Analyzing Dubas's performance - (Full Analysis)

[Martin Skoula]

in the Mathews contract thread it was endlessly argued that you base a contract on goals per 60 and nothing else , Marners goals per 60 doesn't get him over 5/6 m but i'm guessing we'll ignore those arguments , lol

how about Kucherov , why does he deserve 1m more than him ?

Drais/Pasta , why does they deserve to make millions less than Marner ?

Why does Barkov make less than half of what McDavid makes? Is McDavid twice as good as a 90+ point Selke finalist?

 

[hotpaws]

So your complaints for Dubas are 1.2 mil retention, a backup goalie, the fact that cap inflation exists, trading away a 13th forward, and trading away an AHLer for a 13th forward.

How has he not been fired yet? Someone get him out of Toronto before he makes another devastating AHLer for AHLer trade!

you forgot trading a good 2nd line center for nothing

getting bent over by giving up a 1st to dump Marleau when all his supporters were saying we could dump him for scraps

having the team regress in the 2 seasons he was GM

i have a question for you however , do you understand Dubas is just an employee of the team and the team and him aren't one entity ?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

you forgot trading a good 2nd line center for nothing

getting bent over by giving up a 1st to dump Marleau when all his supporters were saying we could dump him for scraps

having the team regress in the 2 seasons he was behind the bench

i have a question for you however , do you understand Dubas is just an employee of the team and the team and him aren't one entity ?

You are losing this debate skoula is all over you dude ha

 

[hotpaws]

Why does Barkov make less than half of what McDavid makes? Is McDavid twice as good as a 90+ point Selke finalist?

you're the one who keeps using only players who make over 10m as comparable's so maybe you should just answer why Marner deserves to make more than guys like Pasta and Kuch

 

[Dekes For Days]

when the insiders come out and say it "rumored" then it should all be lumped in one pile

Something reported before a signing, in detail, by multiple sources, as the situation was developing is not the same thing as a vague unsubstantiated rumour that makes no sense spread by one questionable source well after the fact.

and how did low balling MM work out for the team ?

There is no evidence that anybody was low-balled.

Dubas thought he could throw a blank check at JT then do a "we vs me'' media campaign to get the kids who led us out of the toilet and to our best season ever to take sub market deals to make up for paying Johnny the 2nd highest cap hit in the league . Too bad it back fired and the kids took turns bending him over .

This is a grossly inaccurate description of the events that transpired. There was no blank cheque. There was no media campaign. There was no push for Leaf players to get sub-market deals. Nobody "bent Dubas over".

 

[hotpaws]

You are losing this debate skoula is all over you dude ha

yup , and Burke's massive fan club used to be all over me as well . lol , i wonder where they all went ?

but hey if you think we won the Kadri deal then i really don't know what to say

 

[Dekes For Days]

Alienating 50% of your audience seems unwise.

Alienating 50% of the audience? It wasn't even a political issue, and all he did was like a tweet.

 

[Dekes For Days]

-traded a late 1st and 2nd for a num 1 goalie and signed him to a team friendly deal
-signed Kadri and Rielly to team friendly deals

None of those were team friendly deals. Especially not the goalie contract. That could have easily turned out horrible, for an unproven player.

you compare him to similar rfa's like Rantanen

Okay, we do that, and see that Marner is significantly better than Rantanen. What next?

Dubas f***ed up our backup goalie situation then couldn't correct it for free in the summer

He did not mess up our backup goalie situation; he made the correct call that didn't work out. Hutchinson was not bad for us last year.

Brown and Hyman had decent rookie seasons and LL signs them for low/mid 2's , Mango and Kap have decent rookie seasons and Dubie gives them mid 3's , lol and also signs a useless Kerfoot to the same

Johnsson and Kapanen were better than Brown and Hyman, and the cap has gone up. Kerfoot is not useless. Nothing wrong with those contracts.

trades Levio for a useless smurf , lol who cares

Apparently you care, by bringing up a minor deal, where both players are fairly inconsequential.

also how do lose a deal when all you traded was Marchment ?

What are you even talking about? That was a good trade.

Kadri for Barrie and Kerfoot , f***ing brutal deal

Nothing wrong with this deal. Widely praised at the time.

in the Mathews contract thread it was endlessly argued that you base a contract on goals per 60 and nothing else

Lol, no, it wasn't.

Drais/Pasta , why does they deserve to make millions less than Marner?

Because they weren't as good players when they signed, and the cap goes up.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

yup , and Burke's massive fan club used to be all over me as well . lol , i wonder where they all went ?

but hey if you think we won the Kadri deal then i really don't know what to say

I’m just picking. The kadri deal was the biggest disaster of his G.M career to date. Thats the biggie. I hate that deal. There is a article on canoe for yesterday i believe. Kerfoot didn’t like the year he had much in the article. Thats good, hate to see him being happy with that after losing Kadri.

Kadri was gone soon as that second suspension happened. He dealt him out of anger and rushed it. Bad bad move

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

great thread, rational analysis.

 

[Mitch nylander]

great thread, rational analysis.

Thank you sir.

 

[ottomaddox]

Marchment for Malgin

Lindholm for Petan


These might have seemed like small trades. No. Underlying these were big losses and big mistakes.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marchment for Malgin
Lindholm for Petan

These might have seemed like small trades. No. Underlying these were big losses and big mistakes.

Lindholm and Marchment were both nothing players and liabilities on the ice. Both Malgin and Petan, in their limited time, provided more value to the team. Trading Lindholm also allowed Moore to get a spot.

 

[Mitch nylander]

Marchment for Malgin

Lindholm for Petan


These might have seemed like small trades. No. Underlying these were big losses and big mistakes.

In what world are they mistakes? Let alone big ones.

Getting an nhl body for a guy who legitimately cannot skate in Marchment is a minor win. Marchment will never be an nhl player, at age 24 (turning 25 in June), his skating is super substandard. At least malgin can skate and not look out of place. He's played 192 games in the NHL to prove that.

Lindholm for Petan is as much of a nothing trade as possible. Lindholm was a ufa would have likely walked. If we resign him, we don't get spezza it's as simple as it gets. He was as average as it gets. He's still a depth player/healthy scratch for Boston. Petan is someone who is far more skilled, but just lacks opportunity here. He's the type of top 6 or bust type of guy. I'd rather take my chances on him than Lindholm.

I'm not trying to be rude or start an argument. But to say that these are not minor deals, and are major losses is an extremely irrational opinion.

If you could please elaborate on why these deals are sooooooo poor please let me know.

Lindholm and Marchment were both nothing players and liabilities on the ice. Both Malgin and Petan, in their limited time, provided more value to the team. Trading Lindholm also allowed Moore to get a spot.

Well said. Exactly my thoughts as well.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Marchment for Malgin

Lindholm for Petan


These might have seemed like small trades. No. Underlying these were big losses and big mistakes.

Welllllllllllll the the ole dark rums got a hold me! No they were not were they

 

[meefer]

I like a lot of what Lou brought to the team.
I like a lot of what Kyle has done so far.
Neither was, nor will been perfect.
Progress isn't linear.
Mistakes happen.
Patience.

 

[rent free]

Marchment for Malgin

Lindholm for Petan


These might have seemed like small trades. No. Underlying these were big losses and big mistakes.

nope. try again

 

[meefer]

Sorry, deleted because it was indecipherable.

 

[meefer]

Defence 17/18	Defence 19/20	Defence 20/21
Borgman	Barrie	Dermott
Carrick	Ceci	Holl
Dermott	Dermott	Lehtonen
Gardiner	Holl	Liljegren
Hainsey	Liljegren	Marincin
Holl	Marincin	Muzzin
Marincin	Muzzin	Rielly
Polak	Rielly	Rosen
Rielly	Rosen	Sandin
Rosen	Sandin	xxx
Zaitsev

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I don't see one year where these can be considered 'really good' as far as known quantities are concerned. I do believe that we're moving in the right direction. Will changes be made? Quite possibly. If a trade or two occurs, or a free agent signed, hopefully either/both will improve the overall strength of our defensive corp. What I like about next year's group is that there is the potential for improvement. Outside of Marincin and Rosen, there is the chance to see every player on the list get better, I can't say that with the same conviction about the prior year's lists. I would like to see a solid RD addition, the better the player, the happier I'd be, I'm just unsure of how to acquire that player. Based on the chart above, I'm happy with the direction Dubas is heading, but would suggest he's not yet finished in producing the final product.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Marchment for Malgin

Lindholm for Petan


These might have seemed like small trades. No. Underlying these were big losses and big mistakes.

wtaf?

 

[WolfBlitzer]

Marchment for Malgin

Lindholm for Petan


These might have seemed like small trades. No. Underlying these were big losses and big mistakes.

Let me guess, because Marchment was "Tough, you think he was some important player. He's a plug. Malgin is better.

 

[WolfBlitzer]

I really hate when people compare contracts of guys who signed years ago to our players' deals.
Brad Marchant has a "Steal of a deal" because he was a late bloomer and had worse stats than Wiliam Nylander when he signed and the cap was much lower and so were salaries.
Same with Mckinnon. He was a 60 point forward.

Marner had over 90 point season. Matthews was the best 5 on 5 goal scorer not just in the NHL but since Lindros.

Also, deals the Leafs have seen as "Steals",(Kadri, Rielly) were not seen as that at the time and now are do to the fact they got better and salaries/cap rose. The exact thing has already started happening within a year to Nylander.

 

[ACC1224]

What would be considered Dubas’ worse move to date?

Backup situation?
Adding a 1st to dump Marleau?
Keeping Babcock?
Nylander negotiations?
Marner contract?
Something else?

 

[Mess]

Marner is not over overpaid. He’s great. I’ll flat out say he isn’t.

So RW Kucherov puts up 41 goals 128 points leads the NHL in scoring takes home the ..

• NHL Most Points (Art Ross Trophy) (128)
• NHL Most Valuable Player (Hart Trophy)
• NHL MVP Selected by NHLPA (Ted Lindsay Award)

He signs for 8 years at $9,500,000 AAV with a C.H.%

: 11.95 ..

Which of course logically sets the ceiling for all wingers unless your Dubas who then gives Marner inexplicably a 6 year @ $10,893,000 AAV with a C.H.%

: 13.37 ..
(This after failing to secure Marner for a 8 year X $8.5 mil deal the previous year, which resulted in a +$2.393 mil overpayment/year in direct comparison to Marner alone for next 6 years and missing 2 more UFA years on the end).

Then TB ignores that nonsense and signs Brayden Point (who has nearly identical #'s) to Marner to a 3 year bridge deal @ $6,750,000 AAV with a C.H.%

: 8.28

Then Colorado tosses out the Marner contract as an anomaly using Kucherov as the ceiling, resigns Rantanen to a 6 year @ $9,250,000 AAV with a C.H.%

: 11.35

Its really shouldn't come as no surprise that TB and Colorado sit in the TOP 5 in the NHL standings and are among the top Cup contenders and one and only 1 of these contracts stands out like a sore thumb because its nonsensical when using player comparables and stats to sign future contracts.

 

[DatSnipeMatthews]

What would be considered Dubas’ worse move to date?

Backup situation?
Adding a 1st to dump Marleau?
Keeping Babcock?
Nylander negotiations?
Marner contract?
Something else?

In terms of worst moves
1) Marner contract.
2) Trading Kadri for a horrible, short-term return. Could have gotten way more.
2) Nylander negotiations.
3) 1st to dump Marleau. If he didn't overpay for the big 3, we could have kept Marleau and the 1st for 1 more year.
4) Backup situation.
5) not inking Matthews to a longer term contract at that price tag.