All purpose trade/roster building thread the 13th

[GoldiFox]

Yeah, it sounds from the video, they’d just be interested in retaining, but that really makes no sense.

It does however, at least to me, to acquire the picks and player, but then I have no idea how the retention would work, with Vegas retaining or with another team doing it(but also wanting some compensation)? The Canes surely can’t be looking at taking on the full cap hit...

It makes sense if the Canes want to buy another 1st + 2nd round pick.

Vegas trades MAF to the Canes with a 1st + 2nd attached
Canes retain 50% and trade Fleury to PIT for a 5th round pick

Canes add a $3.5 million retention for 2 years at the cost of buying another 1st+.

Might even be possible that the Canes could swap MAF for another goalie like Murray or Kuemper (with assets added).

 

[spockBokk]

It makes sense if the Canes want to buy another 1st + 2nd round pick.

Vegas trades MAF to the Canes for 1st + 2nd
Canes retain 50% and trade Fleury to PIT for a 5th round pick

Canes add a $3.5 million retention for 2 years at the cost of buying another 1st+.

Well yeah, but they still are stuck with Reimer/Mrazek. I get it with them acquiring Fleury and the picks. I struggle to see the logic of them retaining again just for a pick or picks with their own cap issues coming up next season.

 

[A Star is Burns]

It makes sense if the Canes want to buy another 1st + 2nd round pick.

Vegas trades MAF to the Canes for 1st + 2nd
Canes retain 50% and trade Fleury to PIT for a 5th round pick

Canes add a $3.5 million retention for 2 years at the cost of buying another 1st+.

Yes, this seems like the scenario I've been seeing though I think you meant with a 1st + 2nd (one assumes we give up throwaway prospect or pick in return). Not sure where the other stuff is coming from.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Well yeah, but they still are stuck with Reimer/Mrazek. I get it with them acquiring Fleury and the picks. I struggle to see the logic of them retaining again just for a pick or picks with their own cap issues coming up next season.

I suppose the logic is high end talent on cheap deals as we enter the period where we have to pay all our guys. Makes sense enough to me. One assumes they have plenty of other irons in the fire with this as well.

 

[GoldiFox]

Well yeah, but they still are stuck with Reimer/Mrazek. I get it with them acquiring Fleury and the picks. I struggle to see the logic of them retaining again just for a pick or picks with their own cap issues coming up next season.

Yeah that depends more on whether or not the Canes see MAF as an upgrade at 1A. Reports have teams interested in both Reimer and Mrazek. I think they could be moved if an actual upgrade in net came. This would be all about buying more assets.

The Canes have some flexibility. Next year is a bit tight if they want to add a significant piece or two but the year after they have $32 million in space to work with.

 

[DaveG]

It makes sense if the Canes want to buy another 1st + 2nd round pick.

Vegas trades MAF to the Canes for 1st + 2nd
Canes retain 50% and trade Fleury to PIT for a 5th round pick

Canes add a $3.5 million retention for 2 years at the cost of buying another 1st+.

Might even be possible that the Canes could swap MAF for another goalie like Murray or Kuemper (with assets added).

Still not seeing it. Makes sense to Vegas sure but then we'd be down to a bit over 5m to re sign our Fleury, Foegele, and add a 3rd liner. Fleury and Foegs could take up most of that between the two

I think the implication is that Vegas ends up paying us to take him outright with full retention by them, and then we move a low salary Reimer for a pick to a team trying to reach the floor (Ottawa, Detroit) or cut actual salary (Arizona ... Pittsburgh?).

 

[GoldiFox]

Still not seeing it. Makes sense to Vegas sure but then we'd be down to a bit over 5m to re sign our Fleury, Foegele, and add a 3rd liner. Fleury and Foegs could take up most of that between the two

Would definitely necessitate other moves. They could fit Fleury + Foegele + bottom-6 winger in under $5 million but that is tight. I think we will see at least one of Reimer/Mrazek moved and two of Gardiner/Niederreiter/Dzingle moved. With Skjei also being available if the return is right.

I just don't see why Servalli would point to the Canes as an example of the price to dump MAF being a 1st + 2nd if the Canes were the end buyers. I'm not sure they would be in that discussion between the middleman and Vegas.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Getting out of Niederreiter or Gardiner clean at a reasonable price in this environment is dubious. If they could do that, wouldn't it make more sense to use the free cap to improve the current roster instead?

Is @TheRillestPaulFenton Don Waddell's HF account?

No, but I have loads of sense that goes into my opinion LMAO! I may get ratioed from time to time, but I also have my opinions, run with them, and do it with a sense of self-awareness and humor at my own incompetence. IMO the smart play in a flat cap from an asset management perspective is to zag instead of zig and acquire cap, not dump it.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I've been trying to process this idea in the context of the cap situation over the next 2 years for 45 minutes and still don't get it.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I've been trying to process this idea in the context of the cap situation over the next 2 years for 45 minutes and still don't get it.

I processed the whole thought before it was cool to LMAO! What I think is that Svech's extension talks are near done and they know how much he'll cost. That's why they're comfortable with yet another cap dump.

 

[DaveG]

I've been trying to process this idea in the context of the cap situation over the next 2 years for 45 minutes and still don't get it.

Basically nothing really changes for us if it is indeed Vegas eating half and paying us to take him. It basically becomes "thanks, suckers". Still in good shape with Zinger, Brock, and Marty coming off the books the same off-season we need to re-sign Svech and Dougie, even if Marty is almost certain to come back we're still good. Just no room for a big add with the flat cap situation (ie: Laine). Especially if we pay Seattle to take Gardner we're fine.

If the implication was as someone else said us eating half of Fleury to flip him elsewhere that really f***s things up. But I don't think this would be the case, I'm thinking it's us getting free assets to bail out Vegas, us moving Reimer elsewhere for an asset, and rolling Mrazek/Fleury for a year or two until MAF becomes a UFA.

 

[spockBokk]

 

[Chrispy]

So the third party is getting paid to pay for half of Fleury.
And Vegas is getting paid a 2nd to trade Fleury.

And the third team pays both Vegas and the middleman for 2 years of 36 (when the season starts) year old MAF at a $3.5M cap hit?

Who are the ad wizards that came up with this one?

 

[DaveG]

So the third party is getting paid to pay for half of Fleury.
And Vegas is getting paid a 2nd to trade Fleury.

And the third team pays both Vegas and the middleman for 2 years of 36 (when the season starts) year old MAF at a $3.5M cap hit?

Who are the ad wizards that came up with this one?

So basically if it's us it would be

To Vegas: #53
To whoever: Fleury @50%
To Carolina: #29 or 2021 first (not sure which), 3.5 dead cap the next 2 years, whatever from the other team

Yeah I don't like it much at all

 

[Chrispy]

So basically if it's us it would be

To Vegas: #53
To whoever: Fleury @50%
To Carolina: #29 or 2021 first (not sure which), 3.5 dead cap the next 2 years, whatever from the other team

Yeah I don't like it much at all

With a 2nd round pick or so from the 3rd team, it could make sense for Carolina. Move within the 2nd round and gain a 1st. But it's still $3.5M over 2 years for that pick. Not quite as onerous as the Marleau cap hit, but it also comes at a worse time for the franchise.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

So basically if it's us it would be

To Vegas: #53
To whoever: Fleury @50%
To Carolina: #29 or 2021 first (not sure which), 3.5 dead cap the next 2 years, whatever from the other team

Yeah I don't like it much at all

We don't know what all the pieces are though.

What if it's:

To VGN: Canes 2nd round pick (#53)
To Carolina: MAF and VGN 1st round pick

To team (x): MAF at 50%
To Carolina: Some asset (2nd round pick for instance).

VGN's get full cap relief and trade a late 1st for a late 2nd
Canes eat 50% of MAF for basically a 1st round pick (net after the 2nd trade)
Team X gets MAF at 50% for a 2nd round pick.

EDIT: @Chrispy beat me to it.

 

[spockBokk]

IF, they end up with a 1st and 2nd AND they have a Reimer trade in their back pocket, it kinda makes sense as they’d basically break even cap wise. There’s still be the issue of $3.5M against the cap next year...

They’d still need a backup/partner for Mrazek though, so unless they really have faith in Nedeljkovic, they’d have to sign another goalie.

 

[DaveG]

We don't know what all the pieces are though.

What if it's:

To VGN: Canes 2nd round pick (#53)
To Carolina: MAF and VGN 1st round pick

To team (x): MAF at 50%
To Carolina: Some asset (2nd round pick for instance).

VGN's get full cap relief and trade a late 1st for a late 2nd
Canes eat 50% of MAF for basically a 1st round pick (net after the 2nd trade)
Team X gets MAF at 50% for a 2nd round pick.

Still not that great for us unless there is someone that's going to take Dzingle or Gardner for nothing

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Still not that great for us unless there is someone that's going to take Dzingle or Gardner for nothing

I get what you are saying, but it's hard to say how great or not great it is without knowing more of what moves are done. Like you said, if we clear cap space elsewhere, it's fine. If we package that 1st for something else then it could be fine. I would think if Carolina does this, they have something in mind in terms of cap management over the next two yers.

 

[GoldiFox]

I get what you are saying, but it's hard to say how great or not great it is without knowing more of what moves are done. Like you said, if we clear cap space elsewhere, it's fine. If we package that 1st for something else then it could be fine. I would think if Carolina does this, they have something in mind in terms of cap management over the next two yers.

It will all become clear once the Hamilton trade hits

 

[DaveG]

I get what you are saying, but it's hard to say how great or not great it is without knowing more of what moves are done. Like you said, if we clear cap space elsewhere, it's fine. If we package that 1st for something else then it could be fine. I would think if Carolina does this, they have something in mind in terms of cap management over the next two yers.

This might sound dumb but if we are the middle man, I want next year's pick, not this year's. That becomes the chip to get Ronnie to fix our salary situation in the ED without having to give up Bean in the process

 

[raynman]

It will all become clear once the Hamilton trade hits

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

This might sound dumb but if we are the middle man, I want next year's pick, not this year's. That becomes the chip to get Ronnie to fix our salary situation in the ED without having to give up Bean in the process

nah. Take this years. The draft is deeper. Also, we dont need a chip for Francis. Just let him pick whoever he wants from Skjei, Gardiner, and Bean and we still have a great top 6.

 

[GoldiFox]

This might sound dumb but if we are the middle man, I want next year's pick, not this year's. That becomes the chip to get Ronnie to fix our salary situation in the ED without having to give up Bean in the process

Khusnutdinov or Wallinder for this guy, please and thank you.

But I don't think taking on $3.5 million in dead cap for 2 years is worth upgrading from pick #53 to #29. By most accounts there is a solid tier in this draft ~25-50.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Khusnutdinov or Wallinder for this guy, please and thank you.

But I don't think taking on $3.5 million in dead cap for 2 years is worth upgrading from pick #53 to #29. By most accounts there is a solid tier in this draft ~25-50.

Depends on who drops to the late 20s range. There's always a dropper out there. And I always want first pickings from the 21-29 range, if I can. If the guy you want didn't drop, maybe you can even parlay said #29 pick into multiple picks via trade-down. There's a hell of a lot that you can do with #29 that you can't do with a #53rd.