All-purpose Bylsma/coaching discussion thread

[wgknestrick]

5. Using the D to force offense... couple this with forwards that are cherrypicking and waiting on rushed predictable passes rather than actually giving puck support in their own end.. just in general abuse of defense.

I don't know who does actually play defense on this team.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

I don't know who does actually play defense on this team.

Apparently Theo Fleury tweeted that only 5 players on the Pens were committed to playing defense. I couldn't figure out who those 5 were.

 

[IcedCapp]

Apparently Theo Fleury tweeted that only 5 players on the Pens were committed to playing defense. I couldn't figure out who those 5 were.

Geno, Maatta... ...

Hm...

What really grinds my gears about Sid: He hasn't been "bad" defensively, because every time there's about to be a defensive shift he's like, "What's that? Sorry, someone just called me for a shift change!"

 

[Freeptop]

I've been a Bylsma supporter in the past. Even this season, I moved to the fence, but was still more on his side than against him. I could at least see reasons why things didn't work the way they might have been intended before.

Not anymore.

Good defense isn't just chipping the puck off the glass and hoping it doesn't end up either getting picked off by the opposing defenseman or going all the way for an icing call. If this team is supposed to be a puck possession team, then what's the point in freely giving the puck back to them just outside your own blue-line (or just inside, for that matter) every time?

The entirely-too-cute plays where they try for one extra pass, have been going on for far too long.

The retaliations that always get called have been going on for too long.

The fact that a talented group of defensemen look like they don't know how to play defense anymore is simply embarrassing.

I'd still rather the Pens win in the playoffs, but the way they're playing, they won't make it out of the second round. At that point, I'd rather they lost to the Blue Jackets, because at least I could feel good for them winning their first playoff series that way. It's going to be really annoying to lose to either the Rangers, or, if the Pens somehow get lucky, the Bruins again.
It would be even worse if it ended up being another loss to the Flyers.

The team has gotten complacent. Time to shake things up.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

Geno, Maatta... ...

Hm...

What really grinds my gears about Sid: He hasn't been "bad" defensively, because every time there's about to be a defensive shift he's like, "What's that? Sorry, someone just called me for a shift change!"

Maatta hasn't been around long enough to fully absorb our culture. He doesn't know things just happen for us; no need to work for them.

Geno...I just feel bad for Geno. He does everything for line 2. Everything.

 

[Coach Travis]

I actually quite like Bylsma but I do subscribe to the notion that every coach has a shelf life. Is his up? Maybe but I don't think so, but that's just me. For his strengths and his flaws though they're all meaningless when you don't have strong goaltending, and by which I mean mentally strong. Every team plays worse when they don't believe in their goaltender and I can't imagine this group feels any other way than unconfident.

 

[Shockmaster]

I actually quite like Bylsma but I do subscribe to the notion that every coach has a shelf life. Is his up? Maybe but I don't think so, but that's just me. For his strengths and his flaws though they're all meaningless when you don't have strong goaltending, and by which I mean mentally strong. Every team plays worse when they don't believe in their goaltender and I can't imagine this group feels any other way than unconfident.

Fleury's problems don't excuse Bylsma. There is plenty of reason to believe that Bylsma was kept one year too long regardless of goal tending.

 

[Fire Shero*]

I actually quite like Bylsma but I do subscribe to the notion that every coach has a shelf life. Is his up? Maybe but I don't think so, but that's just me. For his strengths and his flaws though they're all meaningless when you don't have strong goaltending, and by which I mean mentally strong. Every team plays worse when they don't believe in their goaltender and I can't imagine this group feels any other way than unconfident.

His shelf life was over after the Flyers season. He expired then. If he was a carton of milk, he'd be awfully chunky.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I actually quite like Bylsma but I do subscribe to the notion that every coach has a shelf life. Is his up? Maybe but I don't think so, but that's just me. For his strengths and his flaws though they're all meaningless when you don't have strong goaltending, and by which I mean mentally strong. Every team plays worse when they don't believe in their goaltender and I can't imagine this group feels any other way than unconfident.

I asked this before and didn't get a response. So I'm curious, what exactly is it about Bylsma's coaching that you like or that makes you believe he's a good coach?

Please don't just say something vague like "he keeps them winning through all those injuries". I'm talking more specifics, like systems, player usage, how he adapts, how he prepares, etc. That kind of thing.

 

[Coach Travis]

Whether it's coaching or players though, as Freetop said, it is time for a shakeup. Even just for the sake of a shake up. In my limited amount of experience coaching it seems to always re-energize the team when the roster changes. Not that I can make trades in Major midget hockey but players get injured, affiliates come up and somehow everyone gets excited about "the new kid". I look at some of the big names that Boston, Philly, or the Rangers have let go and it seems to work out for the better. We seem to hoard the same veterans and not give our youth movement a chance.

Next year, if we're going to go with Fleury again I'd like to see us not re-sign Orpik and give all these D prospects a chance. At least a couple of them have to be more than ready.

 

[IcedCapp]

I asked this before and didn't get a response. So I'm curious, what exactly is it about Bylsma's coaching that you like or that makes you believe he's a good coach?

Please don't just say something vague like "he keeps them winning through all those injuries". I'm talking more specifics, like systems, player usage, how he adapts, how he prepares, etc. That kind of thing.

I've asked this before. It never ends well. I wish you luck.

 

[Coach Travis]

I asked this before and didn't get a response. So I'm curious, what exactly is it about Bylsma's coaching that you like or that makes you believe he's a good coach?

Please don't just say something vague like "he keeps them winning through all those injuries". I'm talking more specifics, like systems, player usage, how he adapts, how he prepares, etc. That kind of thing.

I like Bylsma's approach to dealing with players, I personally feel there's very little (if not none at all) reason to berate players. I like his uptempo practices, I like how positive he is. His defensive puck retrieval system is great, his PK system has been consistently very very good despite ever changing personnel (Staal, Cooke, etc.). Just to name a few.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Bylsma's system is not the problem. Many top teams employ a version, and do well with it. His inability to adapt when called for is his problem. His lineup decisions, and refusal to match lines at home is a problem.

Nothing that couldn't be fixed with some relatively minor adjustments.

But he will not make those adjustments.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Iginla's clearing $6 million. Dupuis is under $4 million. We're snug at the cap. Not seeing an either/or situation. Not without an additional trade we were clearly not interested in making or no Scuderi signing, which I don't see not happening if we had let Dupes go to Montreal, either.

Dan would have played Iggy with Sutter or Malkin anyway and just put some other guy that doesn't make sense with Crosby on the first.

Shero could have gotten creative, but like you said, why bother with DB there.

I think Iggy's contract was bonus heavy, and a lot of the bonus money he hit was pushed into next season (4m and change).

If Boston wins the cup, it looks like a shrewd move IMHO.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I think Iggy's contract was bonus heavy, and a lot of the bonus money he hit was pushed into next season (4m and change).

If Boston wins the cup, it looks like a shrewd move IMHO.

Yeah, I read elsewhere on HF that Boston has some real issues next year because of Iggy's bonuses, among other things. Iggy has already hit pretty much all of that $6 million already, cup or not.

 

[Coach Travis]

I don't see how Boston could be in Cap trouble next year. It's going up to $71.1M. I wish we would have thought of that.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Bylsma's system is not the problem. Many top teams employ a version, and do well with it. His inability to adapt when called for is his problem. His lineup decisions, and refusal to match lines at home is a problem.

Nothing that couldn't be fixed with some relatively minor adjustments.

But he will not make those adjustments.

We have a system? Look at how SJ and Boston transition the puck out of their zone through passing and compare it to our team. The players on those teams always know where their outlet is. The Pens are like lost puppies.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I like Bylsma's approach to dealing with players, I personally feel there's very little (if not none at all) reason to berate players. I like his uptempo practices, I like how positive he is. His defensive puck retrieval system is great, his PK system has been consistently very very good despite ever changing personnel (Staal, Cooke, etc.). Just to name a few.

Follow up question:

If that's the case -- that Bylsma is a good coach -- then why does this Pens team look so structurally bad so often? What causes this team to too often look like they're playing pond hockey?

(I was being nice and didn't openly giggle at the "uptempo practices" comment by asking how you drew that conclusion when the team always cancels practices)

 

[billybudd]

I don't see how Boston could be in Cap trouble next year. It's going up to $71.1M. I wish we would have thought of that.

There are consequences for excess that get pushed to next year. I'm not sure if it's a straight subtraction, or if there's a penalty on top of that. And next year they've got Smith and Krug to re-sign. Both had monster seasons (for their experience level, anyway).

I don't know if they're actually in a bad situation or not, but I do know that the other 29 teams seem to be extremely hesitant to do what Boston's supposedly done. Flyers are notable risk takers on the management end and even they've balked at carrying overages, excepting the IR exemption.

But as has been mentioned, if they win the cup, does it really matter?

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Iginla's clearing $6 million. Dupuis is under $4 million. We're snug at the cap. Not seeing an either/or situation. Not without an additional trade we were clearly not interested in making or no Scuderi signing, which I don't see not happening if we had let Dupes go to Montreal, either.

Dan would have played Iggy with Sutter or Malkin anyway and just put some other guy that doesn't make sense with Crosby on the first.

You keep saying this even though people correct you every time you do.

When will the cap space myth die?

 

[Coach Travis]

Follow up question:

If that's the case -- that Bylsma is a good coach -- then why does this Pens team look so structurally bad so often? What causes this team to too often look like they're playing pond hockey?

(I was being nice and didn't openly giggle at the "uptempo practices" comment by asking how you drew that conclusion when the team always cancels practices)

So you're being nice by not openly giggling but then stating that you find it something to giggle about so how are you being nice again? I'm not sure what the idea is behind cancelling practices and I'm unaware of it being "always" which I take as hyperbole of "often which again, I'm unaware of. That could be happening I just don't know. I do know that when I've been able to see the Pens practice, as a coach, I say to myself, that's the type of practice that I would ideally run my players through. Uptempo, positive, lots of movement, less guys standing around waiting.

The only time I'd describe the Pens as playing pond hockey was in the series with the Flyers and at that time I feel like the Pens were just trying to score their way out of trouble because Fleury was letting in everything but Bryzgalov wasn't much better. When you don't trust your goaltending that's not the time to just give your opponent the perimeter. You can't afford to be patient.

I think Dan's biggest flaw though is his preference to to have his team "inflict their will" rather than read and react. But except for the series against Boston, it's all been null and void because Fleury has always been there. The one time that he has a decent goalie to turn to (Vokoun) our GAA, SV% sky rockets. Vokoun goes like 6-1 or something.

Maybe I'm drawing too much of my own experience as a coach but teams play according to how confident they are in their goaltending. In the regular season when Fleury's not a head case it doesn't matter who's missing from the lineup, DB's system just works. You put Fleury on any of the past 4 Stanley Cup champion teams and those teams don't win any cups.

 

[billybudd]

You keep saying this even though people correct you every time you do.

When will the cap space myth die?

Beg pardon? What part of Iginla has made $6 million this year is inaccurate, exactly? Why would someone correct me for stating Iginla is making what he's making? And when did this happen before you did just now?

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Beg pardon? What part of Iginla has made $6 million this year is inaccurate, exactly? Why would someone correct me for stating Iginla is making what he's making? And when did this happen before you did just now?

Iggy's cap hit is 1.8M, no 6M. Boston is deferring his bonuses till next year, when the cap goes up, which Shero could have easily done as well.

This was discussed in the previous "fire DB" thread a few times.

http://capgeek.com/player/438

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Iggy's cap hit is 1.8M, no 6M. Boston is deferring his bonuses till next year, when the cap goes up, which Shero could have easily done as well.

This was discussed in the previous "fire DB" thread a few times.

http://capgeek.com/player/438

Right. So of that $7 million of increased cap hit, Boston has already used up $4.2 million of it, with some significant signings left to make. In the thread I saw about this about a month go, there was even talk of cutting ties with Loui Eriksson for cap reasons next year.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Pretty much all of us the past few seasons after the Flyers debacle to Pens management, Pittsburgh reporters, etc.