Speculation: All things Spezza Round II - This time it's business!

[StefanW]

I don't know which day, but it will happen in the early afternoon. That is just how he rolls.

 

[StefanW]

It is hard to believe that we are likely in the last week of having Spezza on the team.

 

[Xspyrit]

We generally have two trains of thought .... 1) Spezza is still a high end, PPG, #1 center and we should get a great return for him; and 2) Spezza is broken down, one dimensional and the market for him is dramatically reduced by his NTC so our return will be modest at best.

Now - I'm in camp #2.

My question is: when the deal finally goes down and (assuming) we do get a modest return, will people in camp #1 view this as proof that they were wrong? Or will it be proof that Bryan Murray is a bad GM?

The Ottawa GM is going to get what the market has to offer, it's a simple as that. The market dictates the value of a player and not the opposite. No one is going to do some Jedi Mind tricks on Murray

The problem is the paranoia microscope in Canadian hockey cities, over-analyzing everything via those technology machines ends up giving up way more blame and credit to GMs than they should get. Yes they have some impact on the situation, but to me the context they are in often have more impact than they do themselves.

Note : reality is almost always closer to the middle than the extremes, so in the middle of 1) & 2)

I just believe we can go farther with a stronger D than with a direct 1 for 1 C replacement. The fact that we have a ton of D signed and we still have gaping holes there reflects more on how poor Murray has been at building it.

This is a budget team. Can't fix all the holes, unfortunately.

Every time I see a contradiction I immediately think of that song : "Walking Contradiction", by Green Day - not sure why though, cool song

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Why are people not liking the idea of Oshie coming back? A marketable player who only makes 4 million for next 3 years and can rack up 60 points while playing the way MacLean wants to a T? Could also be lethal combination with Zibanejad.

You say yes and don't even think about it. That's if we can even get him.

I still think a trade won't happen. Murray has already stated that he does not have to trade him if the trades will not help out the team. It is not like the heatley situation where Murray was forced to make a trade.

If a trade does not happen between now and the draft, i doubt it will happen at all imo.

There has been wayy too much said and too much interest clearly in display for something not to go down.

 

[Senscore]

Every time I see a contradiction I immediately think of that song : "Walking Contradiction", by Green Day - not sure why though, cool song

Do you really think that the Phillips deal was prudent given the financial situation of this team?

Murray has been throwing limited cash at the wrong people. I probably should have clarified that.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Why are people not liking the idea of Oshie coming back? A marketable player who only makes 4 million for next 3 years and can rack up 60 points while playing the way MacLean wants to a T? Could also be lethal combination with Zibanejad.

You say yes and don't even think about it. That's if we can even get him.

He hit 60 points - once - this past season. This could very well have been his career year as a player. Projecting him to be a 60+ point guy in the future is risky. And, people are still waxing on about the guy because of the Olympics. People need to take a step away from that (international ice, rules et all) and focus on what he really is as a player.

He's a decent guy all right, but not what we should expect for a PPG 1C. Buying in on a guy at the absolute highpoint of his career is a disaster in the making.

 

[Micklebot]

Do you really think that the Phillips deal was prudent given the financial situation of this team?

Murray has been throwing limited cash at the wrong people.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think the going rate is for a veteran #6 D that brings leadership is?

The team likely knew that we were going to lose our captain to trade, and wasn't going to bet on landing a suitable replacement via UFA, or trade.

I also think people are too quick to judge Phillips performance this year; the team was a mess, and while he was a part of it, it made him look worse than he actually is. Put him on a team that plays a solid system and he'd look fine.

 

[Micklebot]

He hit 60 points - once - this past season. This could very well have been his career year as a player. Projecting him to be a 60+ point guy in the future is risky. And, people are still waxing on about the guy because of the Olympics. People need to take a step away from that (international ice, rules et all) and focus on what he really is as a player.

He's a decent guy all right, but not what we should expect for a PPG 1C. Buying in on a guy at the absolute highpoint of his career is a disaster in the making.

He hit 54 2 years ago paced at 55 last year and hit 60 this year. He's 27, so there isn't much of a reason to expect regression either. He plays in Hitch's system, which while they scored a ton this year, isn't known as an offensive system. He also didn't get an unreasonable amount of PP time (usually between 2:30 - 2:45) so no reason not to expect him to continue getting that opportunity.

While 60+ might be on the high side of realistic expectations, he's not far off that.

Sure we shouldn't be happy with that kind of return for a pt/g player, but it seems pretty evident that we wont be happy no matter what we get back; you seldom are when you're moving the best player involved.

 

[Derivation]

Oshie for Spezza would be a reasonable move. If we can get Michalek re-signed at a decent value that would give us a fairly decent top 6. I know many of you feel Z-Bad isn't ready for top 6, but when will he be? If isn't going to be a 2C on this team he will somewhere else.

 

[HSF]

The budget talk is getting so repetitive and stupid. We get it we aren't a cap team it is tiring coming here and seeing everything shot down cause people actually think they know what the budget is set at.


No one outside of a few ppl in the sens organization actually know the budget for next year....

 

[Derivation]

I think patience with Z-Bad is probably the best thing we can have for the kid. I mean look at Bonk. 4 seasons of average/below average performance before he picked up. I remember going to games and people started bringing his name up as he was improving and really noticing him more, and I feel that Zibanejad will be the same way, if not an even better offensive centre.

 

[Busboy]

The budget talk is getting so repetitive and stupid. We get it we aren't a cap team it is tiring coming here and seeing everything shot down cause people actually think they know what the budget is set at.


No one outside of a few ppl in the sens organization actually know the budget for next year....

How dare you bring rational thought into budget talks!

Eugene is broke, Karlsson and Ryan are on their way out and the sky is falling.

I can provide multiple quotes out of context which prove all of these as facts.

 

[blahblah3]

Do you really think that the Phillips deal was prudent given the financial situation of this team?

Murray has been throwing limited cash at the wrong people. I probably should have clarified that.

That is a good point. He has been doing that for a long time now. MF contract?

 

[great1]

The person that started the Tarasenko rumour last night now claims St. Louis got cold feed and pulled the deal.

 

[Icelevel]

The person that started the Tarasenko rumour last night now claims St. Louis got cold feed and pulled the deal.

son of a....!

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

The Ottawa GM is going to get what the market has to offer, it's a simple as that. The market dictates the value of a player and not the opposite.

...

This is hitting the nail on the head.

 

[Benjamin]

The person that started the Tarasenko rumour last night now claims St. Louis got cold feed and pulled the deal.

AKA he knows people know its pure fabrication.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

AKA he knows people know its pure fabrication.

The kicker is the implication that Murray had to sit down and consider that deal. He'd of accepted it on the same call he received it.

edit:spelling

 

[BankStreetParade]

The kicker is the implication that Murray had to sit down and consider that deal. He'd of accepted it on the same call her received it.

That's not great value when you consider what Rick Nash, an inferior player playing an inferior position, got in that trade: 2 top 6/9 forwards + prospect + picks.

Tarasenko is a great piece no doubt. But not worth a spezza on his own. The picks are very nearly inconsequential.

 

[Icelevel]

I don't remember an off season when so many high quality centers were potentially available at once. Am i wrong?

(spezza, thornton, marleau, kesler, stastny, richards, richards, kadri)

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I don't remember an off season when so many high quality centers were potentially available at once. Am i wrong?

(spezza, thornton, marleau, kesler, stastny, richards, richards, kadri)

Maybe because they aren't as high quality as their name recognition suggests? Brad Richards is nearly finished, Thornton & Marleau have choked in the playoffs with SJ for so long the bloom has definitely fallen off the rose (and that's without even considering their ages), the other Richards and Kesler have already had their best statistical seasons.....only ones that has a reasonable chance to still improve his numbers is Kadri, but he isn't the best character in the world.

Definitely need to look all these gift horses in the mouth before buying this summer.

 

[Icelevel]

That's true NMF. But big name players and for the most part still all top 6 centers

 

[Minister of Offence]

That's not great value when you consider what Rick Nash, an inferior player playing an inferior position, got in that trade: 2 top 6/9 forwards + prospect + picks.

Tarasenko is a great piece no doubt. But not worth a spezza on his own. The picks are very nearly inconsequential.

Considering you aren't getting an equal player back, you take a young scoring forward in a hurry. Maybe not a Russian , but the value is there for the top piece of the retun package

 

[Minister of Offence]

The person that started the Tarasenko rumour last night now claims St. Louis got cold feed and pulled the deal.

Just because senschirp pushed a rumour coming from a guy from ottawa with 25 followers doesn't make it worth listening to

 

[Minister of Offence]

Oshie for Spezza would be a reasonable move. If we can get Michalek re-signed at a decent value that would give us a fairly decent top 6. I know many of you feel Z-Bad isn't ready for top 6, but when will he be? If isn't going to be a 2C on this team he will somewhere else.

The blues like the idea of trying for a cup with oshie as their number 2 C. It's a borderline lateral move if they move oshie for spezza.

This is why trades are hard, two teams in different situations try and get a deal where they both win. That's why just because St. Louis is the favourite, meaning they want him the most and are calling sens the most doesn't mean they are in best position to give best deal.

I imagine we get stuck with a berglund deal or someone else with more to give wants spezza as much as St. Louis does.