Coach Discussion: All Purpose Coaching Thread Part III

[DashingDane]

Yes it can make a difference - it could just as easily get much worse. In fact, if Mo is "very good" for the Jets, you are rolling the dice in hopes that "fresh" will be even better.
I don't buy into the theory that New is Better when it comes to coaching - it's a baseless assumption.

I agree with this but think both are a risk. Who is to say the Jets aren’t two time Stanley cup champs with a different coach? A stretch yes, but we don’t know. My point was simply that Paul has likely used up all of his praise and scolding techniques and I wouldn’t mind a change.

 

[DashingDane]

I don't think I have ever watched a whole soccer game in my life so yeah I would have no knowledge of what happens in those leagues.

fair enough

 

[ps241]

If Maurice in fact wants to join the Seattle and they want him the ball will be in his court.

Based on the hand Paul was dealt this year and on how this season has started the Jets are not replacing Maurice unless the team magically quits on him which I don’t see happening this year.

 

[Eyeseeing]

He has a very strong connection to Seattle gm Ron Francis. So there's that coupled with this being his last year under contract to the Jets. Minus the fact that he's currently building a multi million dollar house in south Winnipeg.

Next door to Stastny and Elvis

 

[Bob E]

This PMo to Seattle rumor has me thinking about whether I’d miss him or not.

He has found success here, but could another coach have done the same or better with the talent Chevy has assembled? Has PMo got the best out of our players and roster, or held them back?

When some decisions are taken out of his hands, like he can’t play Buff too many minutes to the detriment of his game when he’s out of the lineup, seems to benefit the team. And it seems to take an unfortunate injury for changes to be made that have a positive impact to the lineup, and ultimately team results.

PMo’s hand has to be forced in order to make the right move. Splitting Scheifele and Wheeler is another example. If PMo showed he is willing to make the obvious moves, without being forced to do it, I would support him 110%. But he stubbornly does his lineup thing almost like Babcock and other old-school coaches do.

A change may be better for all.

 

[Jets 31]

If Maurice gets this defense into the playoffs how could you want a new coach . Trouba gone , Myers gone , Charoit gone , Buff basically gone , Kulikov also basically gone because he can't stay healthy . I'd like to see any coach deal with that turnover in one off season and see what they could do .

 

[Jets 31]

This PMo to Seattle rumor has me thinking about whether I’d miss him or not.

He has found success here, but could another coach have done the same or better with the talent Chevy has assembled? Has PMo got the best out of our players and roster, or held them back?

When some decisions are taken out of his hands, like he can’t play Buff too many minutes to the detriment of his game when he’s out of the lineup, seems to benefit the team. And it seems to take an unfortunate injury for changes to be made that have a positive impact to the lineup, and ultimately team results.

PMo’s hand has to be forced in order to make the right move. Splitting Scheifele and Wheeler is another example. If PMo showed he is willing to make the obvious moves, without being forced to do it, I would support him 110%. But he stubbornly does his lineup thing almost like Babcock and other old-school coaches do.

A change may be better for all.

I agree the Scheifele Wheeler combo had to be broken and it took Maurice a while to do it but he could still have Scheifele and Wheeler together right now if he wanted . When the Jets have struggled in a couple of games this year he didn't put Scheifele and Wheeler back on the same line he moved other players around , i think that's a good sign even if , when Little comes back he's going to keep them apart .

 

[KingBogo]

This PMo to Seattle rumor has me thinking about whether I’d miss him or not.

He has found success here, but could another coach have done the same or better with the talent Chevy has assembled? Has PMo got the best out of our players and roster, or held them back?

When some decisions are taken out of his hands, like he can’t play Buff too many minutes to the detriment of his game when he’s out of the lineup, seems to benefit the team. And it seems to take an unfortunate injury for changes to be made that have a positive impact to the lineup, and ultimately team results.

PMo’s hand has to be forced in order to make the right move. Splitting Scheifele and Wheeler is another example. If PMo showed he is willing to make the obvious moves, without being forced to do it, I would support him 110%. But he stubbornly does his lineup thing almost like Babcock and other old-school coaches do.

A change may be better for all.

So if Maurice was as smart as HF Board posters and he was able to see all these simple moves that are so obvious to some of us how many points would we have?

 

[10Ducky10]

We lost our starting right side on D from last year.
Our 2C has played 7 games this year.
The starting D has Potato, Sbisa and Dahlstrom all playing on it.
Poolman is playing on the first pairing.
We were waiting for Beaulieu to get back on the team because he was needed and better than most D that were playing???
Mainly because of injuries we were/are icing a 4th line that is getting owned most shifts.
We are on pace for a 102-103 point season.

Let's fire the coach because a change will be better...good grief Charlie Brown.

I'd give him a 3 year extension.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

We lost our starting right side on D from last year.
Our 2C has played 7 games this year.
The starting D has Potato, Sbisa and Dahlstrom all playing on it.
Poolman is playing on the first pairing.
We were waiting for Beaulieu to get back on the team because he was needed and better than most D that were playing???
Mainly because of injuries we were/are icing a 4th line that is getting owned most shifts.
We are on pace for a 102-103 point season.

Let's fire the coach because a change will be better...good grief Charlie Brown.

I'd give him a 3 year extension.

You could offer a 3 year extension, and he could say no. I think that's the gist of the discussion right now. Does Maurice want to commit here, or see what free agency brings and possibly move on? Maybe more money, fresh challenges, some of both. @Spock could probably give us exact odds , but I think the chances of him leaving are greater than staying just because of the Ron Francis connection. And the fact that Seattle air doesn't make your face hurt.

 

[KingBogo]

We lost our starting right side on D from last year.
Our 2C has played 7 games this year.
The starting D has Potato, Sbisa and Dahlstrom all playing on it.
Poolman is playing on the first pairing.
We were waiting for Beaulieu to get back on the team because he was needed and better than most D that were playing???
Mainly because of injuries we were/are icing a 4th line that is getting owned most shifts.
We are on pace for a 102-103 point season.

Let's fire the coach because a change will be better...good grief Charlie Brown.

I'd give him a 3 year extension.

Agreed. And for those who follow Murat in the Athletic, it sounds like there were discussions about splitting up Scheifele and Wheeler long before it happened. Last year it seems the organization was waiting on Laine to earn it. It sounds like it was eventually going to happen. IMO at least it was Laine's much improved and well rounded game this season that was a major factor it it happening. Wheeler going to center rather than 2nd line RW was forced by Little's injury, but here Maurice went against the thoughts of most HF Board posters who thought Wheeler at center was a bad idea.

 

[GaryPoppins]

We lost our starting right side on D from last year.
Our 2C has played 7 games this year.
The starting D has Potato, Sbisa and Dahlstrom all playing on it.
Poolman is playing on the first pairing.
We were waiting for Beaulieu to get back on the team because he was needed and better than most D that were playing???
Mainly because of injuries we were/are icing a 4th line that is getting owned most shifts.
We are on pace for a 102-103 point season.

Let's fire the coach because a change will be better...good grief Charlie Brown.

I'd give him a 3 year extension.

I just worry how much is being masked by Hellebuyck playing at Vezina calibre. What kind of results do we get with league average goaltending?

Tbh, I don't think Chevy is naive enough to ignore that and wants to see more and how it shakes out if Helle does come down to earth.

 

[surixon]

But being willing to step back comes with a lot of risk for a coach. He may have the support of the GM to take a step back and develop the young prospects, but you are then also the first casualty if the pressure mounts on the organization to make changes. I will agree that Maurice was in a better spot than most coaching for a patient and methodical GM and within an organization that puts a strong emphasis on loyalty.

Throughout sports history most championship teams have had stable and long term leadership at the coaching and GM levels and only swap out when a team underachieves for a period of time. It certainly doesn't happen when the general consensus is that a team has preformed to a level far above expectations.

While I agree that it was a risk to take a step back, I highly doubt Maurice having come from the KHL a year and a half prior was under any illusions that there was a large market for his services in the NHL. I think he was smart enough to realise his best way to stick around in the NHL was to carry out management's plan.

Also if he wasn't willing to carry out the plan he would have likely been sent packing in favor of someone who would carry it out.

 

[Guffman]

So if Maurice was as smart as HF Board posters and he was able to see all these simple moves that are so obvious to some of us how many points would we have?

If we left things up to HFBoards, Roslovic would be struggling at centre, we wouldn’t have traded for Pionk, we’d have our inexperienced Moose defensemen playing instead of our waiver wire pick-ups, Hellebuyck would have been benched for awhile after that early season post-game interview deflecting blame from a bad game, Maurice would have been fired after four games...

So, getting back to your question, where would we be if majority forum opinion ruled the day? Tanking badly at this point.

 

[LowLefty]

You could offer a 3 year extension, and he could say no. I think that's the gist of the discussion right now. Does Maurice want to commit here, or see what free agency brings and possibly move on? Maybe more money, fresh challenges, some of both. @Spock could probably give us exact odds , but I think the chances of him leaving are greater than staying just because of the Ron Francis connection. And the fact that Seattle air doesn't make your face hurt.

I think there's more than the Francis connection -
How do you think he is perceived by the NHL's who's who right now?
I'd go out on a limb and say he's considered a top tier coach at this point - especially after this season and what he's been able to do.

I get that non-MO fans will jump in and claim most of the success was based on other factors - but I don't think many of the fore mentioned would necessarily agree.

Those that don't like him, will give him very little credit - those that do, will give him a lot of it.
Out side of this board, I don't hear a lot from the prior group - at least not recently and that's what most will look at when measuring this guy.

Unless you really have a dislike for this coach, why would anyone dwell on his record, failures or success, from 10 yrs go? Or his win/loss record over his career? Is that stuff worth rehashing at this point? What does any of it have to do with what's happening right now?

I wouldn't be surprised to see this guy on a lot of short lists right now.

On your last point, I just finished pushing a little snow off the driveway and it's true - my face hurts

 

[KingBogo]

I just worry how much is being masked by Hellebuyck playing at Vezina calibre. What kind of results do we get with league average goaltending?

Tbh, I don't think Chevy is naive enough to ignore that and wants to see more and how it shakes out if Helle does come down to earth.

Helly is paid to be a top tier goalie not an average goalie. He is currently 6th with a .931 SV% with goalies having played 10 games or more. There are 11 goalies between .941 and .925 and Helly is one of them. This group of goaltenders represent most of the serious contenders. All teams need Vezina caliber or damn close to it to be in the mix.

 

[Whileee]

It's natural for some fans to hope for a new coach. But think of all the teams that switched to a new coach and floundered. Maurice's record with the Jets has been very good and I don't think there are compelling reasons to think another coach would be an improvement. If they hire a new coach that is a dud, it might kill the Jets chances during a key window with a lot of talent. Be careful what you wish for...

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

If you have read the Murat article about Wheeler, it's clear that he has been making the decision about where he played - on the first line with Scheif. He now sees the light about making the team better playing on the second line, and the team having a 1a, 1b situation. Two lines that can dominate and score. This was obvious to so many people including people here. It had to be obvious to our coach. It is now obvious to Wheeler - straight out of the article. Why would Maurice, during our window, allow Wheeler to make this selfish decision to only play with Scheif, which did not make the team better. Could this be one of the reasons why Maurice has never won a championship ever? (not counting consolation prizes). Maurice is good at getting pretty good performance out of his rosters. But winning the Stanley Cup requires getting the most out of your roster, about taking advantage of small increments in performance too. Maximizing the team's probability of success. This thing - splitting up Scheif and Wheels, was a pretty good sized increment in performance for the team I believe, that Maurice wouldn't use for whatever reason. I would like our next coach to be a coach that doesn't defer lineup decisions to veterans, and that will make sometimes unpopular decisions if they benefit the team, not be forced into them or to wait for the players to make them themselves.

 

[ecolad]

I think there's more than the Francis connection -
How do you think he is perceived by the NHL's who's who right now?
I'd go out on a limb and say he's considered a top tier coach at this point - especially after this season and what he's been able to do.

I get that non-MO fans will jump in and claim most of the success was based on other factors - but I don't think many of the fore mentioned would necessarily agree.

Those that don't like him, will give him very little credit - those that do, will give him a lot of it.
Out side of this board, I don't hear a lot from the prior group - at least not recently and that's what most will look at when measuring this guy.

Unless you really have a dislike for this coach, why would anyone dwell on his record, failures or success, from 10 yrs go? Or his win/loss record over his career? Is that stuff worth rehashing at this point? What does any of it have to do with what's happening right now?

I wouldn't be surprised to see this guy on a lot of short lists right now.

On your last point, I just finished pushing a little snow off the driveway and it's true - my face hurts

A comparable question is- what does anything that`s happening right now have to do with it?
Yes, Maurice has done very well with making this current crew competitive beyond anything we might have expected. But that is because the current situation is where Maurice actually excells as a coach -with a limited roster he has doubled down on his philosophy of playing low-risk, low-event hockey, and it has worked very well to this date. But the org will ultimately have to ask itself if Maurice has the capability to grow and adjust as the roster holes are slowly filled in. Going forward, will the org be satisfied with ongoing mediocrity (mushy middle) ,or, will it be satisfied with nothing less than a legitimate ongoing contender? If the latter, Maurice may not be the right guy for coach.

 

[tbcwpg]

If you have read the Murat article about Wheeler, it's clear that he has been making the decision about where he played - on the first line with Scheif. He now sees the light about making the team better playing on the second line, and the team having a 1a, 1b situation. Two lines that can dominate and score. This was obvious to so many people including people here. It had to be obvious to our coach. It is now obvious to Wheeler - straight out of the article. Why would Maurice, during our window, allow Wheeler to make this selfish decision to only play with Scheif, which did not make the team better. Could this be one of the reasons why Maurice has never won a championship ever? (not counting consolation prizes). Maurice is good at getting pretty good performance out of his rosters. But winning the Stanley Cup requires getting the most out of your roster, about taking advantage of small increments in performance too. Maximizing the team's probability of success. This thing - splitting up Scheif and Wheels, was a pretty good sized increment in performance for the team I believe, that Maurice wouldn't use for whatever reason. I would like our next coach to be a coach that doesn't defer lineup decisions to veterans, and that will make sometimes unpopular decisions if they benefit the team, not be forced into them or to wait for the players to make them themselves.

I don't think it's as simple as that. Yes, another coach may have split them up. They may not have done as well if Wheeler wasn't on board with the move as well. It seems to have sparked a change in Wheeler's thinking for the better - so many factors go into performance that the results may have been different had the change happened last year. Would it have been as good without Wheeler's change in attitude?

 

[Duke749]

I don't think it's as simple as that. Yes, another coach may have split them up. They may not have done as well if Wheeler wasn't on board with the move as well. It seems to have sparked a change in Wheeler's thinking for the better - so many factors go into performance that the results may have been different had the change happened last year. Would it have been as good without Wheeler's change in attitude?

There’s really no point in constantly beating that dead horse over and over with a holier then thou attitude. Your post points out the exact reason why and everyone should just move on. Things within the team were clearly an issue last year. But NOW, that is far from the case and we should move forward. The team already has.

 

[PhilJets]

If Maurice gets this defense into the playoffs how could you want a new coach . Trouba gone , Myers gone , Charoit gone , Buff basically gone , Kulikov also basically gone because he can't stay healthy . I'd like to see any coach deal with that turnover in one off season and see what they could do .

That defense was supoose to go all the way last year though? The worst brainfart was Trouba in game 5.

Really its only a lost of Trouba, which we don't know if it had a locker room impact or not.

The impact of the shattered defense is being over blown.
If ever the 1 player the suffering the most is the only 1 playing. JMO. The new guys holding their ground. They play more as a unit. Tou would like them to free up the forwaeda more with outler passes. But thats not who they are now.

Jets got elite top 6 and elite goalie.
That carries a huge weight on the success of a team.


Previously on earlier Jets version they had good defense but bad forward group and mediocre goalie. Didnt get them anywhere.

Though im not saying to get a new coach, nope.
Just noticing team is not as tense as last year.

 

[10Ducky10]

You could offer a 3 year extension, and he could say no. I think that's the gist of the discussion right now. Does Maurice want to commit here, or see what free agency brings and possibly move on? Maybe more money, fresh challenges, some of both. @Spock could probably give us exact odds , but I think the chances of him leaving are greater than staying just because of the Ron Francis connection. And the fact that Seattle air doesn't make your face hurt.

I think that if Chevy offers him a reasonable deal, he will take it without even thinking of moving somewhere else. He loves it here and so does is family.
That is if his deal actually does expire this year. He extended in September of 2017 with a year left on that deal so if he signed a 3 year deal, wouldn't it expire at the end of the next season?

 

[Bob E]

So if Maurice was as smart as HF Board posters and he was able to see all these simple moves that are so obvious to some of us how many points would we have?

Multiple cups by now I reckon.

 

[Ducky10]

There always seems to be a new reason to discredit Maurice for the success the team is having. The team is doing well, he’s a big part of it.