Player Discussion: Anders Lee

[IslandersFan17]

I added to my post. But after last year's debacle with the Rattlesnake, anyone who is holding out for loyalty from either side is looking for unicorn and rainbows. Loyalty a nice narrative and a feelgood story but at the end of the day I'd let a player go if I could replace him with a better player.

Okay

 

[Le Grec]

Offensively, who's performance was mind-blowing this season? We can easily say that Barzal regressed because he didn't approach the numbers from his rookie season. Yet, no one is stating that.

And yes, his playoff performance was not great, which is why I emphasized "regular season" in my post.

Barzal had a good year, regardless of points.
I think that's the problem with some regarding Lee. Stats aren't the end all. Takeaway Lee's 28 goals, was he noticeable?

It's the classic Moulson debate some of us had years ago. Some saw a 30 goal scorer, some saw a useless minor leaguer.
I'm not saying Lee is as bad as Moulson, but he's still a very limited player, and I'm thankful it seems like Lou understands that also...

 

[IslandersFan17]

Offensively, who's performance was mind-blowing this season? We can easily say that Barzal regressed because he didn't approach the numbers from his rookie season. Yet, no one is stating that.

And yes, his playoff performance was not great, which is why I emphasized "regular season" in my post.

I would venture a guess that's because one is a 22 year old multifacted center and the other is about to be 29 (July 3rd) who is one dimensional winger.

It's easier to justify the point totals going down for Barzal, as a Centers defensive responsiblity is more than that of a winger.

Moreover, Barzal received Selke votes while Lee didnt. Showing who truly stepped up their defensive game.

 

[Strummergas]

While Lehner basically says he doesnt care what the deal looks like. So again, he pumped his chest out that he was this loyal guy, and we saw Nelson and Eberle take lesser deals to stay with the team, while Lee wants to stand his ground.

I mean, honestly, I'm messing around about the loyalty. I'm not holding Lee to that, and Lee has every right to try and receive what he feels he deserves.

However, in the same breath, there is something to be said to at least three players (if you include Lehner) who have fully bought in...

There's more to Lehner's situation than there is for Lee though. He's got other concerns that go beyond money and term. Yeah, the other two took their deals before hitting the market, but the team offered them what they were looking for. That hasn't been the case for Lee as of yet. We'll see what happens....

 

[crasherino]

If you want loyalty buy a dog. This is business. The players are in the business of making the most money they can and using whatever leverage they have. Lou Lamoriello is in the business of making the Islanders better than the year before.

For the record I want Lehner back because I think he's better than Varlamov or any of the other UFA goalies. I want Lee back because I don't see a UFA coming here who will replace his 102 goals the last 3 years, and while I would take a swing at offer sheeting Marner, I think it's a pipe dream that Toronto doesn't match and retain him.

So much this. There seems to be a backlash on this board against Lee for some reason on account of him not being signed. If you look at the takes on him at the end of the regular season vs. now, its pretty shocking. If people want to base their newfound anti-Lee stance on his playoff performance, that's ok- you're entitled. Thats a pretty small sample size though. I think his past few years - or his performance this immediate year - should probably trump an 8 game universe. There are a lot of guys (Eberle for one) who didn't perform in the playoffs....until they did. Oshie would be another.

If Lee is holding out for an Evander Kane+ deal, I'm fine with letting him go. You can't hand him a blank check. But if he's ultimately willing to take a 6 year deal, I'd happily have him back. The guy knows how to score goals. That's something we need on this team. He's healthy as a horse and strong as an ox. I can easily see that carrying on until his early 30s.

 

[Strummergas]

SThere seems to be a backlash on this board against Lee for some reason on account of him not being signed. If you look at the takes on him at the end of the regular season vs. now, its pretty shocking. If people want to base their newfound anti-Lee stance on his playoff performance, that's ok- you're entitled. Thats a pretty small sample size though. I think his past few years - or his performance this immediate year - should probably trump an 8 game universe. There are a lot of guys (Eberle for one) who didn't perform in the playoffs....until they did. Oshie would be another.

As I've stated before, this is residual anger and resentment over Tavares leaving last year. The fanbase is a scorned lover who swore they'd never be hurt like that again.

 

[crasherino]

As I've stated before, this is residual anger and resentment over Tavares leaving last year. The fanbase is a scorned lover who swore they'd never be hurt like that again.

Last off season, Staple put the price tag at 7 or 8 years at over $7m. He's been getting a lot of flak recently, but he may have been on point here.

If that's truly the case and the Islanders knew it, I'm fine with Islanders making a tough decision if that's where they land. But considering they knew it was a real possibility that it would go down like this, I'm less fine with making him Captain. It wasn't a necessity. In my mind, you make the guy Captain in that situation when you know he's your guy long term and he'll be a part of righting the ship, having some real stability....not a guy who you'll let walk because you won't meet his demand.

That's my only (or main) problem if this situation goes south and he ends up leaving.

 

[Strummergas]

I would venture a guess that's because one is a 22 year old multifacted center and the other is about to be 29 (July 3rd) who is one dimensional winger.

It's easier to justify the point totals going down for Barzal, as a Centers defensive responsiblity is more than that of a winger.

Moreover, Barzal received Selke votes while Lee didnt. Showing who truly stepped up their defensive game.

I mean, Barzal got ONE 2nd place Selke vote....

Besides, Centers win the award the vast majority of the time. It takes an exceptional winger to win this award (a la Jere Lehtinen who won it 3 times, and was the last winger to do so back in 2003).

 

[IslandersFan17]

I mean, Barzal got ONE 2nd place Selke vote....

Besides, Centers win the award the vast majority of the time. It takes an exceptional winger to win this award (a la Jere Lehtinen who won it 3 times, and was the last winger to do so back in 2003).

Thats the point tho, I'm more inclined to believe a center has a bigger impact defensively than a winger. In turn seeing Barzal's numbers dip can more be correlated to defensive play, than Lee. Not saying Lee is a slouch defensively, but again a center you can see more why the numbers dipped.

 

[Strummergas]

Last off season, Staple put the price tag at 7 or 8 years at over $7m. He's been getting a lot of flak recently, but he may have been on point here.

If that's truly the case and the Islanders knew it, I'm fine with Islanders making a tough decision if that's where they land. But considering they knew it was a real possibility that it would go down like this, I'm less fine with making him Captain. It wasn't a necessity. In my mind, you make the guy Captain in that situation when you know he's your guy long term and he'll be a part of righting the ship, having some real stability....not a guy who you'll let walk because you won't meet his demand.

That's my only (or main) problem if this situation goes south and he ends up leaving.

The captaincy thing is a bit weird, but ultimately, I don't think it's that big of a deal. And in Lee's case, it seemed like he was head and shoulders above everyone else for the position as indicated by Trotz at the beginning of last season. If the players wanted him to be their captain, do you deny them this wish because the guy might walk out the door at the end of the season? I don't think that's very good for team moral.

 

[crasherino]

The captaincy thing is a bit weird, but ultimately, I don't think it's that big of a deal. And in Lee's case, it seemed like he was head and shoulders above everyone else for the position as indicated by Trotz at the beginning of last season. If the players wanted him to be their captain, do you deny them this wish because the guy might walk out the door at the end of the season? I don't think that's very good for team moral.

JMO....you go into the season without a Captain, which is the way things are headed in the league now anyway. Its not like the players WANTED him to be Captain - if there was to be a Captain, he was the choice. And his Captaincy elevated him to a more important role with the team - something that they'll be losing (both tangible and intangible) if he leaves. They will of course move on, but its something. He was hand picked by the team to be a formal leader and now he's kicked to the curb. Of course that's not reality (its business), but that is the way its perceived.

But, I'm not suggesting that him being Captain is the reason you keep him. Its just that I would have done this differently taking in the whole picture.

 

[Strummergas]

Thats the point tho, I'm more inclined to believe a center has a bigger impact defensively than a winger. In turn seeing Barzal's numbers dip can more be correlated to defensive play, than Lee. Not saying Lee is a slouch defensively, but again a center you can see more why the numbers dipped.

I understand. And I do not believe that Barzal regressed at all. I think the offensive downturn was a result of a team defense emphasis. Yes, Centers absolutely have more of an impact on the defensive side of the game, but that's not to say that everyone did more defensively than they did during the Cappy/Weight run-and-gun years.

 

[Strummergas]

JMO....you go into the season without a Captain, which is the way things are headed in the league now anyway. Its not like the players WANTED him to be Captain - if there was to be a Captain, he was the choice. And his Captaincy elevated him to a more important role with the team - something that they'll be losing (both tangible and intangible) if he leaves. They will of course move on, but its something. He was hand picked by the team to be a formal leader and now he's kicked to the curb. Of course that's not reality (its business), but that is the way its perceived.

But, I'm not suggesting that him being Captain is the reason you keep him. Its just that I would have done this differently taking in the whole picture.

I get you. Perhaps going with 3 alternates might have been the smarter move in retrospect, but I don't believe anyone outside the fanbase is going to perceive Lee moving on after being named captain as anything other than business.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Last off season, Staple put the price tag at 7 or 8 years at over $7m. He's been getting a lot of flak recently, but he may have been on point here.

If that's truly the case and the Islanders knew it, I'm fine with Islanders making a tough decision if that's where they land. But considering they knew it was a real possibility that it would go down like this, I'm less fine with making him Captain. It wasn't a necessity. In my mind, you make the guy Captain in that situation when you know he's your guy long term and he'll be a part of righting the ship, having some real stability....not a guy who you'll let walk because you won't meet his demand.

That's my only (or main) problem if this situation goes south and he ends up leaving.

More captain ridiculousness. It doesn't matter nearly as much as you and others think. I'm not saying he's not respected by his peers and a positive in the room, but his ascension to that role was hardly an organic thing. He became captain for one reason; to create a sense of stability in the wake of the the JT debacle.

 

[MJF]

So much this. There seems to be a backlash on this board against Lee for some reason on account of him not being signed. If you look at the takes on him at the end of the regular season vs. now, its pretty shocking. If people want to base their newfound anti-Lee stance on his playoff performance, that's ok- you're entitled. Thats a pretty small sample size though. I think his past few years - or his performance this immediate year - should probably trump an 8 game universe. There are a lot of guys (Eberle for one) who didn't perform in the playoffs....until they did. Oshie would be another.

If Lee is holding out for an Evander Kane+ deal, I'm fine with letting him go. You can't hand him a blank check. But if he's ultimately willing to take a 6 year deal, I'd happily have him back. The guy knows how to score goals. That's something we need on this team. He's healthy as a horse and strong as an ox. I can easily see that carrying on until his early 30s.

I think there’s 2 things at play on this board. People judging Lee on 2 bad weeks in the playoffs and creating a simile to Matt Moulson, and a bit of resentment from Tavares. It’s clouding people’s common sense.

 

[crasherino]

I think there’s 2 things at play on this board. People judging Lee on 2 bad weeks in the playoffs and creating a simile to Matt Moulson, and a bit of resentment from Tavares. It’s clouding people’s common sense.

He puts that puck in instead of hitting the outside of the net, the narrative is completely different here. Game of inches truly.

 

[ndgolden]

Both Lehner and Lee have two common denominators that always complicate negotiations. Both players really, really want to be Islanders. GM's always have leverage when they know a player is emotionally vested in their current team. Lou is using this as he should to generate a sizable contract discount but its to what degree before a player simply can't pass up another offer. Lee and Lehner would be bad at poker IMHO.

 

[crasherino]

Both Lehner and Lee have two common denominators that always complicate negotiations. Both players really, really want to be Islanders. GM's always have leverage when they know a player is emotionally vested in their current team. Lou is using this as he should to generate a sizable contract discount but its to what degree before a player simply can't pass up another offer. Lee and Lehner would be bad at poker IMHO.

Lehner is in a worse position, IMO. He's got the mental health aspect where other teams are probably reticent to commit long term.

Lee has options and can go a number of different ways if the Islanders don't pony up to the point where he believes its acceptable. Lee has always been a straightforward, no nonsense guy. He took a smaller deal off his ELC in order to renegotiate more quickly, it paid off and he got paid. I have no idea where he's drawing the line in the sand but I doubt he'll cave too much here. Whether he gets 7 years, I don't know. But I really doubt he takes 5. He'll likely go somewhere else before he does that. 6 years seems like a win for everyone in this situation. But if he ends up getting 7 years - here or elsewhere - we'll know he has some poker acumen.

 

[Islanders4Cups]

More captain ridiculousness. It doesn't matter nearly as much as you and others think. I'm not saying he's not respected by his peers and a positive in the room, but his ascension to that role was hardly an organic thing. He became captain for one reason; to create a sense of stability in the wake of the the JT debacle.

Andes Lee as captain has a role on this NHL hockey team other than what you state. Everyone was on board from GM, to coaching staff, to the locker room. This is more important on this team where there are many issues other teams don’t have. (Ie. Brooklyn vs Nassau County)

The team came off it best season since the 80s. Anders Lee shares credit in that.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Andes Lee as captain has a role on this NHL hockey team other than what you state. Everyone was on board from GM, to coaching staff, to the locker room. This is more important on this team where there are many issues other teams don’t have. (Ie. Brooklyn vs Nassau County)

The team came off it best season since the 80s. Anders Lee shares credit in that.

Every person in the organization shares credit in that. We'll just have to disagree as to what share AL is responsible for. And, of course, this will be interpreted by many as a knock on AL. It is not. He was a good captain and would be again if he stays, but if we do lose him, I don't think the fact that he is captain makes much of a difference, if any. The players know it's a business. It's next man up and move on.

 

[Newsworthy]

I'm not against Lee at all despite the playoffs. He is insane in front of the net and has such quick hands and great reflexes. Guys like him are very useful. But for what he brings and how long he will sustain that level of play I don't feel he is worth the price tag. It's years as much as salary that concern most fans.
Also he is acting more like the Leafs players. Trying to squeeze every cent out of management.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

More captain ridiculousness. It doesn't matter nearly as much as you and others think. I'm not saying he's not respected by his peers and a positive in the room, but his ascension to that role was hardly an organic thing. He became captain for one reason; to create a sense of stability in the wake of the the JT debacle.

If it was stability they were after with the captaincy, they wouldn’t have given it to a UFA. He became captain because he deserved it.

Doesn’t mean they should give Lee the moon but it matters more than you and others think. At least perception-wise.

 

[Uncle Duke]

If it was stability they were after with the captaincy, they wouldn’t have given it to a UFA. He became captain because he deserved it.

Doesn’t mean they should give Lee the moon but it matters more than you and others think. At least perception-wise.

It matters even less perception-wise. As I said, the players know what's what. It's just one more thing for fans and the media to obsess over.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Th

It matters even less perception-wise. As I said, the players know what's what. It's just one more thing for fans and the media to obsess over.

That’s the problem. They know what’s what. And they don’t want to come here. Losing Lee isn’t going to help.

 

[Uncle Duke]

That’s the problem. They know what’s what. And they don’t want to come here. Losing Lee isn’t going to help.

Losing Lee will matter if it is perceived that the Isles low-balled him based on the skills and production he brings. Losing him as captain won't matter one bit in whether other players come here or not.