OT: All Things Game of Thrones II (The thread is dark and full of spoilers)

[Psuhockey]

JFC, some of y’all remind of folks that win the powerball jackpot and then whine about paying the taxes.

Everyone has spend all year overanalyzing a crap show of a hockey team searching for answers in the mediocre mud. At least here everyone is over analyzing something good.

 

[deadhead]

Property is theft - Proudhon

Taxes are what we pay for civilized society - Oliver Wendell Holmes

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

If there was a backstory, maybe it explains why they were defeated so easily. The backstory would add to the character, potentially revealing a fatal flaw that explains the easy comeuppance. Instead, we have a brief 3 minute war-leader discussion where the living decide to use Bran as bait and bet everything on the killing the Night King asap. And from that 3 minute talk, there's a lot of unnecessary overly dark battle scenes to just exactly what was told to the audience a week before, kill the Night King, kill the whole army. While that's an admirable form of writing, being told what you're going to get, getting what you've been told, and a recap of how you got what you told you were going to get- that's a completely different structure than how GoT had previously been laid out, where you knew nothing of what was going to transpire. The surprises were that because you were not hinted at receiving something, and then getting that exact thing.

I am with you in that I think more twists and turns are better. Don't get me wrong on that, and I wish that there would have been more intrigue and suspense in some respect with the last episode (like for instance, maybe Jon Snow sacrifices himself to save Dany or something like that). But this statement you are making contradicts itself...you don't like this episode because it was not done like GoT (e.g., we were told something, we got it, and it was recapped) but you want a backstory where we are told about their flaw and it is later exploiterd or something like that? Isn't that what happened, but instead of doing it by way of a flashback it is just done in real time. Also, the fatal flaw was discerned early on when Sam kills a WW and the last couple episodes have been about exploiting that and making the weapons of dragonglass. You just want to know WHY that kills them? Like if they said, "The Night King is allergic to Dragonglass" you'd feel satisfied? I don't get the concern.

If the faceless men are so impressive, what stops them from being some death cult of unstoppable proportions? At this rate, the faceless men are the sole non-dragon greatest threat to human existence. They've jumped the shark and become the mcguffin of how to solve any problem, "get a faceless man to kill some folks." That's utterly lazy. They're as uninteresting as the WW at this point of fan ogling and explaining away.

I think that's kind of the idea, no? That the faceless men pretty much are unstoppable but they live by a certain code?

Arya's neck would snap because of the impact and sudden stop of her forward momentum, and the resulting non-transferance to the larger body of the NK (he didn't budge). Potentially his shoulder could have rippled all cool and slow-mo CGI under his garb and our eyes not seen it in the dark imagery captured by the television show. We'll never know. Otherwise, physics is a thing, even in Westeros, and that impact would be transferred to the point of contact if not absorbed by the larger NK body. Point of contact was Arya's neck, where the NK caught her.

I don't know about that but again, being upset because the show about dragons and magic isn't 100% kinesiologically accurate again seems like nitpicking. Are you mad that there is magic? HOW DID THE SWORDS LIGHT ON FIRE?!

Bran did not freeze previously because Bran's body was not in physical contact with the NK, but Bran using his greensee ability to project his consciousness onto the "astral plane"*. The result of his projection being touched was an actual scare on his physical body. Without further explanation (boo), and the brief glimpse we saw (boo), it could be a frost bite scar, which would be on brand (yay).


*Astral plane- a Marvel construct where power telepaths have out of body, free conscious experiences, unseen to the untelepathic.

So you are ok that a person can be frostbitten on the astral plain but you are mad because someone's neck didn't break and she didn't freeze. I agree with you that there are issues with the last episode (the last season and a half really), but you are mad at things that have nothing to do with the show. I saw someone the other day talking about how they are mad that the new season started and Jamie was in King's Landing because they want to know how long it took him to get there and what he did. Who cares??? If it took him a week or a month or a day and he talked to no one or stopped at a bunch of pubs...it has nothing to do with the story!

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Just remember that Argus Filch killed more main characters than the god damn Night King...

#TheHCRemembers.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I was clamoring for the Starks to come alive and protect the crypt only for Ned to not rise for some reason. That reason later unveiled that it wasn't his body and he's not really dead.

Team Skeleton Ned was started by Beef.

Skeleton Ned has a 90 inch vertical leap.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Skeleton Ned has a 90 inch vertical leap.

That's where Arya got it from...

 

[Beef Invictus]

I am with you in that I think more twists and turns are better. Don't get me wrong on that, and I wish that there would have been more intrigue and suspense in some respect with the last episode (like for instance, maybe Jon Snow sacrifices himself to save Dany or something like that). But this statement you are making contradicts itself...you don't like this episode because it was not done like GoT (e.g., we were told something, we got it, and it was recapped) but you want a backstory where we are told about their flaw and it is later exploiterd or something like that? Isn't that what happened, but instead of doing it by way of a flashback it is just done in real time. Also, the fatal flaw was discerned early on when Sam kills a WW and the last couple episodes have been about exploiting that and making the weapons of dragonglass. You just want to know WHY that kills them? Like if they said, "The Night King is allergic to Dragonglass" you'd feel satisfied? I don't get the concern.




I think that's kind of the idea, no? That the faceless men pretty much are unstoppable but they live by a certain code?



I don't know about that but again, being upset because the show about dragons and magic isn't 100% kinesiologically accurate again seems like nitpicking. Are you mad that there is magic? HOW DID THE SWORDS LIGHT ON FIRE?!



So you are ok that a person can be frostbitten on the astral plain but you are mad because someone's neck didn't break and she didn't freeze. I agree with you that there are issues with the last episode (the last season and a half really), but you are mad at things that have nothing to do with the show. I saw someone the other day talking about how they are mad that the new season started and Jamie was in King's Landing because they want to know how long it took him to get there and what he did. Who cares??? If it took him a week or a month or a day and he talked to no one or stopped at a bunch of pubs...it has nothing to do with the story!

This is how they're portrayed in the book too. Once the Faceless Men are given a name and accept payment, that person dies. That's that. But they only do it in service to the god of death, and the payment required is typically tremendous for the person hiring them. It's a purely religious ritual to them.

 

[Beef Invictus]

That's where Arya got it from...

It's a real shame Sansa and Tyrion were too f***ing stupid to flip open his crypt and assemble him. It would have solved every problem.

 

[Ruck Over]

This is a show about zombies, ice creatures, giants, flying fire-breathing dragons, vagina smoke assassins, skinned faces that just happen to fix perfectly regardless of different body types and shapes, and fire magic that resurrects the dead and what bothers you is that they don’t follow the laws of physics?

What bothers me is physics is real and all those things follow some set of rules. Everythong that is except Arya.

Even when it comes to dragons GRRM is very particular to make them as tealistic and plausible as possible. That's derived from his own mouth and the copious amounts of other works he's penned. Seldom does Martin just go herp derp- magic! The show is thriving off of herp derp lately.

 

[Ruck Over]

They were defeated "so easily" because killing the NK kills the army, and he was killed.

They weren't defeated "so easily" though. They lost a dragon, all of the Dothraki, most of the Unsullied, a couple northern houses were wiped out as well as the garrison at Winterfell being absolutely wrecked. The far North was depopulated, as well as the stretch between the Wall and Winterfell, the Wall brought down, the Night's Watch all but destroyed. Jorah is dead which is a major blow to Dany. Not gonna list Theon as a loss because his legacy was done a favor .

Arya got caught, changed hands with the weapon she was holding, then stabbed a dude, war over. That's an EZ button of epic proportions. A backstory would've filled in the hubris of the NK, why he wanted Bran so bad and exposed himself.

Because based off what you've detailed, the combined Dany/North army was not going to recover anytine soon.

A lot of people are conflicting wrights and WWs, two different things. Wrights have been killed by regular fire.

 

[Starat327]

Arya got caught, changed hands with the weapon she was holding, then stabbed a dude, war over. That's an EZ button of epic proportions. A backstory would've filled in the hubris of the NK, why he wanted Bran so bad and exposed himself.

Because based off what you've detailed, the combined Dany/North army was not going to recover anytine soon.

A lot of people are conflicting wrights and WWs, two different things. Wrights have been killed by regular fire.

It was documented why he wanted Bran. Bran, as the 3 eyed Raven, holds the memories of men. The night king was born to kill men, so killing Bran erases the memories of mortal men.

I do agree however, that the show shorted out a rather big storyline there.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Arya got caught, changed hands with the weapon she was holding, then stabbed a dude, war over. That's an EZ button of epic proportions. A backstory would've filled in the hubris of the NK, why he wanted Bran so bad and exposed himself.

They provided that. He despises the living and warmth. He wants to wipe out the world of men, and Bran is the living codex of human memory so he's priority 1.

You don't need backstory to understand hubris. The dude was confident because he has extraordinary capabilities and was on the verge of victory.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Her jump isn't even that impressive.

If you or I did that we are in the hospital with something critical broken

 

[Lindberg]

They provided that. He despises the living and warmth. He wants to wipe out the world of men, and Bran is the living codex of human memory so he's priority 1.

You don't need backstory to understand hubris. The dude was confident because he has extraordinary capabilities and was on the verge of victory.

Yeah I don't get what people are not understanding about the NK and the white walkers anymore. It is well understood that the NK just wants to wipe away all past and present existence of man out.

I guess a better story is that Bran slept with the Night King's sister and that's why he's target 1.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If you or I did that we are in the hospital with something critical broken

Speak for yourself bud



I'd be in the morgue

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'm sitting here bored wondering who will be the first to start shit up now that the unifying threat is gone, and I'm realizing it already happened. Dave was on his way to hack Mel to death when she took care of it on her own. Dude waited all of half a second before getting his grudge on.

 

[Ruck Over]

They provided that. He despises the living and warmth. He wants to wipe out the world of men, and Bran is the living codex of human memory so he's priority 1.

You don't need backstory to understand hubris. The dude was confident because he has extraordinary capabilities and was on the verge of victory.

And yet with those extraordinary capabilities he allowed a petite human to leap over his minions and stab him in the gut. That's a bridge too far.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Speak for yourself bud



I'd be in the morgue

 

[Jack Straw]

Bran literally says the Night King wants "an endless night. He wants to erase this world, and I am its memory." Whether or not that's the whole story is up for debate, but Bran hasn't really minced words since he's been in this emotionless state.

What does that even mean though? The Citadel is filled with books of the history of Westeros. If Bran dies do all the pages in the books turn blank? Like Tom Riddle’s diary? Does every person still alive forget everything they know? If the NK kills every single person except Bran, does Bran the Three-Eyed Raven have the power re-create humanity from memory?

I don’t need to know much about why the NK wants to wipe out the living. Various villains have been trying to do that for one reason or another in movies, books, and TV shows forever. The problem I have is with Bran. He appears to be nothing more than a huge plot device. And whatever actual, possible, meaningful significance he could have to the NK is completely beyond me.

 

[deadhead]

A faceless human being.
Maybe it wasn't even Arya.

 

[Beef Invictus]

And yet with those extraordinary capabilities he allowed a petite human to leap over his minions and stab him in the gut. That's a bridge too far.

No, it isn't. He's been defeated before, so he isn't unstoppable. He isn't omnipotent or omniscient. Everything that occurred to end him has been firmly established over the course of 8 seasons. She also didn't "leap over his minions."

This is some next-level nitpicking.

 

[Beef Invictus]

A faceless human being.
Maybe it wasn't even Arya.

My tinfoil hat theory is that the Waif was the backup plan for Arya. If Arya failed, she takes Arya's face and infiltrates Winterfell to try and take the shot instead. Hence why she spent so much time grilling her about Winterfell and her family.

 

[Ruck Over]

I am with you in that I think more twists and turns are better. Don't get me wrong on that, and I wish that there would have been more intrigue and suspense in some respect with the last episode (like for instance, maybe Jon Snow sacrifices himself to save Dany or something like that). But this statement you are making contradicts itself...you don't like this episode because it was not done like GoT (e.g., we were told something, we got it, and it was recapped) but you want a backstory where we are told about their flaw and it is later exploiterd or something like that? Isn't that what happened, but instead of doing it by way of a flashback it is just done in real time. Also, the fatal flaw was discerned early on when Sam kills a WW and the last couple episodes have been about exploiting that and making the weapons of dragonglass. You just want to know WHY that kills them? Like if they said, "The Night King is allergic to Dragonglass" you'd feel satisfied? I don't get the concern.




I think that's kind of the idea, no? That the faceless men pretty much are unstoppable but they live by a certain code?



I don't know about that but again, being upset because the show about dragons and magic isn't 100% kinesiologically accurate again seems like nitpicking. Are you mad that there is magic? HOW DID THE SWORDS LIGHT ON FIRE?!



So you are ok that a person can be frostbitten on the astral plain but you are mad because someone's neck didn't break and she didn't freeze. I agree with you that there are issues with the last episode (the last season and a half really), but you are mad at things that have nothing to do with the show. I saw someone the other day talking about how they are mad that the new season started and Jamie was in King's Landing because they want to know how long it took him to get there and what he did. Who cares??? If it took him a week or a month or a day and he talked to no one or stopped at a bunch of pubs...it has nothing to do with the story!

The problem with the three repetitive steps, and my desire for a layered back story are not contradictory. The three-layer parfait is a sugar rush that took no time or effort to tell. They literally recapped the NK in a simple two person dialogue with a bunch of passive witnesses none the wiser. What I'm talking about is why House Bolton is the flayed man and they've been at odds with the Starks (oh, that's right, only book people know...) or the Iron Bank being another unstoppable force that was mentioned in season 4'ish, and never heard from again. GRRM gave plenty of clues as to why something may or may not happen to allow guessing or informed retcons later. But he didn't spell it out with an etch-a-sketch prompted by pre-school flashcards. Red wedding, even in the book, didn't see that coming. But after Rob's war ventures past the Frey's towers he got married, his mom went ape-shit because of the slight and potential ramifications. There was a lot more time spent with the Freys to know they were miserable petty f***s, and with Rob and both his new bride and mother, than there was with Bran, Sam, and the NK.

In basic response to your "LOL WUT?" retort, this is the simple thing that could've quelled any dissatisfaction. Give the faceless men flying powers early on in the show, season 3, or 4, I think it was. Since there is so much other splendor and fantastic feats unreplicable in our modern society, make Arya fly and so much of what she has done becomes a lot more plausible.

As far as the astral projection thing, it actually works opposite of how I think you intended to mock me. Normal person, effect touched by a WW= frozen. Bran in mind-spirit/no-body form touched by a WW = scarred on actual body. Arya touched by a WW = nothing. So yeah, Arya getting touched and nothing happening is a serious plot hole, whereas Bran being scarred by a touch completely makes sense given the rules the show established.

 

[BiggE]

And yet with those extraordinary capabilities he allowed a petite human to leap over his minions and stab him in the gut. That's a bridge too far.

Well, if the 1980 US olympic hockey team can beat the Soviets and Buster Douglas can beat Mike Tyson, anything is possible.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The problem with the three repetitive steps, and my desire for a layered back story are not contradictory. The three-layer parfait is a sugar rush that took no time or effort to tell. They literally recapped the NK in a simple two person dialogue with a bunch of passive witnesses none the wiser. What I'm talking about is why House Bolton is the flayed man and they've been at odds with the Starks (oh, that's right, only book people know...) or the Iron Bank being another unstoppable force that was mentioned in season 4'ish, and never heard from again. GRRM gave plenty of clues as to why something may or may not happen to allow guessing or informed retcons later. But he didn't spell it out with an etch-a-sketch prompted by pre-school flashcards. Red wedding, even in the book, didn't see that coming. But after Rob's war ventures past the Frey's towers he got married, his mom went ape-**** because of the slight and potential ramifications. There was a lot more time spent with the Freys to know they were miserable petty ****s, and with Rob and both his new bride and mother, than there was with Bran, Sam, and the NK.

In basic response to your "LOL WUT?" retort, this is the simple thing that could've quelled any dissatisfaction. Give the faceless men flying powers early on in the show, season 3, or 4, I think it was. Since there is so much other splendor and fantastic feats unreplicable in our modern society, make Arya fly and so much of what she has done becomes a lot more plausible.

As far as the astral projection thing, it actually works opposite of how I think you intended to mock me. Normal person, effect touched by a WW= frozen. Bran in mind-spirit/no-body form touched by a WW = scarred on actual body. Arya touched by a WW = nothing. So yeah, Arya getting touched and nothing happening is a serious plot hole, whereas Bran being scarred by a touch completely makes sense given the rules the show established.

Season 1 actually, and they were last discussed in Season 7 as the money meant for their repayment was melted by dragons. In fact, further loans were predicated on Cersei using that money to pay their debt which makes her bankrolling of the GC quite questionable.