebron James and Chris Bosh in the CBA next season. All would be 20 years of age (or damn close to it). Who would you expect to have more productive "rookie" seasons" in the CBA - the established American NBAers or the raw, unfamiliar Europeans?

Who would be more productive this season in the CBA if the NBA was on strike - Darko Milicevic or Dwayne Wade?


the 2004 NBA draft vs. the Kostisyn/Parise/Kesler draft

Latvian Andris Biedrins was selected 11th overall by Golden State last season. Kostitsyn was 10th overall in the 2003 NHL draft. Later NBA selections included Dorell Wright and Josh Smith, just as Kesler and Parise were picked later than Kostitsyn. Given that Smith and Wright are already making an impact in the NBA, which of those three is most likely to struggle if they were all playing in the CBA next season - the two NBA vets or the fish out of water?

But how could that be if Beidrins was a higher pick? Duhhhhh..............

To dismiss Kostitsyn's situation (a 19-year-old with no english training playing in the AHL) as nothing but Hab fan excuses for his lack of production is only showing ignorance of the situation.

Again - I'd like to see a credible list of 19-year-old Europeans that have lit up the AHL, in particular Europeans with no English training - i.e. Russians. The list is minimal if not non-existent.

Johan Petro sucks... after that comment, I stopped reading.

No source has him as a top 10 pick in 2005 anymore.

 

[King'sPawn]

Some more fodder for the "realists"

I'll compare Kostitsyn's situtation to European basketballers.

Martynas Andriuskevicius and Johan Petro are European basketballers slated to go in the top ten of the 2005 NBA draft. Both are 19 years old.

Let's say the NBA went on strike, and those two ended up playing against Lebron James and Chris Bosh in the CBA next season. All would be 20 years of age (or damn close to it). Who would you expect to have more productive "rookie" seasons" in the CBA - the established American NBAers or the raw, unfamiliar Europeans?

Who would be more productive this season in the CBA if the NBA was on strike - Darko Milicevic or Dwayne Wade?


the 2004 NBA draft vs. the Kostisyn/Parise/Kesler draft

Latvian Andris Biedrins was selected 11th overall by Golden State last season. Kostitsyn was 10th overall in the 2003 NHL draft. Later NBA selections included Dorell Wright and Josh Smith, just as Kesler and Parise were picked later than Kostitsyn. Given that Smith and Wright are already making an impact in the NBA, which of those three is most likely to struggle if they were all playing in the CBA next season - the two NBA vets or the fish out of water?

But how could that be if Beidrins was a higher pick? Duhhhhh..............

To dismiss Kostitsyn's situation (a 19-year-old with no english training playing in the AHL) as nothing but Hab fan excuses for his lack of production is only showing ignorance of the situation.

Again - I'd like to see a credible list of 19-year-old Europeans that have lit up the AHL, in particular Europeans with no English training - i.e. Russians. The list is minimal if not non-existent.

You still don't get it. We aren't ASKING for any type of explanation. WHO has called Kostitsyn a bust, or even criticized Kostitsyn, in this thread? We are saying he isn't earning his ice time. It's that simple.

Oh, and we also said 3 points in 10 games isn't "lighting it up."

The whole stats and comparisons to other 20 year-olds in the AHL were started when Hab fans either asked for examples or used stats to defend Kostitsyn who... again... was never attacked! Yet somehow, in the world of you in particular, anyone who doesn't think the excuses fly for limited ice time, is ignorant.

 

[Jacob]

Hum , ok but you didn't give your opinion on him yet.You just replied some habs fans who were hyping him a lot.So what do you think of him ?

Three games isn't enough.You've seen him play with the bulldogs and/or in the WJC?

My opinion is that he's a talented kid who is being VASTLY overrated, mostly by Habs fans.

Let's be honest here, if the habs would have selected Zach Parise instead and New-Jersey taken Kostitsyn, non-habs fans would be taking Parise size as the worst thing since Charles Manson

So you DO think there is some conspiracy against the Habs?

 

[Ross MacLochness]

Jesus H.

My fellow hab fans...

What in the world can be accomplished by a thread like this?

 

[not quite yoda]

Look guys.

I am 100% a habs fan. I hope as much as anyone else that Kostitsyn is a boom and develops into a smaller Marian Hossa. And yes, I do agree that he should be getting far more ice time. Especially since his return from the WJC.

But frankly, He has greatly disapointed me since he started in the AHL. As someone said, if he truely deserved 1st line ice time, he would have it by now. As Perezhogin had massive ice time by the end of his 1st year when he was ripping up the league. AK has a long way to go. From the Hamilton games I've watched this year, he is far from a dominant force and he does float a la Stephane Richer from time to time.

 

[tml_4ever]

We just gotta see what the future brings

 

[turnbuckle*]

I guess if you're expecting a 19-year-old European to light it up in the AHL, then he has indeed been disappointing.

I believe it is indeed far too early to judge him one way or another. Next year will be a far better barometer for what we can expect from him at the NHL level, IMO. If he's still receiving only a handful of minutes per game and pots less than 20 goals, then he'll be considered a disappointment, even by his more ardent fans.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Again - I'd like to see a credible list of 19-year-old Europeans that have lit up the AHL, in particular Europeans with no English training - i.e. Russians. The list is minimal if not non-existent.

You've asked this question a couple of times. I thought I would would address it quickly. And you've partly answered it.

But your question is slanted. Because the list of prospects who respond to your criteria is so restrictive, it is almost non-existent *whether they light up the AHL or not*.

Since you've mentioned this at least three times, my suggestion to you is to go through each draft, and select prospects that are similar to Kost. The prospects should probably:

1-Be 1st round drafted offensive forwards
2-Be Euros in their first North American season
3-Be 19-20 years old during that season

Then you can always try to dig information to figure out their language problems but that may prove a bit more complicated than expected. If you insist, you can drop all the 18-19-20 years old Euros who jump right in the NHL, such as Havlat, Kovalchuk, etc. and cooncentrate on those who play solely in the AHL, but that will restrict your pool of candidate.

Just take a look at drafts from 1993 to 2003, that should give you a good sample. The list will be very thin *whether they light it up or not*. Once you have the sample, we can talk and see how easy or difficult this is.

Personally, I see many Euros make the jump to North America successfully. But they may not fit your criteria. Some of them jump to juniors prior to the draft. Some of them jump to the NHL as soon as they are drafted.

Off the top of my head, Euro forwards of roughly the same age who have successfully made the jump to North America recently include Havlat, Kovalchuk, the Sedins, Antropov, Gaborik, Semin and Zherdev, who comes from the same draft as Andrei "Oh my God! He is the most talented player of the draft but he fell because of epilepsy" Kostitsyn.

There are few people who light up the AHL responding to the exact Kost criteria because:

1-There are few people who respond to those criteria period
2-There are few people who light up the AHL period, at any age or from any country. Otherwise it wouldn't be called lighting it up, it would be called "getting by".
3-There are few Euros OR North American 19 years old in the AHL.

I say work out a precise list and see what you can come up with. I'm sure the list could be interesting. If it is done objectively, we can only all benefit from it.

But by the look of it, my impression is that you are setting up questions in order to get the answers you are looking for. No offense intended but it just looks that way to me.

 

[Freaky Habs Fan]

Then he is obvisous lacking a defensive game

Once again...he deserved more time, he would be moved off a checking line.

Carpentier isn't a good hockey player and he will never play in the NHL...guess what, he's on the second line.

Ott is playing great but he don't put the puck in the net to often. He's a great checker...guess what, he's on the second line.

Ward is in a scoring slump lately. He don't have a good season at all for an AHL MVP...guess what, he's on the second line.


Locke is one of the best AHL rookie. Playing on the fourth line, he's able to produced very well. This guy is an awesome playmaker and he would put much more points on the board if he was playing on the second line.

Kostitsyn is now good on the defensive side of the game. He have an awesome shot and he can set up a play. He deserve to play more. He's really good along the board and he would be the perfect partner for Locke. But Jarvis is playing safely. He don't want to have to many rookie on his top lines. Locke and Kostitsyn deserved more ice time!

Hamilton is now at 1 point from a playoff spot so we can't expect Jarvis to give more ice time to the players that deserve it

 

[cassius]

Somehow I predict that this thread has turned into a leafs vs. habs war