Pre-Game Talk: All Purpose Off Day Thread

[vodeni]

I say it’s time to split the PP into 2 units. First unit has zero interest in back checking (unless it’s Hornqvist) so split it up and get 2 defensemen on each unit. (And get Rikola back in..). The carelessness and complete lack of effort or sense of urgency is embarrassing. The kopitar goal was a killer and NEVER should have happened.

On a positive note, Sid and Jake playing the PK makes me so happy. It’s too bad we waited this long to use Sid like this.

terrible idea, two defensman, it won't happen anyways...check Sully's presser from the last night, he (rightfully so) understands that he has trhe best PP in the league on his hands...he also understands that he has a job to do to ensure that they play the right way...he specifically pointed on tangers skate by last night instead of as he said stopping...these are things that can be corrected and brought back in...I have zero interest seein Maatta or Pettersson on first PP or JJ or any of these guys except 58 or 4...

 

[Tom Hanks]

Happy Birthday JMFJ

 

[Tom Hanks]

terrible idea, two defensman, it won't happen anyways...check Sully's presser from the last night, he (rightfully so) understands that he has trhe best PP in the league on his hands...he also understands that he has a job to do to ensure that they play the right way...he specifically pointed on tangers skate by last night instead of as he said stopping...these are things that can be corrected and brought back in...I have zero interest seein Maatta or Pettersson on first PP or JJ or any of these guys except 58 or 4...

I think our PP set up is basically Sully pointing out any egregious errors and try to keep them grounded but they kind of do their own thing.

The coaches can set things up but when you have Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Kessel on the ice they’d just play on instinct, I imagine any coaching goes out the window.

They push the play which is obviously what they need to do but sometimes it is too much threading in tight spaces. They basically play a poker style all in and it works way more often than not but sometimes there a smarter plays at more appropriate times.

Sully would have had words about last nights PP to them.

 

[wheelz87]

Yea I mean Sully can say whatever he wants.. the guys fail time and time again to give effort. I’m tired of it, it’s going to cost us when it really counts. Think Kessel or Malkin will start giving a damn NOW on back checking? No.

I have no interest seeing anyone other than 58 or 4 back there too. Actually Rikola is solid. But I really don’t feel like breaking a record for most shorties allowed. They’re backbreakers.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yea I mean Sully can say whatever he wants.. the guys fail time and time again to give effort. I’m tired of it, it’s going to cost us when it really counts. Think Kessel or Malkin will start giving a damn NOW on back checking? No.

I have no interest seeing anyone other than 58 or 4 back there too. Actually Rikola is solid. But I really don’t feel like breaking a record for most shorties allowed. They’re backbreakers.

that said, the same group only gave up 3 shorties last year while having the best PP% in the league. It was just all around the best powerplay in the league last year.

 

[wheelz87]

that said, the same group only gave up 3 shorties last year while having the best PP% in the league. It was just all around the best powerplay in the league last year.

Pretty amazing they only let up 3 last year. I wish there was a stat for 2 on 1s given up while on the PP. They have to be at the top. Anyways there’s no denying the individual talents. But what works one year doesn’t always the next. They absolutely should be near the top with what they have at their disposal. But when they continue to be lazy or refuse to get off the ice until they’re dragging, you change something. Not going to bench them obviously, so you give them a security blanket.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Pretty amazing they only let up 3 last year. I wish there was a stat for 2 on 1s given up while on the PP. They have to be at the top. Anyways there’s no denying the individual talents. But what works one year doesn’t always the next. They absolutely should be near the top with what they have at their disposal. But when they continue to be lazy or refuse to get off the ice until they’re dragging, you change something. Not going to bench them obviously, so you give them a security blanket.

The last 2 years our PP was 1st and 3rd. We’re 5th so far this season so we are always near the top. We are also only slightly behind last years 1st overall % too.

 

[WayneSid9987]

We just have some stars that tend to have pretty bad habits when they aren't going well. G, Phil, Letang.
The biggest thing is playing with pucks so much near the blue line. They're good enough to play with it down low but it seems they don't practice that alot and prefer the up high plays. You play with it up high and the opponents know it and know pressuring the likes of the 3 i mentioned means turned over pucks, it can equal great SH opportunities and goals.
PP1 is just playing a little too loose and need a)a touch more structure than just winging it and b)more down low plays that can be practiced so it becomes engrained.

 

[ncm7772]

I'm in agreement here. Something needs to change. To me, doesn't matter if you're PP is ranked 6th if you lead the league in SH goals. Would be pretty disheartening to lose a playoff spot over a game (or 2, or 3) that were lost because of SH goals.

Yes, that's hockey. But an incredibly frustrating way to lose.

 

[Gurglesons]

We just have some stars that tend to have pretty bad habits when they aren't going well. G, Phil, Letang.
The biggest thing is playing with pucks so much near the blue line. They're good enough to play with it down low but it seems they don't practice that alot and prefer the up high plays. You play with it up high and the opponents know it and know pressuring the likes of the 3 i mentioned means turned over pucks, it can equal great SH opportunities and goals.
PP1 is just playing a little too loose and need a)a touch more structure than just winging it and b)more down low plays that can be practiced so it becomes engrained.

Let’s be honest even Sid is a train wreck defensively on the PP.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm in agreement here. Something needs to change. To me, doesn't matter if you're PP is ranked 6th if you lead the league in SH goals. Would be pretty disheartening to lose a playoff spot over a game (or 2, or 3) that were lost because of SH goals.

Yes, that's hockey. But an incredibly frustrating way to lose.

The current group has to figure it out. That PP is a major weapon to win the Cup. Don't break it up to prevent SH goals. Safety is death for this team. They need to play smarter, but breaking up the unit to have 2 D is not the way to go IMO.

 

[Icarium]

Didn't Sully split the first unit for a game at some point this season? I remember being appalled that Maatta was playing with Geno (or was it with Sid). The makeshift unit scored somehow and then the usual PP1 returned, maybe this was a wakeup call for our stars and Sully needs to do it again. They can figure it out, I am sure, but a bit of accountability doesn't hurt. But in the long run, keep PP1 as it is.

 

[Pancakes]

It's a concern for sure. But a regular season one.

If we get to the playoffs, we won't be giving up shorties there. Because in the playoffs, guys give max effort all the time. I can't count the number of times in years past where we get mad on this board about poor puck retrieval or defensive effort on the PP and then the playoffs come and guys start selling out and suddenly the issues of SHGs and lack of corner battle effort on the PP magically disappear.

The trick for me is figuring out a way to get these guys to be less cavalier with the PP in the regular season because I'm 100% confident that they won't be that way in a playoff game. They rarely if ever did that in the past in the playoffs.

 

[Peat]

The current group has to figure it out. That PP is a major weapon to win the Cup. Don't break it up to prevent SH goals. Safety is death for this team. They need to play smarter, but breaking up the unit to have 2 D is not the way to go IMO.

Its not like 2D would actually make it any safer. It doesn't really matter who you have on ice if someone gives away a breakaway at the blue line.

Didn't Sully split the first unit for a game at some point this season? I remember being appalled that Maatta was playing with Geno (or was it with Sid). The makeshift unit scored somehow and then the usual PP1 returned, maybe this was a wakeup call for our stars and Sully needs to do it again. They can figure it out, I am sure, but a bit of accountability doesn't hurt. But in the long run, keep PP1 as it is.

Yes. Johnson was with Sid and it actually worked... so Sully switched it straight back and everyone started going "WTF!". A certain amount of switching it up as a short term wake up call is valid.

 

[Ogrezilla]

yeah changing the powerplay short term to make a point is reasonable, but the guys on the current unit are absolutely the best options long term. Schultz is the only real argument. Or keeping Jake in when healthy. But there's no way the rest of our D do a better job than Letang and Malkin on the points.

 

[Peat]

yeah changing the powerplay short term to make a point is reasonable, but the guys on the current unit are absolutely the best options long term. Schultz is the only real argument. Or keeping Jake in when healthy. But there's no way the rest of our D do a better job than Letang and Malkin on the points.

I don't want to dismiss that out of hand but...

Pens’ Power play with, without Hornqvist

Season	With Hornqvist	W/out Hornqvist
2016-17	23.9%	18.4%
2017-18	27.9%	12.9%
2018-19	28.3%	13.6%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Lets just say there's got to be a really strong counter argument.

 

[ColePens]

My Hornqvist. God bless him.

 

[Shady Machine]

I don't want to dismiss that out of hand but...

Pens’ Power play with, without Hornqvist

Season	With Hornqvist	W/out Hornqvist
2016-17	23.9%	18.4%
2017-18	27.9%	12.9%
2018-19	28.3%	13.6%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Lets just say there's got to be a really strong counter argument.

I certainly don't want to change it, but Jake is a lot better now so I'd suspect those %'s would change a bit with this Jake vs Horny.

 

[Turin]

I don't want to dismiss that out of hand but...

Pens’ Power play with, without Hornqvist

Season	With Hornqvist	W/out Hornqvist
2016-17	23.9%	18.4%
2017-18	27.9%	12.9%
2018-19	28.3%	13.6%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Lets just say there's got to be a really strong counter argument.

Huh. There’s something wrong with the set up if it’s that dependent on one guy, never mind a guy who isn’t exactly a star.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I don't want to dismiss that out of hand but...

Pens’ Power play with, without Hornqvist

Season	With Hornqvist	W/out Hornqvist
2016-17	23.9%	18.4%
2017-18	27.9%	12.9%
2018-19	28.3%	13.6%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Lets just say there's got to be a really strong counter argument.

oh for sure. It wouldn't be Horny I'd sit, which pretty much means Jake isn't getting in.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Huh. There’s something wrong with the set up if it’s that dependent on one guy, never mind a guy who isn’t exactly a star.

nah, we don't have another right shot or another net front guy to take his place. He's a huge deal for us. He bounces between pure netfront and being a threat in the same spot Oshie sits for the Caps.

Though I guess you mean there's an issue with the setup without him, which is true. We need to work from the other side of the ice more without him because we replace him with a left shot.

 

[Bingo71]

It's a concern for sure. But a regular season one.

If we get to the playoffs, we won't be giving up shorties there. Because in the playoffs, guys give max effort all the time. I can't count the number of times in years past where we get mad on this board about poor puck retrieval or defensive effort on the PP and then the playoffs come and guys start selling out and suddenly the issues of SHGs and lack of corner battle effort on the PP magically disappear.

The trick for me is figuring out a way to get these guys to be less cavalier with the PP in the regular season because I'm 100% confident that they won't be that way in a playoff game. They rarely if ever did that in the past in the playoffs.

If they don’t fix this problem there might not be any postseason.

That’s the point. There is still a lot of season left but they can’t be dropping winable games right now when the playoff race is so tight. Special teams CANNOT be costing them games right now.

 

[Turin]

nah, we don't have another right shot or another net front guy to take his place. He's a huge deal for us. He bounces between pure netfront and being a threat in the same spot Oshie sits for the Caps.

Though I guess you mean there's an issue with the setup without him, which is true. We need to work from the other side of the ice more without him because we replace him with a left shot.

That’s what I mean. It doesn’t make sense to have so much talent and the least talented guy on the PP is your lynchpin. It’s great for when he’s there but plenty of teams have great powerplays without a Hornqvist.

 

[Peat]

Huh. There’s something wrong with the set up if it’s that dependent on one guy, never mind a guy who isn’t exactly a star.

You may have a point there, although I'd argue Horny is a star when it comes to the noble art of net presence. I suspect they might be counting 2nd unit stats in that, which would be quite misleading...

Hrm.

PP w/ Sid and Horny: 12.96 g/60
PP w/ Sid and Jake: 7.84 g/60

 

[BHD]

Happy Birthday JMFJ

1:30

When someone tries to say something positive about Johnson's game.