All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread - off-season chaos edition

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spockBokk

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I wouldn’t be too gutted if they deal any of Dzingel/Gardiner/Niederreiter. I’d personally think Gardiner is the most likely to stay or maybe more succinctly, the hardest to move so they’re stuck with him. If they do somehow find a way to move Gardiner, I think Vatanen is signed 5 minutes later. I won’t be holding my breath for that though. I’m expecting a rebound season from Gardiner. When he was paired with Fleury during the playoffs, he looked really good, at least to my eyes. If he can get back to 30pts+ and play to the level he was playing right before the Covid break, I don’t really have an issue with him or his salary.

Dzingel is an interesting case, and I think the most likely Cane to rebound if given a chance. I also think he’s the most movable given his impending ufa status and his style of play not really fitting in. I don’t see him being moved prior to the season starting, whenever that ends up being, but I don’t see him finishing the season in a Canes sweater.

18-19 Niederreiter is exactly the type of player the Canes need, but I doubt he ever gets back to that level. I’d love to eat crow here.
 

bleedgreen

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If the only problem Jake had was long term recovery from his back issues he’s had the very best thing that can happen to his career. If he doesn’t have his mobility back to where it needs to be for him to be close to the guy he was in TO it isn’t coming back and this will be a long term issue for us.

You could say the same for Trocheck aside from the long term issue part.
 

OakCityWildcat

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I wouldn’t be too gutted if they deal any of Dzingel/Gardiner/Niederreiter. I’d personally think Gardiner is the most likely to stay or maybe more succinctly, the hardest to move so they’re stuck with him. If they do somehow find a way to move Gardiner, I think Vatanen is signed 5 minutes later. I won’t be holding my breath for that though. I’m expecting a rebound season from Gardiner. When he was paired with Fleury during the playoffs, he looked really good, at least to my eyes. If he can get back to 30pts+ and play to the level he was playing right before the Covid break, I don’t really have an issue with him or his salary.

Dzingel is an interesting case, and I think the most likely Cane to rebound if given a chance. I also think he’s the most movable given his impending ufa status and his style of play not really fitting in. I don’t see him being moved prior to the season starting, whenever that ends up being, but I don’t see him finishing the season in a Canes sweater.

18-19 Niederreiter is exactly the type of player the Canes need, but I doubt he ever gets back to that level. I’d love to eat crow here.

Agreed. If the front office can find a deal for Gardiner that doesn't cost the team a prospect or draft pick, I think they take it and immediately sign Vatanen to a short-term deal. If I recall correctly, it's been said that Brind'Amour doesn't care too much about the handedness of his defenders; however, I believe there is merit in having your defensive pairings matched up with one left handed and one right handed defender. Even ignoring that, I much prefer the way Vatanen plays with the puck compared to Gardiner. As much as I'd like us to have a defender or two similar to Tim Gleason, Josh Manson, or Scott Mayfield (serviceable player with a mean streak that isn't afraid to stand up for a teammate), it would be difficult to argue this isn't a well balanced, top tier defensive corps:

Slavin // Hamilton
Skjei // Pesce
Fleury // Vatanen

With the first call ups being Bean, McKeown (assuming he's re-signed), and Ryan.

As for Dzingel and Niederreiter, I agree once again with your assessment. Dzingel has a lot more to give, but it simply hasn't worked out thus far. He deserves some credit though -- when the going got tough for Haula, we all heard how he responded; however, we haven't heard anything similar with Dzingel. It appears to me, from my outsiders view, that Dzingel wants to make it work or, at the very least, will try to make it work. Niederreiter, I haven't a clue what's up with him. This, clearly, isn't the first time he started off hot with a team and then flamed out. If he can find his physical game and a hard-nose for the front of the net, he'd be an incredible power forward, a la Erik Cole and Tuomo Ruutu.

Now, in my opinion, which I have already alluded to, the biggest issue with the current roster is the lack of a player with a legitimate mean streak. We desperately need a Ferland-, Scott Walker-, Tim Gleason-esque player on the team. Not a fake, concocted up mean streak (like I'd argue Edmundson has) but a guy who will hit and drop the gloves without any hesitation. Give me someone like Nicolas Deslauriers, Kyle Clifford, or Brenden Lemieux. I'm not advocating for a pure enforcer (Langdon, Boulerice, Brookbank, or Westgarth when he wanted to be), because I realize that ship has sailed in the NHL. Just someone that isn't afraid to mix it up on his behalf or the team's, but also isn't a total liability on the ice.
 

Surrounded By Ahos

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Now, in my opinion, which I have already alluded to, the biggest issue with the current roster is the lack of a player with a legitimate mean streak. We desperately need a Ferland-, Scott Walker-, Tim Gleason-esque player on the team. Not a fake, concocted up mean streak (like I'd argue Edmundson has) but a guy who will hit and drop the gloves without any hesitation. Give me someone like Nicolas Deslauriers, Kyle Clifford, or Brenden Lemieux. I'm not advocating for a pure enforcer (Langdon, Boulerice, Brookbank, or Westgarth when he wanted to be), because I realize that ship has sailed in the NHL. Just someone that isn't afraid to mix it up on his behalf or the team's, but also isn't a total liability on the ice.
First off, welcome!

Secondly, I couldn't agree more. We need a guy who can play, but isn't afraid to throw his weight around, and make other guys afraid.
 

TheReelChuckFletcher

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First off, welcome!

Secondly, I couldn't agree more. We need a guy who can play, but isn't afraid to throw his weight around, and make other guys afraid.

Barclay Goodrow would be my target next year once Svech and Dougie are locked into their contracts. He's the perfect combination of a nasty player that is also good at hockey.
 

spockBokk

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I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Fast gets the “1st line McGinn” treatment to give the top 6 a dose of a guy who’s willing to do the dirty work for the skilled guys. By no means is Fast a Ferland-type, but I think he’d bring more grit than most other options on the team.

If they’re willing to break up TT and Aho I wonder If the below lineup might spark a bit more scoring balance:

Svechnikov-Aho-Fast
TT-Trocheck-Necas
Martinook/McGinn-Staal-Foegele
Dzingel-Geekie-Niederreiter

With that “4th” line getting as many offensive starts as possible to shelter them defensively.

All this assumes they don’t make any changes up front between now and whenever training camp starts. I’d also be surprised if they don’t either sign one of the UFA forwards outs left out there for cheap (Hoffman/Granlund, etc.) or make a trade for a top 9 scorer.
 
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tarheelhockey

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To me it isn’t a one guy issue. It’s a team thing. One guy can inspire and lead the way a bit but we got away from the first seasons grit oriented lineup and so now we’re back pre Rod in terms of innate grit.

Yep. Guys like Williams and Svech are fully capable of bringing an edge. It’s a matter of being willing to do that as a group, as opposed to just folding under because nobody’s willing to be the first guy into the breach.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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I think we romanticize individual tough guys too much. Ferland couldn’t stay healthy in Carolina and his career is in jeopardy. Gleason wasn’t an average defenseman. Scott Walker played 81,58, 41, and 33 games and scored 51,32, 15, and 5 points in his 4 Hurricanes seasons. We remember the few good moments and forget the full body of work,

I agree with Bleed (I know, I know) that it’s more of a team thing, but most of the guys we fawn over either weren’t that good or didn’t contribute much.
 

bleedgreen

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I think we romanticize individual tough guys too much. Ferland couldn’t stay healthy in Carolina and his career is in jeopardy. Gleason wasn’t an average defenseman. Scott Walker played 81,58, 41, and 33 games and scored 51,32, 15, and 5 points in his 4 Hurricanes seasons. We remember the few good moments and forget the full body of work,

I agree with Bleed (I know, I know) that it’s more of a team thing, but most of the guys we fawn over either weren’t that good or didn’t contribute much.
I think if Rod had his way he’d have a bottom six of Goodrow/Coleman/Miles Wood types. Or Foegele with more consistent play. It’s not goony, it’s grit and not backing down from anything on top of smart defensively and wearing the other team down on the forecheck.

Occasional scraps wouldnt be the worse thing, especially if they come from passionate play vs intentional fights.
 

Canes

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Sign me up for a Monahan for a Trocheck, Bean+ trade. Bean has no path forward here as long as mediocre and/or overpaid players are signed above him, and Trocheck has steadily trended downwards for multiple years, I can't imagine anyone turning down such a trade, just like I can't imagine one being offered (by Calgary that is).
 
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Joe McGrath

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I think we romanticize individual tough guys too much. Ferland couldn’t stay healthy in Carolina and his career is in jeopardy. Gleason wasn’t an average defenseman. Scott Walker played 81,58, 41, and 33 games and scored 51,32, 15, and 5 points in his 4 Hurricanes seasons. We remember the few good moments and forget the full body of work,

I agree with Bleed (I know, I know) that it’s more of a team thing, but most of the guys we fawn over either weren’t that good or didn’t contribute much.

Gleason was at least an average defenseman for quite a while.
 

Anton Dubinchuk

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I think we romanticize individual tough guys too much. Ferland couldn’t stay healthy in Carolina and his career is in jeopardy. Gleason wasn’t an average defenseman. Scott Walker played 81,58, 41, and 33 games and scored 51,32, 15, and 5 points in his 4 Hurricanes seasons. We remember the few good moments and forget the full body of work,

I agree with Bleed (I know, I know) that it’s more of a team thing, but most of the guys we fawn over either weren’t that good or didn’t contribute much.

We have never fully replaced what Troy Bodie brought to this team
 

Anton Dubinchuk

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Ultimately, this team's nastiest guy is gonna be Svech. Give him a couple more years to fill out, and he's Ovie 2.0. He likes the physical part of the game and he's just gonna get better at it.

Yep, “nasty” in the modern sense. Don’t mind if he never drops the gloves again, but he loves just being in the middle of things.
 

Navin R Slavin

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Yep, “nasty” in the modern sense. Don’t mind if he never drops the gloves again, but he loves just being in the middle of things.
Yep. If the whole team is engaged, I think we've got guys up and down the lineup who can drop the gloves if that's what's absolutely needed -- but mostly, if we hit hard and skate hard and stay out of the box, we win more than we lose.
 

Joe McGrath

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Yes. I mistyped that. I meant to say he WAS an average defenseman.

I originally wrote “Gleason wasn’t that good” and rethought that and tried to write “was an average defenseman” but accidentally left the “ wasn’t”

That makes more sense. It’s fair to say for at least 2 years he was an above average defenseman. People (like me) forget that he was on the US Olympic team that got silver in Vancouver. Sure, so was Ryan Whitney, but let’s not focus on the details.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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That makes more sense. It’s fair to say for at least 2 years he was an above average defenseman. People (like me) forget that he was on the US Olympic team that got silver in Vancouver. Sure, so was Ryan Whitney, but let’s not focus on the details.

Probably true. It's also fair to say he was below average for a few seasons as well, notably in the stretch from 2012 or 13 through the end of his career.
 

Lempo

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That makes more sense. It’s fair to say for at least 2 years he was an above average defenseman. People (like me) forget that he was on the US Olympic team that got silver in Vancouver. Sure, so was Ryan Whitney, but let’s not focus on the details.
942211614.gif
 

Sens1Canes2

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Ultimately, this team's nastiest guy is gonna be Svech. Give him a couple more years to fill out, and he's Ovie 2.0. He likes the physical part of the game and he's just gonna get better at it.
It’s completely fine if he’s Ovie 2.0, but he cannot be a much-more-skilled Tom Wilson. Similar to how Brady Tkachuk can’t be the guy to be sticking up for guys in Ottawa - he’s too valuable to get taken off the ice for appreciable amounts of time. I wish the brass surrounded Aho-TT-Svech with at least one or two guys who’ll do the same.
 
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