All Purpose PK Subban Discussion Thread Part 2

[Porter Stoutheart]

The Preds never tell us anything about anybody's injury. I think the first we heard any specifics about Turris' injury was from the broadcast of an opposing team.

Yep, I was watching that broadcast when it was said. The Preds never said a word.

But for all of PK's media megaphone and all the trade talk surrounding him, you'd think something would have come out likewise.

 

[predhead1]

Let's say we swing and miss on Duchene. What about making a play for Marcus Johansson? I watched him early in his Caps career and he's a talented guy that could slot in at 2C or on the wing if we need, and I think a second line of MoJo-Turris (assuming we don't move him)-Granlund would be a legit scoring line. I'd prefer Duchene, but I feel like MoJo is flying under the radar a bit and we could add him at a cheaper cap hit if everything else remains status quo.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Let's say we swing and miss on Duchene. What about making a play for Marcus Johansson? I watched him early in his Caps career and he's a talented guy that could slot in at 2C or on the wing if we need, and I think a second line of MoJo-Turris (assuming we don't move him)-Granlund would be a legit scoring line. I'd prefer Duchene, but I feel like MoJo is flying under the radar a bit and we could add him at a cheaper cap hit if everything else remains status quo.

I dunno, I think these are the kinds of players that are risky to chase as UFAs. You end up having to given them a salary and term that... well, I don't know how often it works out? It feels like a Frolik or Boedker type of situation where maybe in a good year they've looked good, but a lot of the time they're a lot less noticeable, so do you really want to pay him $5M or more for 5 years if he's just a 20/20 guy overall? I feel like he's a decent player, but I wouldn't want to lock him in long-term. Ditto Nyquist. But that's just me. I haven't watched him enough to come up with a sense of him "flying under the radar" maybe.

Or maybe I'm just too used to fantasizing about the really big name guys, but now that our payroll has reached a stage of maturity where we don't have the flexibility we used to, I don't like UFA time for chasing pieces unless they are a) big long-term main core players (like Duchene would be) or b) temporary stop-gaps on short term deals (like Hamhuis was).

It feels to me like we'd be fine with Smith in that spot for now and seeing how Tolvanen progresses for after Smith is gone, rather than locking ourselves into a pricey UFA like that? Or for that matter, just extending Smith and keeping him there?

 

[IceColdOx]

Anyone ever venture onto the Predators various Facebook groups? My goodness PK gets blamed for everything. I swear his fault the Titans struggled last season and he's why the Vols haven't gone to a major bowl in a while.

 

[Legionnaire11]

Anyone ever venture onto the Predators various Facebook groups? My goodness PK gets blamed for everything. I swear his fault the Titans struggled last season and he's why the Vols haven't gone to a major bowl in a while.

There's rarely anything worth looking at in those groups. It's crazy how that segment of the fanbase can have such a different view of reality. I responded (not even arguing, just providing info to a question) to a thread there once with actual statistics for a player, and was told that I was wrong lol

 

[IceColdOx]

There's rarely anything worth looking at in those groups. It's crazy how that segment of the fanbase can have such a different view of reality. I responded (not even arguing, just providing info to a question) to a thread there once with actual statistics for a player, and was told that I was wrong lol

Alternative facts. lol

 

[LCPreds]

PK was the unseen star of the Zapruder film.

 

[TitansVolsPreds615]

Anyone ever venture onto the Predators various Facebook groups? My goodness PK gets blamed for everything. I swear his fault the Titans struggled last season and he's why the Vols haven't gone to a major bowl in a while.

I had to unlike the Predators fan group. The dumbest people in the group are apparently the ones who post the most.

 

[FilthyScoresberg]

I had to unlike the Predators fan group. The dumbest people in the group are apparently the ones who post the most.

That’s how it always is in Facebook groups. Dumb people seeking attention.
We should start our own fan page.. for HF members only. I know I’d be on that more because I use Facebook often, plus I hate dealing with the cookies and crashing this site brings. We could set it to where it’s private and you have to be accepted by the mods.
Who would join?

 

[TitansVolsPreds615]

That’s how it always is in Facebook groups. Dumb people seeking attention.
We should start our own fan page.. for HF members only. I know I’d be on that more because I use Facebook often, plus I hate dealing with the cookies and crashing this site brings. We could set it to where it’s private and you have to be accepted by the mods.
Who would join?

I'd extend an olive branch to Preds reddit too. They have their share of trolls and such too but for the most part the regulars over there are really knowledgeable.

 

[FilthyScoresberg]

I'd extend an olive branch to Preds reddit too. They have their share of trolls and such too but for the most part the regulars over there are really knowledgeable.

I’ve tried Reddit before and it was just another app I had to check, ya know? I’m gonna try and create a group sometime and when I do, I’ll create a thread to let y’all know.

 

[Legionnaire11]

Reddit is a big step up from Facebook, but still a lot of filler. I just don't find that there's information I can get on a different platform that isn't available on HF just as fast or faster.

Dang, I really miss the first several versions of the Predators message board back before the NHL took over all of the teams websites.

And I heard there used to be a decent Preds board from ESPN, but it was dead before I ever ventured over to it.

 

[Armourboy]

I just like the message board format better than anything else tbh.

 

[FilthyScoresberg]

I get that but if there were an app for this site.. that would be stellar.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

top 20 players to be moved according to the athletic has subban at #2

2. P.K. Subban, Nashville Predators – Changes are expected in Nashville this summer following the disappointing playoff series loss to the Dallas Stars, and Subban’s name is at the center of speculation. There are a couple reasons. Don’t shoot the messenger here but the topics that often come up when talking about Subban have returned, like the impact his big personality has on the dressing room. “Too much P.K. It’s too much everything,” said one NHL source this week. But more important than that is he hasn’t performed at the same level as he has in the past. “I don’t have him as a top two defenseman,” said an NHL scout. “I have him as a second pairing. I think as the game continues to speed up, that’s given him some trouble. I’m not sure his legs are as fresh as they used to be.” If his game is declining as he hits his 30s, that $9 million per year price tag starts to look awfully rich.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

PK is basically a media darling. He's a goldmine. You can't go wrong putting him in a story. Good or bad, hero or villain. You will always get clicks. You will always get some "source" willing to say something bad about him. 90% of anything ever posted or said about Subban is just gossip page material that plays only on this magical ability that Subban has to generate opinion - whether it's informed or not makes absolutely no difference.

It's quite amazing how he was able to become this larger-than-life character. I think it would be an interesting thing to study and write a book about him and his life in hockey from an investigative journalist viewpoint. You couldn't let PK write it/ghost-write, you'd have to be able to dig deep and find out if there really is bad to go with good, and what people REALLY think and WHY they think it, not just parrot the old headlines and stories that are part of the urban legend.

The way he becomes such an easy magnet for controversy, the subject of such diametrically opposed viewpoints is fascinating. I've followed him as closely as any of us can via our perch in the fan zone these last 3 years, and I can't figure it out. There's definitely a temptation to jump to some seemingly obvious conclusions. But surely it can't be just that? If he had wanted to, I bet he could have become the biggest villain in the history of the sport. But the way he mixes in all his off-ice good deeds and seemingly genuine good-naturedness is almost like the perfect foil to his detractors, throwing them off kilter just enough to hate him even more.

I'll miss him if he gets traded. But maybe he can find an even bigger media spotlight somewhere else and grow the legend even more. That'd be fun to watch. The main key is he has to get back on track as a hockey player, though. It won't resonate the same if he really does just fall off permanently as a mediocre/overpaid declining has-been. He has to get himself back on top of his game to really maximize the dramatic impact. It would be a little too easy to just fade into oblivion and take on a color commentator job somewhere as the next JR or whoever.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

top 20 players to be moved according to the athletic has subban at #2

2. P.K. Subban, Nashville Predators – Changes are expected in Nashville this summer following the disappointing playoff series loss to the Dallas Stars, and Subban’s name is at the center of speculation. There are a couple reasons. Don’t shoot the messenger here but the topics that often come up when talking about Subban have returned, like the impact his big personality has on the dressing room. “Too much P.K. It’s too much everything,” said one NHL source this week. But more important than that is he hasn’t performed at the same level as he has in the past. “I don’t have him as a top two defenseman,” said an NHL scout. “I have him as a second pairing. I think as the game continues to speed up, that’s given him some trouble. I’m not sure his legs are as fresh as they used to be.” If his game is declining as he hits his 30s, that $9 million per year price tag starts to look awfully rich.

I'm curious since I don't read a lot of these articles, is there any hockey writer that is not a Canadian writing to predominantly Canadian readers that has talked about PK's supposed personality conflict issues? I guess what I'm saying is, does all this smoke emanate from the hockey traditionalists up north or are there local/regional writers that have commented on this as well? The constant belly-aching over a guy that is, honestly, small potatoes when compared to the everyday player news and personalities you see in the NBA, NFL, etc... is pretty astounding.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

Hear me out with this scenario...

Admittedly, for this hypothetical trade to go through, the stars will have to perfectly align. Poile will have to have a strong indication that Duchene will sign in Nashville, thereby invoking the need to immediately re-allocate Subban's $9M salary. Additionally, since the Preds would then be rolling with Duchene/Johansen/Turris at center, Bonino would become a trade candidate, presenting another opportunity for cap relief. (Personally, I think Ottawa makes the most sense for Bonino, since they need to reach the cap floor, and are short on both veterans and centers. Bonino checks a lot of boxes there.)

If all of the above comes to pass, would you guys be open to LW/RW Miles Wood + 2020 top-5 protected 1st + NSH 2019 2nd for Subban?

Wood is an incredibly versatile forward that would be a seamless fit in Nashville. He has speed to burn (I'd argue he has top-5 straight-line speed in the league), and plays a fearless "bull in a china shop" style that perfectly matches the "Smashville" mantra. He played almost exclusively LW last year, but is fully capable of playing RW (his hat trick in 17-18 actually came on the right side). Frankly, I think he's the player you thought you were acquiring (or wanted to acquire) when you traded for Wayne Simmonds at the deadline... except Wood is 23 and is signed for 3 more years at $2.75M AAV. He has sniffed 20 goals before (19G in 17-18, playing ~12 minutes a night); I could see him breaking out in Nashville, especially if he's given PP time at the front of the net.

The picks may be used to either draft to supplement your lineup with cheap ELCs, or used as trade currency at the deadline. If Poile goes into the 2020 deadline with two 1st's (very unlikely and unusual situation for a contender), Nashville is automatically a part of the conversation for the highest-profile rentals on the market. Even if no additions are made (highly unlikely), you're rolling with:

Forsberg - Duchene - Arvidsson
Tolvanen - Johansen - Granlund
Wood/Jarnkrok - Turris - Smith/Watson
Jarnkrok/Wood - Gaudreau - Watson/Smith

Josi - Ellis
Ekholm - Fabbro
Hamhuis - Weber/Irwin

Again, a lot has to go right for this trade to even be feasible. But, hypothetically, what say you?

 

[Legionnaire11]

I'm curious since I don't read a lot of these articles, is there any hockey writer that is not a Canadian writing to predominantly Canadian readers that has talked about PK's supposed personality conflict issues? I guess what I'm saying is, does all this smoke emanate from the hockey traditionalists up north or are there local/regional writers that have commented on this as well? The constant belly-aching over a guy that is, honestly, small potatoes when compared to the everyday player news and personalities you see in the NBA, NFL, etc... is pretty astounding.

I was coming to ask a similar question. I see on every main boards discussion about players who have said they didn't like PK in the locker room. We know this isn't the case on the Preds team, but has there ever actually been a player quotes on this? It would have to be from Montreal if it's the case, and maybe I just didn't follow PK or the Habs closely when it happened, but I don't recall this ever actually being the case.

If its just rumors and hearsay, I take that stuff with a grain of salt because the stuff that comes out of Canadian markets is always a bit sketchy, the fans and media have to generate a lot of content to satisfy their appetite for the local team, and most of it comes off as nonsense to me.

But again, maybe there's concrete proof and I just haven't seen it. Anyone got something?

 

[LCPreds]

“Too much P.K. It’s too much everything,” said one NHL source this week.
(aka Canadian insider who is likely Mike Milbury old)

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Hear me out with this scenario...

Admittedly, for this hypothetical trade to go through, the stars will have to perfectly align. Poile will have to have a strong indication that Duchene will sign in Nashville, thereby invoking the need to immediately re-allocate Subban's $9M salary. Additionally, since the Preds would then be rolling with Duchene/Johansen/Turris at center, Bonino would become a trade candidate, presenting another opportunity for cap relief. (Personally, I think Ottawa makes the most sense for Bonino, since they need to reach the cap floor, and are short on both veterans and centers. Bonino checks a lot of boxes there.)

If all of the above comes to pass, would you guys be open to LW/RW Miles Wood + 2020 top-5 protected 1st + NSH 2019 2nd for Subban?

Wood is an incredibly versatile forward that would be a seamless fit in Nashville. He has speed to burn (I'd argue he has top-5 straight-line speed in the league), and plays a fearless "bull in a china shop" style that perfectly matches the "Smashville" mantra. He played almost exclusively LW last year, but is fully capable of playing RW (his hat trick in 17-18 actually came on the right side). Frankly, I think he's the player you thought you were acquiring (or wanted to acquire) when you traded for Wayne Simmonds at the deadline... except Wood is 23 and is signed for 3 more years at $2.75M AAV. He has sniffed 20 goals before (19G in 17-18, playing ~12 minutes a night); I could see him breaking out in Nashville, especially if he's given PP time at the front of the net.

The picks may be used to either draft to supplement your lineup with cheap ELCs, or used as trade currency at the deadline. If Poile goes into the 2020 deadline with two 1st's (very unlikely and unusual situation for a contender), Nashville is automatically a part of the conversation for the highest-profile rentals on the market. Even if no additions are made (highly unlikely), you're rolling with:

Forsberg - Duchene - Arvidsson
Tolvanen - Johansen - Granlund
Wood/Jarnkrok - Turris - Smith/Watson
Jarnkrok/Wood - Gaudreau - Watson/Smith

Josi - Ellis
Ekholm - Fabbro
Hamhuis - Weber/Irwin

Again, a lot has to go right for this trade to even be feasible. But, hypothetically, what say you?

A 30-point winger and a mid-1st (which it's more likely to be adding Hughes, Subban, and a healthy Hall) isn't very enticing.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I was coming to ask a similar question. I see on every main boards discussion about players who have said they didn't like PK in the locker room. We know this isn't the case on the Preds team, but has there ever actually been a player quotes on this? It would have to be from Montreal if it's the case, and maybe I just didn't follow PK or the Habs closely when it happened, but I don't recall this ever actually being the case.

If its just rumors and hearsay, I take that stuff with a grain of salt because the stuff that comes out of Canadian markets is always a bit sketchy, the fans and media have to generate a lot of content to satisfy their appetite for the local team, and most of it comes off as nonsense to me.

But again, maybe there's concrete proof and I just haven't seen it. Anyone got something?

Gallagher doesn't seem to like him, though whether that is from when they played together or "in character" once they became opponents is hard to say. I think there have also been some inferences from comments made by Price, but I don't have anything concrete.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

I was coming to ask a similar question. I see on every main boards discussion about players who have said they didn't like PK in the locker room. We know this isn't the case on the Preds team, but has there ever actually been a player quotes on this? It would have to be from Montreal if it's the case, and maybe I just didn't follow PK or the Habs closely when it happened, but I don't recall this ever actually being the case.

If its just rumors and hearsay, I take that stuff with a grain of salt because the stuff that comes out of Canadian markets is always a bit sketchy, the fans and media have to generate a lot of content to satisfy their appetite for the local team, and most of it comes off as nonsense to me.

But again, maybe there's concrete proof and I just haven't seen it. Anyone got something?

I don't have a definitive answer for you, but I'd suspect it's a manufactured narrative to justify that horrendous trade. We Devils fans went through the same thing with Hall; Edmonton journalists bashed him for being "cliquey" and a "locker room cancer," when he has been the exact opposite for us in New Jersey.

It's just far too convenient that these slanderous narratives seem to surface after the Canadian organization gets absolutely humiliated in the trade. It's not a coincidence. Canadian hockey media is just toxic, and they'll do anything and everything to manufacture fake justification. It's really quite pathetic.

A 30-point winger and a mid-1st (which it's more likely to be adding Hughes, Subban, and a healthy Hall) isn't very enticing.

You'd be gambling on Wood's upside, while adding a draft pick which will be very valuable at the deadline.

I'm not going to pretend that Miles Wood is some irresistible asset, but he has one of the most unique skill sets in the league: big frame, blazing speed, tenacious in the corners/at the net-mouth, and extremely aggressive/chippy. He scored 19 goals playing 4th line minutes in 17-18, so I don't think it's unrealistic to expect 20+ with an expanded role in Nashville. Plus, Laviolette seems to get the most out of players like this, as he did in Philly with Hartnell and a prime Simmonds.

Reasonable minds can differ, but I'd think Wood plus whichever slam dunk rental you'd acquire at the deadline with our 1st (plus Duchene, whose signing is made possible by trading PK) would boost next year's playoff run much more than Subban, by himself, would.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

You'd be gambling on Wood's upside, while adding a draft pick which will be very valuable at the deadline.

I'm not going to pretend that Miles Wood is some irresistible asset, but he has one of the most unique skill sets in the league: big frame, blazing speed, tenacious in the corners/at the net-mouth, and extremely aggressive/chippy. He scored 19 goals playing 4th line minutes in 17-18, so I don't think it's unrealistic to expect 20+ with an expanded role in Nashville. Plus, Laviolette seems to get the most out of players like this, as he did in Philly with Hartnell and a prime Simmonds.

Reasonable minds can differ, but I'd think Wood plus whichever slam dunk rental you'd acquire at the deadline with our 1st (plus Duchene, whose signing is made possible by trading PK) would boost next year's playoff run much more than Subban, by himself, would.

We can sign Duchene without trading Subban.

Subban is one year removed from being a Norris finalist. I'm not giving 3 years of him up to "gamble" a player might have the ability to progress past a 30-point bottom-6 player and a draft pick whose primary purpose is to flip for a short-term rental at the deadline. You're proposing a trade deadline return for a player that still has 3 years left. Turn Wood into a surer (and better) young roster player or add another good prospect and it's something to start considering.

 

[Scoresberg]

My problem with trading Subban is that he's been a steady, physical force for us in the playoffs for the time he's been here. He's been able to get under the skin of the other teams' players, has been better defensively than in the regular season while producing offensively.

If we trade Subban and don't add a physical #4-5D to our defense it's gonna be pillow soft in the playoffs and that won't win any Cups. I'd much prefer to trade Ellis rather than Subban even if the return isn't that big.

That being said, if the return is great enough, I'd be willing to trade Subban, as long as we add a guy like Gudas, Bortuzzo etc. But we can't trade every tough, physical, grinder guy because that's what we've been missing the last two playoff runs. We were grittier in '17 and harder to play against.