All purpose trade / roster building thread part 4: We like our Jerks

[spockBokk]

Package Fox and the first for Kreider.

Not enough term to give up the 1st.

I’d be thinking someone like Zucker, if we’re talking 20-ish OA, maybe even someone like Kapanen or Kadri, with adds within reason as needed, if TOR’s impending cap doom hits critical mass. Toffoli too, could be an option, but like Krieder, not for the 1st. I’d hope that would only be on the table for a guy with term or RFA years left.

 

[MinJaBen]

Pens fan suggested Faulk + Bean for Kessel. Faulk actually makes more than Kessel next year factoring in Toronto's retention.

In my dream world both Pittsburgh and Tampa are willing to take on Faulk after their sweeps.

Keep Bean. If Faulk plus something else, I’d be somewhat interested, but Bean stays.

 

[spockBokk]

Keep Bean. If Faulk plus something else, I’d be somewhat interested, but Bean stays.

Yep, Bean looks great as a 1st year pro and offers skills no one else in the system does. I think at least 1 if not both of Fleury/Mckeown would be gone long, long before Bean.

 

[cptjeff]

The reason Francis wasn’t making moves was because the price wasn’t worth it, at least in the back half. He wanted to make moves his last two off seasons rather desperately but the prices were too high to do more than he did. It didn’t make sense to trade the youth yet. He was right.

Bull. Shit.

The price is never right if you don't want to make a move. You make the price work by dealing strength for weakness if you actually want to make a move. Francis had options, the league did not stand still, and plenty of reasonable moves that would have helped the Canes were made. Remember when our current star goalie went for a low pick during a season when we had the most embarrassing dumpster fire in net in the entire NHL?

You can always find a way to talk yourself out of a deal, but if you don't actually move, you die. Doing nothing with a bad team does not magically make a better team.

Also, for all the people mentioning Slavin and Pesce- they were not drafted under Francis. They're a product of the absolutely abysmal pool of prospects that we had because JR neglected the draft. JR was never anywhere close to as bad for our prospect pool as people here have claimed and the quality of Francis's prospects were always massively overhyped to try and fit the narrative.

 

[Unsustainable]

Fleury and Faulk for Kessel, not Bean

 

[SaskCanesFan]

Bull. ****.

The price is never right if you don't want to make a move. You make the price work by dealing strength for weakness if you actually want to make a move. Francis had options, the league did not stand still, and plenty of reasonable moves that would have helped the Canes were made. Remember when our current star goalie went for a low pick during a season when we had the most embarrassing dumpster fire in net in the entire NHL?

You can always find a way to talk yourself out of a deal, but if you don't actually move, you die. Doing nothing with a bad team does not magically make a better team.

Also, for all the people mentioning Slavin and Pesce- they were not drafted under Francis. They're a product of the absolutely abysmal pool of prospects that we had because JR neglected the draft. JR was never anywhere close to as bad for our prospect pool as people here have claimed and the quality of Francis's prospects were always massively overhyped to try and fit the narrative.

Oh hi Mr Chiarelli. You want to trade Hall for Larsson again?

If you force a strength for weakness move, that's what happens. And making a bad move is infinitely worse than making no move at all. It's just easier for people to rationalize for some reason.

Francis said it was a 5 year plan when he was hired. Guess what, this is year 5. Saying he didn't have what it takes to make a big move, just because he didn't force one prematurely, is a massive assumption.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Oh hi Mr Chiarelli. You want to trade Hall for Larsson again?

If you force a strength for weakness move, that's what happens. And making a bad move is infinitely worse than making no move at all. It's just easier for people to rationalize for some reason.

Francis said it was a 5 year plan when he was hired. Guess what, this is year 5. Saying he didn't have what it takes to make a big move, just because he didn't force one prematurely, is a massive assumption.

I mean, using the extreme of the guy that's made most of the worst trades of the last 10 years isn't the best argument. Most people thought/think Waddell is a ****ing moron and he pulled off two bold hockey trades with Minny and Calgary with pretty good results. We had plenty of assets to work with, and he didn't seem willing to pull the trigger. He's not the only one. Most GMs these days are terrified to end up on the bad side of a trade, so why even bother? I find it impossible to believe that there was nothing out there short of getting fleeced like Chiarelli. We'll never know for certain, but at the end of the day results matter, and the owner he ended up with didn't sign up for his 5 year plan or management style.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Waddell completely changed the culture of the team. Francis stood pat. The results speak for themselves.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Waddell completely changed the culture of the team. Francis stood pat. The results speak for themselves.

That's much better way of saying what I said.

 

[Wolfpuck]

Re-sign Mrazzle Dazzle. He's a f***ing gamer. Period.

 

[A Star is Burns]

You pretty much have to find a way to make it work. I was pretty dead set against a Koskinen type deal, but he could be moving into that territory.

 

[cptjeff]

Oh hi Mr Chiarelli. You want to trade Hall for Larsson again?

If you force a strength for weakness move, that's what happens. And making a bad move is infinitely worse than making no move at all. It's just easier for people to rationalize for some reason.

Francis said it was a 5 year plan when he was hired. Guess what, this is year 5. Saying he didn't have what it takes to make a big move, just because he didn't force one prematurely, is a massive assumption.

It wasn't a 5 year plan to maybe scrape into the playoffs. It was a 5 year plan to become a contender for the Stanley Cup.

And yes, this is year 5- except for the fact that Waddell took Francis's plan, ran it through the shredder twice, crapped on it, set it on fire, and dumped the ashes into a sewer. This is year one of the Dundon/Waddell/Brind'Amour/Tulsky Hydra-Headed GM plan, not year 5 of the Francis plan.

Francis failed, and failed miserably.

 

[SlavinAway]

It wasn't a 5 year plan to maybe scrape into the playoffs. It was a 5 year plan to become a contender for the Stanley Cup.

And yes, this is year 5- except for the fact that Waddell took Francis's plan, ran it through the shredder twice, crapped on it, set it on fire, and dumped the ashes into a sewer. This is year one of the Dundon/Waddell/Brind'Amour/Tulsky Hydra-Headed GM plan, not year 5 of the Francis plan.

Francis failed, and failed miserably.

You can't be stupid but you have to be willing to take chances; Francis wasn't and Dundell have. As much as it pains me to say it I hope that Columbus has some more success this year; might be a catalyst to see more GMs willing to take some risks. Makes hockey much more entertaining.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

They will, but if you think they're going to spend near the cap you're likely kidding yourself. My guess is that we're a $72 million to $74 million payroll team next season.

I don’t think my statement was strong enough to suggest we are a cap ceiling team.

I say no to Kessel.

I target a post July 1st deal with Toronto for Nylander or Kapanen. Allows Toronto to re-sign Faulk to make the deal worth it.

Target the same time frame deal with LV for Karlsson or TB for Miller.

 

[Drivebytrucker]

You pretty much have to find a way to make it work. I was pretty dead set against a Koskinen type deal, but he could be moving into that territory.

I think this was a bad play by Waddell. It was clear months and months ago that Mrazek had done enough to deserve a contract extension.

by pushing it off, you're costing the team money or increasing the chances he tests Free Agency.

 

[Drivebytrucker]

Kessel is never ever coming to Carolina.

If Skinner isn't a Coach Rod type player, then Kessel definitely isn't.

We're not that type of club....

 

[WreckingCrew]

Pass on Kessel, the guy always strikes me as semi-psychotic (which actually applies to a lot of Pens players it seems)

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think this was a bad play by Waddell. It was clear months and months ago that Mrazek had done enough to deserve a contract extension.

by pushing it off, you're costing the team money or increasing the chances he tests Free Agency.

It takes two to tango. Maybe Mrazek didn't want to sign an extension months ago.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Given how hard the guys were battling, I’m not upset that they weren’t going through contract negotiations. No need for any distractions. I also don’t think Mrazek would want to leave as long as we make him a fair offer.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I think this was a bad play by Waddell. It was clear months and months ago that Mrazek had done enough to deserve a contract extension.

by pushing it off, you're costing the team money or increasing the chances he tests Free Agency.

That is a hot take. Petr has done well this season. I want him to stay but he still carries a lot of risk in re-signing. He doesn’t have a consistent history of good performances needless to say what we have seen over the last 2-ish months.

Petr will probably get a Darling type contract. Petr has a chance of returning to early season form as his latter end of the season performance. For a while, McE was the more consistent and confidence inspiring goalie of the pair.

In the end Petr will have to decide if he wants more money by taking a one year contract risk to show he can perform this way for an entire season or does he want the stability of a 4 year deal.

 

[MinJaBen]

It takes two to tango. Maybe Mrazek didn't want to sign an extension months ago.

Yeah, I have to think that if he took just a single year "prove it" contract that he offered up himself, he is going to see the season through and prove what he thinks he's worth. Only way I'd see a guy in a situation like that shelving such a plan would be a crazy generous offer.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I think this was a bad play by Waddell. It was clear months and months ago that Mrazek had done enough to deserve a contract extension.

by pushing it off, you're costing the team money or increasing the chances he tests Free Agency.

I’m not sure what you mean by “months and months ago”. I assume you mean at least 3 months ago when Mrazek was 6-8-2 with a .901 save % while getting outplayed by a 35 year old backup.

At which time, yes it would’ve been advantageous to sign him because he wouldn’t have any negotiating power. The flip side of that is, why the tits would they re-sign him when they are getting better goaltending out of a 35 year old backup?

 

[Unsustainable]

Teuvo Teravainen and Nino Niederreiter cost a 2nd, a 3rd, and Victor Rask.

Can we make more of these trades?

 

[A Star is Burns]

Yeah, that's a pretty bad take on not signing Mrazek sooner. I mean, even when we've brought it up in the last few months, we were hoping to get a pretty fair deal of like 3x3 for a guy that was competent, but not a world beater.

In January and February, when the run was in full tilt and we had a baby butt soft schedule, he was 9-4-1 but only with a 2.59 and .906. Solid, but nothing that screams we have to sign him, especially given that he had the first 3 just okay, but not even that good months. I guess if they knew he would go God mode (they didn't, nobody did) against a crazy tough schedule down the stretch, sure, they should have signed him to the best sweetheart deal ever. Even those two months, and these 4 games mean nothing for a guy who has battled with consistency his entire career. Still, we likely have to bite the bullet on this and hope we get a Koskinen type deal like I mentioned.

 

[bleedgreen]

Bull. ****.

The price is never right if you don't want to make a move. You make the price work by dealing strength for weakness if you actually want to make a move. Francis had options, the league did not stand still, and plenty of reasonable moves that would have helped the Canes were made. Remember when our current star goalie went for a low pick during a season when we had the most embarrassing dumpster fire in net in the entire NHL?

You can always find a way to talk yourself out of a deal, but if you don't actually move, you die. Doing nothing with a bad team does not magically make a better team.

Also, for all the people mentioning Slavin and Pesce- they were not drafted under Francis. They're a product of the absolutely abysmal pool of prospects that we had because JR neglected the draft. JR was never anywhere close to as bad for our prospect pool as people here have claimed and the quality of Francis's prospects were always massively overhyped to try and fit the narrative.

Bullshit right back. You have no idea what Francis had on the table. You’re just assuming. The first couple of years the team wasn’t good enough to be making any moves at all and were rebuilding. The back half the team wasn’t remotely good enough to add at the deadline. Picks for Mrazek? He was awful. How did he end up playing for us for so cheap? He’s trying to save his career. That move made no sense for us.

Also, one year he did make moves! Some of them are questioned now, which somehow turns into a “narrative” of “he stood pat”.

Darling, Kruger, Tvr, Jooris and Williams. How is that inactivity or standing pat?!? In a couple of weeks.

There wasn’t a single move for a better player that made any sense for us or a free agent that would’ve come here. So fair to say the concept of Francis not doing anything is bs. Dundell himself said he agreed with the team not adding at the deadline which was the obvious right choice. We weren’t going to make it.