Analyzing Dubas's performance II - (Full Analysis)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Leaf Fans

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
19,937
8,425
I've waited 53 years for that and 2 years ago we were going in the right direction. You must be young enough to wait 53 more years. Unfortunately, for me and many others here, we don't have that much time. I hold Mr. Shanahan and Mr. Dubas totally responsible for this failure. Enjoy this year's ticker tape parade.
You have a right to your opinion. It is just that you appeared to not know the name of the GM. . This post shows that you do. I am hopefully going to hang on for 53 more years - that would put me over the century mark. There are 31 other teams to support. If it causes distress to cheer for this one, regardless of your age, you can choose another one. It really shouldn't be a big issue. We didn't win, we try again next year. The front of the sweater is more important than the back.
 

Havoc

Registered User
Jul 25, 2009
7,301
7,537
Barrie had the whole hockey world fooled.

Hard to call out Dubas on that one. 9/10 hockey fans were jealous we got Barrie.

Pretty sure we are all shocked. He did NOTHING the universe was told he excelled at with certainty. We knew he was soft but we also "knew" we were getting precision outlets from him.


What a betrayal.
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
48,760
11,331
Then get creative...move Dermott out too for a package...Sakic didn't give Duchene away when they had a falling out...Dubas should have taken a page from him...Dubas didn't bring back any toughness while trading Kadri, and in fact, made this team even more buttery soft...when Babcock talked about their PP as their toughness, I swear he must have been paraphrasing Dubas.
So now we're using our best asset to upgrade our bottom pair left side, which is our strongest, and trying to flip a bottom pair left D for a top 4 RD, assuming the games we played with Sakic paid off and they didn't just move on. Seems like we're reaching a bit on this one
 

killer1980

Registered User
Sep 15, 2014
1,888
1,439
Kirkland Lake
You have a right to your opinion. It is just that you appeared to not know the name of the GM. . This post shows that you do. I am hopefully going to hang on for 53 more years - that would put me over the century mark. There are 31 other teams to support. If it causes distress to cheer for this one, regardless of your age, you can choose another one. It really shouldn't be a big issue. We didn't win, we tr My posts are mere borny again next year. The front of the sweater is more important than the back.

I would be close to 130 so I don't think that is going to happen. I actually attended every game of the Stanley Cup Final in 1967 against the Canadiens. Went to Montreal for games 1,2 & 5 as well as games 3,4 & 6 in T.O. Trust me, there is no bigger Leaf fan than me. I even worked at HNIC. It saddens me what has become of this franchise. I honestly believe that 90% of the posters here could have done a better job than Mr. Dubas. My posts are merely born of frustration. Forgive me.
 

Superstar

"Be water, my friend."
Jun 25, 2008
12,443
8,522
So now we're using our best asset to upgrade our bottom pair left side, which is our strongest, and trying to flip a bottom pair left D for a top 4 RD, assuming the games we played with Sakic paid off and they didn't just move on. Seems like we're reaching a bit on this one

It seems like the person who's been reaching is Dubas. I like the guy as a person, but the team he has put into place is not working.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Polaris1010

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
48,760
11,331
Barrie had the whole hockey world fooled.

Hard to call out Dubas on that one. 9/10 hockey fans were jealous we got Barrie.

Pretty sure we are all shocked. He did NOTHING the universe was told he excelled at with certainty. We knew he was soft but we also "knew" we were getting precision outlets from him.


What a betrayal.
He really looked like a different player here
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
48,760
11,331
It seems like the person who's been reaching is Dubas. I like the guy as a person, but the team he has put into place is not working.
Agreed and I want to see changes. Hoping the ones he makes this year work out better than last.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
40,269
10,155
Barrie had the whole hockey world fooled.

Hard to call out Dubas on that one. 9/10 hockey fans were jealous we got Barrie.

Pretty sure we are all shocked. He did NOTHING the universe was told he excelled at with certainty. We knew he was soft but we also "knew" we were getting precision outlets from him.


What a betrayal.

Quite a few people here were not fooled. PS. Jake Gardiner is a really good Dman.
 

TML11

Registered User
Feb 11, 2017
506
340
I think the bottom line is this:
You can't trade for character. It has to come from within.

These players were given all the wanted right away. There was no incentive to play to their potential. They played when they felt like it , not when they needed to !

Teams that win cups win from some intangible desire that is not found in stats/analytics/whatever you want to call it.... this team has it stands today just doesn't have it.
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
48,760
11,331
I think the bottom line is this:
You can't trade for character. It has to come from within.

These players were given all the wanted right away. There was no incentive to play to their potential. They played when they felt like it , not when they needed to !

Teams that win cups win from some intangible desire that is not found in stats/analytics/whatever you want to call it.... this team has it stands today just doesn't have it.
If they aren't willing to push themselves after being paid, they were never the right ones in the first place
 

sparxx87

Don Quixote
Jan 5, 2010
13,834
4,705
Toronto
Barrie had the whole hockey world fooled.

Hard to call out Dubas on that one. 9/10 hockey fans were jealous we got Barrie.

Pretty sure we are all shocked. He did NOTHING the universe was told he excelled at with certainty. We knew he was soft but we also "knew" we were getting precision outlets from him.


What a betrayal.
Barrie has never been a great puck mover so I don’t know why anyone would have been expecting precision outlet passes. He’s a puck carrier/transporter whose good in transition and good at jumping up in the play.

I think the confusion came when he was lauded as a guy who’d improve ‘right side zone exits’ ... people got this idea that he was going to turn defense into offense but he’s never been good at the defense thing so that was always pretty unrealistic.
 

Pucker77

Registered User
May 10, 2012
1,757
408
Minnesota
I personally like Kyle Dubas, he is a personable, well spoken guy and he seems to do right by the players (like staying with Mikheyev at the hospital for a few days) which I believe is huge for developing a good reputation as a team and organization. However, with that said, there are some things that could definitely do better in the future.

His negotiation tactics have been underwhelming. The fact that Marner contract details leaked out for over a year and a half made the final deal look very bad (originally Marner wanted $9 mil but Leafs said no, then Marner had his big year and his holdout). The Tavares negotiation leaks made him look better though (Tavares turned down 7 yrs @ $13 mil from the Sharks).

And while the Muzzin deal has been very good for the team. Dubas in the past 2 trade deadlines did done nothing to bolster the Leafs obvious lack of depth on defense. 2 years ago Gardiner was already out with a back injury and Dermott got hurt right after the deadline but Dubas did not try to build any depth in case of injury. And this year the Leafs had Rielly, Muzzin, and Ceci out yet still did not try to find help at the deadline.

If Dubas paid the low price to acquire a depth guy like Beaulieu last year or the modest price for a RHD like Demelo this year, I think the Leafs would have beaten Boston last year and beaten Columbus this year.

Those are my 2 biggest pet peeves about Dubas. I think he has the potential to be a very good GM in the NHL, we as Leaf fans just happen to be dealing with the growing pains of him learning how to do his role properly.
 

biotk

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
7,091
5,520
Buffalo
Barrie had the whole hockey world fooled.

Hard to call out Dubas on that one. 9/10 hockey fans were jealous we got Barrie.

Pretty sure we are all shocked. He did NOTHING the universe was told he excelled at with certainty. We knew he was soft but we also "knew" we were getting precision outlets from him.


What a betrayal.

Barrie fooled me before he came. Amazingly he still fooled a number of fans in the second half of the season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Havoc

Superstar

"Be water, my friend."
Jun 25, 2008
12,443
8,522
I personally like Kyle Dubas, he is a personable, well spoken guy and he seems to do right by the players (like staying with Mikheyev at the hospital for a few days) which I believe is huge for developing a good reputation as a team and organization. However, with that said, there are some things that could definitely do better in the future.

His negotiation tactics have been underwhelming. The fact that Marner contract details leaked out for over a year and a half made the final deal look very bad (originally Marner wanted $9 mil but Leafs said no, then Marner had his big year and his holdout). The Tavares negotiation leaks made him look better though (Tavares turned down 7 yrs @ $13 mil from the Sharks).

And while the Muzzin deal has been very good for the team. Dubas in the past 2 trade deadlines did done nothing to bolster the Leafs obvious lack of depth on defense. 2 years ago Gardiner was already out with a back injury and Dermott got hurt right after the deadline but Dubas did not try to build any depth in case of injury. And this year the Leafs had Rielly, Muzzin, and Ceci out yet still did not try to find help at the deadline.

If Dubas paid the low price to acquire a depth guy like Beaulieu last year or the modest price for a RHD like Demelo this year, I think the Leafs would have beaten Boston last year and beaten Columbus this year.

Those are my 2 biggest pet peeves about Dubas. I think he has the potential to be a very good GM in the NHL, we as Leaf fans just happen to be dealing with the growing pains of him learning how to do his role properly.

He's got a philosophy and he's dead set on it...it ain't working very well right now, and if he sways from that philosophy, he might as well quit because he would be admitting he's wrong. I'm not sure what cards he got left to play without trading Nylander or Marner because the team is cash strap to the cap with players to sign, and a defense to fix going into next season and there's no relief due to covid. I guess he could trade both Johnsson and Kapanen.

Not making the playoffs, losing Barrie for nothing, seeing his wonder boy Marner being mediocre after that lucrative contract, and surrendering the #13 pick to Carolina is the worse outcome that could have happened.
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

Registered User
Jun 17, 2010
45,603
14,464
He hasn't been good enough, and I know that there are A LOT of Dubas ass kissers here but the reality of the situation is he hasn't done a good enough job.

If he had he wouldn't allow the Leafs to be in a situation where the Leafs defense is ONE injury away from being completely f***ed but it is and he's allowed that to be case that's the reality of the situation, and we know it because we watchef it happen the SECOND Muzzin went down that defense was ROYALLY f***ED and why because Martin Marincin is NOT an NHL defense men he is NHL the first guy that should go in if there is a single injury but he is on this team because Dubas hasn't done a good enough job adding NHL depth to the defense, if there was NHL quality depth on defense, even ONE guy, they don't blow that 3-0 lead and instead are playing tomorrow.

But they don't have anybody that can fill in if there is an injury so Marincin went in and they f***ing blew it and that's Dubas's fault.

DO NOT come at me with Ceci are Barrie either because they won't be back they DO NOT count.

that whole right side needs to be fixed including Justin Holl if your name isn't Rielly Muzzin or Sandin you need to go.

It shouldn't be that way but the reality of the situation is it is that way because Kyle Dubas hasn't added enough quality defensive depth and it cost them a series.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rumman

Pucker77

Registered User
May 10, 2012
1,757
408
Minnesota
He's got a philosophy and he's dead set on it...it ain't working very well right now, and if he sways from that philosophy, he might as well quit because he would be admitting he's wrong. I'm not sure what cards he got left to play without trading Nylander or Marner because the team is cash strap to the cap with players to sign, and a defense to fix going into next season and there's no relief due to covid. I guess he could trade both Johnsson and Kapanen.

Not making the playoffs, losing Barrie for nothing, seeing his wonder boy Marner being mediocre after that lucrative contract, and surrendering the #13 pick to Carolina is the worse outcome that could have happened.

Dubas has shown a penchant for being creative in the past when it comes to salary cap navigation. Let’s see what he does this offseason before we say he has no choice but to trade Marner or Nylander.

LTIR sucks to deal with, but if push comes to shove, the Leafs can find another LTIR deal or two to create space.

As for your last comment, at the time of the pause the Leafs had an 85% chance to make the playoffs, would they have made it without the break? Who knows, but playing a playoff series to miss the playoffs is a tough argument. Everyone knew Barrie was not going to stay. The Avs has to retain 50% of his salary for him to come here originally and within a week reports were coming out that he wanted 8+ mil a year. The Leafs were never keeping him for more than 4 mil even if he played well.

But with all that said, I agree that Marner being less impressive this year and using a 1st to get rid of Marleau sucked.
 

Superstar

"Be water, my friend."
Jun 25, 2008
12,443
8,522
Dubas has shown a penchant for being creative in the past when it comes to salary cap navigation. Let’s see what he does this offseason before we say he has no choice but to trade Marner or Nylander.

LTIR sucks to deal with, but if push comes to shove, the Leafs can find another LTIR deal or two to create space.

As for your last comment, at the time of the pause the Leafs had an 85% chance to make the playoffs, would they have made it without the break? Who knows, but playing a playoff series to miss the playoffs is a tough argument. Everyone knew Barrie was not going to stay. The Avs has to retain 50% of his salary for him to come here originally and within a week reports were coming out that he wanted 8+ mil a year. The Leafs were never keeping him for more than 4 mil even if he played well.

But with all that said, I agree that Marner being less impressive this year and using a 1st to get rid of Marleau sucked.

LTIR doesn't create extra cap space and can't be used unless the team has the cap space to take on that contract...Clarkson's contract was brought in so that the Leafs ensured themselves to have spent to the cap before the season started, so that they could fit Marner into the roster when his deal got done. It's also why Marleau had to be shipped out.

Dubas is in tough this offseason...let's see what he does...but he needs to fix this defense first and foremost.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: rumman

Polaris1010

Registered User
Mar 23, 2017
3,800
1,300
grandma's cellar
He hasn't been good enough, and I know that there are A LOT of Dubas ass kissers here but the reality of the situation is he hasn't done a good enough job.
Never understood the ass kissing.

He's just the GM, and a very below average one too.

He traded Kadri for Kerfoot, then gave the latter a raise. How is that a good hockey move? Couldn't he try to trade Kadri for someone else?

Matthews, Tavares, Kadri was the best 1-2-3 up the middle I ever seen in the NHL. That was reduced to a team that could not score an even strength goal in two straight elimination games.

Haha!

Only the Leafs.

Sorry Dubi, you had your chance, and you blew it. People will be laughing about your moves probably forever.

:thumbd:
 

Polaris1010

Registered User
Mar 23, 2017
3,800
1,300
grandma's cellar
Dubas is in tough this offseason...let's see what he does...but he needs to fix this defense first and foremost.
Why keep him around?

All Dubas did was sign the smallest team in the league to long term contracts.

Anyone of us here could have done that.

They results speak for themselves.

If the MLSE was a normal organization, the incompetence in upper management would be cleaned out ASAP.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stamkos4life

mikeyz

Registered User
Dec 3, 2013
7,310
6,357
He's got a philosophy and he's dead set on it...it ain't working very well right now, and if he sways from that philosophy, he might as well quit because he would be admitting he's wrong. I'm not sure what cards he got left to play without trading Nylander or Marner because the team is cash strap to the cap with players to sign, and a defense to fix going into next season and there's no relief due to covid. I guess he could trade both Johnsson and Kapanen.

Not making the playoffs, losing Barrie for nothing, seeing his wonder boy Marner being mediocre after that lucrative contract, and surrendering the #13 pick to Carolina is the worse outcome that could have happened.

Bang on.
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

Registered User
Jun 17, 2010
45,603
14,464
Why keep him around?

All Dubas did was sign the smallest team in the league to long term contracts.

Anyone of us here could have done that.

They results speak for themselves.

If the MLSE was a normal organization, the incompetence in upper management would be cleaned out ASAP.

I believe every GM deserves ONE season with their coach that said if no progress is made next season he's got to go
 

TheGreatOne11

Registered User
Jun 29, 2009
3,099
3,969
Toronto
You have a right to your opinion. It is just that you appeared to not know the name of the GM. . This post shows that you do. I am hopefully going to hang on for 53 more years - that would put me over the century mark. There are 31 other teams to support. If it causes distress to cheer for this one, regardless of your age, you can choose another one. It really shouldn't be a big issue. We didn't win, we try again next year. The front of the sweater is more important than the back.

Blind patriotism eh? Not allowed to file grievances with the team? If their play doesn't effect you and drive you nuts from time to time are you even a fan? This man doesn't need to be told the history of the maple leaf and we can go golfing next year, he knows what's up.

You're allowed to openly challenge your beleaf in the team and not be told you can cheer for someone else when he's feeling a certain way about a team he's been supporting for 53 years.

Maybe if we started questioning the team more vocally and with our pockets long ago, we'd have a cup by now.
 

Dekes For Days

Registered User
Sep 24, 2018
20,238
15,399
Even a team like Tampa Bay will sell off guys like Boyle, Bishop, JT Miller to keep fueling the system when things aren't looking good. Not Toronto.
Boyle and Bishop were traded when they were well out of the playoffs. Miller was traded out of cap necessity.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad