OT: All Things Game of Thrones II (The thread is dark and full of spoilers)

[Psuhockey]

I don't think he's waiting to see what the show does, I think he's just lazy.

That’s probably true too but why not just wait at this point?

 

[Juicy Pop]

Think of the NK as a sentient virus, that is, with no human attributes, and its only motive was to replicate by killing its host.
So there was never any "depth" to be found.

Yep. He's just a construct by the showrunners to try to put a face to some spooky entities that are probably still largely undefined even in GRRM's mind.

The issue is that it necessarily put them front and center as the defacto big-evil instead of something that would probably have been better suited as some unresolvable, fundamental threat that had to be contained rather than engaged.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Of all the things to complain about, the NK's lack of back story seems like the least of it (that or people mad that Arya was too sneaky). Why do you need a back story more than what is there? Honest question. I don't get this complaint. They really don't factor into the show more than the threat that is coming. You barely see them except sporadically throughout the show. They are talked about like the impending doom that they are.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The NK's backstory is over 8000 years long and consists of waiting until the time is right to move South. Like DFF said, what do you want out of that?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

The NK's backstory is over 8000 years long and consists of waiting until the time is right to move South. Like DFF said, what do you want out of that?

I want him and Skelton Ned on the throne, is that too much to ask?

 

[Beef Invictus]

That’s probably true too but why not just wait at this point?

Well he will be doing that, but as a result of the laziness lol.


I've been meaning to see if he knows the ending the show has in mind. It would be funny to me if he's decided to let them do whatever so he can have some surprised from his own work.

 

[Psuhockey]

Well he will be doing that, but as a result of the laziness lol.


I've been meaning to see if he knows the ending the show has in mind. It would be funny to me if he's decided to let them do whatever so he can have some surprised from his own work.

That would be smart on his part but since he will never finish, it doesn’t matter. If he actually hustled and had the 6th book out already, he could of raked in a ton on the last one after the series had ended. My guess is he thinks the popularity will just continue indefinitely.

 

[Juicy Pop]

Well he will be doing that, but as a result of the laziness lol.


I've been meaning to see if he knows the ending the show has in mind. It would be funny to me if he's decided to let them do whatever so he can have some surprised from his own work.

It'd be a trip to see him throw shade by having some random bard vaguely singing about the events of the show.

That would be smart on his part but since he will never finish, it doesn’t matter. If he actually hustled and had the 6th book out already, he could of raked in a ton on the last one after the series had ended. My guess is he thinks the popularity will just continue indefinitely.

I'm suddenly reminded of David Gerrold and the Chtorr series. The dude has been actively profiting from stringing readers along for 25 years now with promises of a fifth book.

 

[Ruck Over]

The NK's backstory is over 8000 years long and consists of waiting until the time is right to move South. Like DFF said, what do you want out of that?

Of all the things to complain about, the NK's lack of back story seems like the least of it (that or people mad that Arya was too sneaky). Why do you need a back story more than what is there? Honest question. I don't get this complaint. They really don't factor into the show more than the threat that is coming. You barely see them except sporadically throughout the show. They are talked about like the impending doom that they are.

If some force is labeled impending doom, it should probably take more than 1 battle scene to resolve all the ills. The magnitude of those perceived terminators is also awkward because it doesn't affect anyone on Essos, and not even the totality of Westeros buys in. Hard to be so frightening if not everyone is frightened. Some say the WW are a stand in for climate change. I'm more inclined to think they represent nuclear warfare. Regardless, neither nuclear warefare, nor climate change, are so easily conquered a threat as the WW were in GoT, and thus the narrative for those characters seems utterly lacking, breaking the suspicion of disbelief. Ice zombies - cool. Punk ice zombies - pass.

My problem with Arya killing the NK was her either not having her neck snapped when he caught her, or her neck not being turned to solid ice upon her being touched. The leap was ridiculous, but not the most offensive wrong.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

If some force is labeled impending doom, it should probably take more than 1 battle scene to resolve all the ills. The magnitude of those perceived terminators is also awkward because it doesn't affect anyone on Essos, and not even the totality of Westeros buys in. Hard to be so frightening if not everyone is frightened. Some say the WW are a stand in for climate change. I'm more inclined to think they represent nuclear warfare. Regardless, neither nuclear warefare, nor climate change, are so easily conquered a threat as the WW were in GoT, and thus the narrative for those characters seems utterly lacking, breaking the suspicion of disbelief. Ice zombies - cool. Punk ice zombies - pass.

My problem with Arya killing the NK was her either not having her neck snapped when he caught her, or her neck not being turned to solid ice upon her being touched. The leap was ridiculous, but not the most offensive wrong.

"Oh, let's just forget that the show has established the White Walkers as freezing the ground as they walk and freezing things that they touch. No one will notice, it's for the WOW factor, baby!"

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

If some force is labeled impending doom, it should probably take more than 1 battle scene to resolve all the ills. The magnitude of those perceived terminators is also awkward because it doesn't affect anyone on Essos, and not even the totality of Westeros buys in. Hard to be so frightening if not everyone is frightened. Some say the WW are a stand in for climate change. I'm more inclined to think they represent nuclear warfare. Regardless, neither nuclear warefare, nor climate change, are so easily conquered a threat as the WW were in GoT, and thus the narrative for those characters seems utterly lacking, breaking the suspicion of disbelief. Ice zombies - cool. Punk ice zombies - pass.

Being defeated too easily is different than wanting a backstory. I think to begin, they weren't defeated too easily. It was one battle that nearly wiped out essentially the entire North after doing so beyond the wall and breaking through the wall with a goddamned ice dragon. Not everyone is buying in because if you are alive in the Stupid Ages and live a million miles away from the Wall you aren't going to care about it or think you really have anything to worry (shit, if you are in Dorne you may have absolutely no idea that any of this is even going on...there aren't TVs or internet etc. to tell you, same as everyone in Essos).

My problem with Arya killing the NK was her either not having her neck snapped when he caught her, or her neck not being turned to solid ice upon her being touched. The leap was ridiculous, but not the most offensive wrong.

Yeah that doesn't bother me either. She was trained as an assassin by the faceless men. Crazier shit has happened on this show (and I am not sure why her neck would be snapped when he caught her). Bran didn't turn into ice when he was grabbed so why would Arya? I think there are definitely complaints to be made here, but this just sounds like nitpicking.

 

[Juicy Pop]

Now that I think of it, it is rather strange that the NK could just tank dragonfire straight up but is still weak dragonglass given its association to fire.

 

[Ruck Over]

Being defeated too easily is different than wanting a backstory. I think to begin, they weren't defeated too easily. It was one battle that nearly wiped out essentially the entire North after doing so beyond the wall and breaking through the wall with a goddamned ice dragon. Not everyone is buying in because if you are alive in the Stupid Ages and live a million miles away from the Wall you aren't going to care about it or think you really have anything to worry (****, if you are in Dorne you may have absolutely no idea that any of this is even going on...there aren't TVs or internet etc. to tell you, same as everyone in Essos).


Yeah that doesn't bother me either. She was trained as an assassin by the faceless men. Crazier **** has happened on this show (and I am not sure why her neck would be snapped when he caught her). Bran didn't turn into ice when he was grabbed so why would Arya? I think there are definitely complaints to be made here, but this just sounds like nitpicking.

If there was a backstory, maybe it explains why they were defeated so easily. The backstory would add to the character, potentially revealing a fatal flaw that explains the easy comeuppance. Instead, we have a brief 3 minute war-leader discussion where the living decide to use Bran as bait and bet everything on the killing the Night King asap. And from that 3 minute talk, there's a lot of unnecessary overly dark battle scenes to just exactly what was told to the audience a week before, kill the Night King, kill the whole army. While that's an admirable form of writing, being told what you're going to get, getting what you've been told, and a recap of how you got what you told you were going to get- that's a completely different structure than how GoT had previously been laid out, where you knew nothing of what was going to transpire. The surprises were that because you were not hinted at receiving something, and then getting that exact thing.


If the faceless men are so impressive, what stops them from being some death cult of unstoppable proportions? At this rate, the faceless men are the sole non-dragon greatest threat to human existence. They've jumped the shark and become the mcguffin of how to solve any problem, "get a faceless man to kill some folks." That's utterly lazy. They're as uninteresting as the WW at this point of fan ogling and explaining away.


Arya's neck would snap because of the impact and sudden stop of her forward momentum, and the resulting non-transferance to the larger body of the NK (he didn't budge). Potentially his shoulder could have rippled all cool and slow-mo CGI under his garb and our eyes not seen it in the dark imagery captured by the television show. We'll never know. Otherwise, physics is a thing, even in Westeros, and that impact would be transferred to the point of contact if not absorbed by the larger NK body. Point of contact was Arya's neck, where the NK caught her.


Bran did not freeze previously because Bran's body was not in physical contact with the NK, but Bran using his greensee ability to project his consciousness onto the "astral plane"*. The result of his projection being touched was an actual scare on his physical body. Without further explanation (boo), and the brief glimpse we saw (boo), it could be a frost bite scar, which would be on brand (yay).


*Astral plane- a Marvel construct where power telepaths have out of body, free conscious experiences, unseen to the untelepathic.

 

[Ruck Over]

Now that I think of it, it is rather strange that the NK could just tank dragonfire straight up but is still weak dragonglass given its association to fire.

Eh, fire is still a plasma, or some physical effect. Like Iceman, from X-Men, the NK can probably protect himself with a layer of ice cold air around his body that's acting like a buffer, a steam pocket of safety.

The obsidian being shoved into a WW's person is way more different. Actual contact, as opposed to supposed contact.

 

[Amorgus]

I thought that dagger that killed the NK was Valerian Steel, not Dragonglass. Her double edged DG polearm was lost in the fight earlier

Also for everyobe clamoring for Skeleton Ned, wasn't he beheaded? You kinda still need your head attached to your spine to use your body. I don't think they've shown any WW's reassembling themselves.

 

[Juicy Pop]

I thought that dagger that killed the NK was Valerian Steel, not Dragonglass. Her double edged DG polearm was lost in the fight earlier

Also for everyobe clamoring for Skeleton Ned, wasn't he beheaded? You kinda still need your head attached to your spine to use your body. I don't think they've shown any WW's reassembling themselves.

It was definitely the dagger that Bran gave to her, but I'm just making the assumption that Valyrian steel is equivalent to dragonglass or is actually just an alloy composed of steel and dragonglass within the context of the show.

In the books, it's the magic associated with dragonfire that's significant and there is a link between the techniques used to forge Valyrian steel and the magic that is apparently inherent within dragonglass.

 

[Psuhockey]

Otherwise, physics is a thing, even in Westeros.

This is a show about zombies, ice creatures, giants, flying fire-breathing dragons, vagina smoke assassins, skinned faces that just happen to fix perfectly regardless of different body types and shapes, and fire magic that resurrects the dead and what bothers you is that they don’t follow the laws of physics?

 

[Beef Invictus]

If there was a backstory, maybe it explains why they were defeated so easily. The backstory would add to the character, potentially revealing a fatal flaw that explains the easy comeuppance. Instead, we have a brief 3 minute war-leader discussion where the living decide to use Bran as bait and bet everything on the killing the Night King asap. And from that 3 minute talk, there's a lot of unnecessary overly dark battle scenes to just exactly what was told to the audience a week before, kill the Night King, kill the whole army. While that's an admirable form of writing, being told what you're going to get, getting what you've been told, and a recap of how you got what you told you were going to get- that's a completely different structure than how GoT had previously been laid out, where you knew nothing of what was going to transpire. The surprises were that because you were not hinted at receiving something, and then getting that exact thing.


If the faceless men are so impressive, what stops them from being some death cult of unstoppable proportions? At this rate, the faceless men are the sole non-dragon greatest threat to human existence. They've jumped the shark and become the mcguffin of how to solve any problem, "get a faceless man to kill some folks." That's utterly lazy. They're as uninteresting as the WW at this point of fan ogling and explaining away.


Arya's neck would snap because of the impact and sudden stop of her forward momentum, and the resulting non-transferance to the larger body of the NK (he didn't budge). Potentially his shoulder could have rippled all cool and slow-mo CGI under his garb and our eyes not seen it in the dark imagery captured by the television show. We'll never know. Otherwise, physics is a thing, even in Westeros, and that impact would be transferred to the point of contact if not absorbed by the larger NK body. Point of contact was Arya's neck, where the NK caught her.


Bran did not freeze previously because Bran's body was not in physical contact with the NK, but Bran using his greensee ability to project his consciousness onto the "astral plane"*. The result of his projection being touched was an actual scare on his physical body. Without further explanation (boo), and the brief glimpse we saw (boo), it could be a frost bite scar, which would be on brand (yay).


*Astral plane- a Marvel construct where power telepaths have out of body, free conscious experiences, unseen to the untelepathic.

They were defeated "so easily" because killing the NK kills the army, and he was killed.

They weren't defeated "so easily" though. They lost a dragon, all of the Dothraki, most of the Unsullied, a couple northern houses were wiped out as well as the garrison at Winterfell being absolutely wrecked. The far North was depopulated, as well as the stretch between the Wall and Winterfell, the Wall brought down, the Night's Watch all but destroyed. Jorah is dead which is a major blow to Dany. Not gonna list Theon as a loss because his legacy was done a favor .

 

[Beef Invictus]

This is a show about zombies, ice creatures, giants, flying fire-breathing dragons, vagina smoke assassins, skinned faces that just happen to fix perfectly regardless of different body types and shapes, and fire magic that resurrects the dead and what bothers you is that they don’t follow the laws of physics?

Her jump isn't even that impressive.

 

[RebusFlyer]

I have a hard time applying the descriptor "lazy" to a 71-year old guy who has written 18 published novels/novellas, written 21 TV series episodes, and written many published short stories (while also being involved in the competitive chess world). Perhaps he has lost the "fire" for Westeros. I suppose that is a relative of "lazy," but it's a distant one, imho.

 

[Young Sandwich]

Her jump isn't even that impressive.

Seriously though, say the NK is 6ft tall and Arya is 5ft tall. She would have to jump 2ft off the ground to be 1ft above him when he catches her. Seems like child's play for a trained assassin.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I have a hard time applying the descriptor "lazy" to a 71-year old guy who has written 18 published novels/novellas, written 21 TV series episodes, and written many published short stories (while also being involved in the competitive chess world). Perhaps he has lost the "fire" for Westeros. I suppose that is a relative of "lazy," but it's a distant one, imho.

I don't have a hard time. I mean, he's no Brayden Schenn, but he's at minimum Zherdev.

 

[BiggE]

JFC, some of y’all remind of folks that win the powerball jackpot and then whine about paying the taxes.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

JFC, some of y’all remind of folks that win the powerball jackpot and then whine about paying the taxes.

That's because Taxation is theft.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I thought that dagger that killed the NK was Valerian Steel, not Dragonglass. Her double edged DG polearm was lost in the fight earlier

Also for everyobe clamoring for Skeleton Ned, wasn't he beheaded? You kinda still need your head attached to your spine to use your body. I don't think they've shown any WW's reassembling themselves.

I was clamoring for the Starks to come alive and protect the crypt only for Ned to not rise for some reason. That reason later unveiled that it wasn't his body and he's not really dead.

Team Skeleton Ned was started by Beef.