All-Purpose Attendance Thread: Poll added

[Larionov]

They listed just over 10k in Fla the other day. I doubt there was half of that in the building

My guess is that they count sold seats, and of course Ottawa would be a ticket that many wouldn't use in their package...

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

It wasn't a sellout, but they were late arriving, by all accounts and clearly it filled quite nicely to a claimed 1K short of a sellout, on a treacherous evening. Nothing wrong with Flyers fans.

Whatever the reason, or why, I just find it sad how Senators fans are clamoring the internet to find lousy attendance, as if to make themselves feel better. This is a general statement, not directly HF, but you see it on twitter as well. Look, we are the worst in the league by a country mile for attendance. So, posting other teams when they have small crowds looks small minded. I guess it makes some feel better about Ottawa's situation, but I am not in that camp

No different than Senator fans labeling other Senator fans as "bad fans"

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

There was a snowstorm and some of those photos are in the 1st minute of the period.

read some of the comments in the tweet...

 

[coladin]

No different than Senator fans labeling other Senator fans as "bad fans"

Equally sad at how some try and find ways to incorporate how I hurt their feelings last year into something unrelated

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Equally sad at how some try and find ways to incorporate how I hurt their feelings last year into something unrelated

Ill will and distrust between fans and organization leads to low attendance. Pretty cut and dry. How is that unrelated?

 

[The Lewler]

Ill will and distrust between fans and organization leads to low attendance. Pretty cut and dry. How is that unrelated?

In the interest of serving the infinitely circuitous nature of this back and forth:

Coladins' position is that in this market, if the consumers stop paying to go to games, the team leaves, so they must keep holding their nose and pay while voicing their displeasure or else they will have nothing left to protest.

The counter position has usually been that in a business that relies on consensual transactions between paying fans and the teams entertainment product, the only power the fans have is to choose not to participate in that transaction until the product is changed or improved to their liking. If they keep paying, there is no real incentive to change.

Irresistible force, meet immovable object.

There I just saved 3 pages of rehashing this. You're all welcome.

 

[Micklebot]

In the interest of serving the infinitely circuitous nature of this back and forth:

Coladins' position is that in this market, if the consumers stop paying to go to games, the team leaves, so they must keep holding their nose and pay while voicing their displeasure or else they will have nothing left to protest.

The counter position has usually been that in a business that relies on consensual transactions between paying fans and the teams entertainment product, the only power the fans have is to choose not to participate in that transaction until the product is changed or improved to their liking. If they keep paying, there is no real incentive to change.

Irresistible force, meet immovable object.

There I just saved 3 pages of rehashing this. You're all welcome.

You really need to put a spoiler tag on posts like these. What's in the next act, are you going to tell me who Keyser Soze is and who Luke's father is?

 

[GrantLemons]

In the interest of serving the infinitely circuitous nature of this back and forth:

Coladins' position is that in this market, if the consumers stop paying to go to games, the team leaves, so they must keep holding their nose and pay while voicing their displeasure or else they will have nothing left to protest.

The counter position has usually been that in a business that relies on consensual transactions between paying fans and the teams entertainment product, the only power the fans have is to choose not to participate in that transaction until the product is changed or improved to their liking. If they keep paying, there is no real incentive to change.

Irresistible force, meet immovable object.

There I just saved 3 pages of rehashing this. You're all welcome.

I can't wait to be told I'm not a diehard fan because I don't go to games when the franchise is being run worse than the lemonade stand my neighbour's daughters run.

 

[JD1]

You really need to put a spoiler tag on posts like these. What's in the next act, are you going to tell me who Keyser Soze is and who Luke's father is?

You don't know who Luke's father is? Geezus....you need to get out from that government cubicle and live a little...now Keyser Soze is another matter....I'm waiting for him to show up in James Spader's Blacklist so that we can solve that little mystery once and for all

 

[JD1]

I can't wait to be told I'm not a diehard fan because I don't go to games when the franchise is being run worse than the lemonade stand my neighbour's daughters run.

Allow me to take you out of your suspense

You are a bad fan because you don't go to games when the franchise is being run worse than the neighbour kid's lemonade stand

Feel better now?

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

I can't wait to be told I'm not a diehard fan because I don't go to games when the franchise is being run worse than the lemonade stand my neighbour's daughters run.

You're just biased toward the lemonade stand, GrantLEMONS!!!

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

In the interest of serving the infinitely circuitous nature of this back and forth:

Coladins' position is that in this market, if the consumers stop paying to go to games, the team leaves, so they must keep holding their nose and pay while voicing their displeasure or else they will have nothing left to protest.

The counter position has usually been that in a business that relies on consensual transactions between paying fans and the teams entertainment product, the only power the fans have is to choose not to participate in that transaction until the product is changed or improved to their liking. If they keep paying, there is no real incentive to change.

Irresistible force, meet immovable object.

There I just saved 3 pages of rehashing this. You're all welcome.

You forgot to add the part where it is an embarrassment to the league and the rest of Canada that a Canadian fan base can be so finicky.

/.

 

[GrantLemons]

Allow me to take you out of your suspense

You are a bad fan because you don't go to games when the franchise is being run worse than the neighbour kid's lemonade stand

Feel better now?

Yes, thank you. Flipping a table every now and then is kind of therapeutic.

 

[coladin]

In the interest of serving the infinitely circuitous nature of this back and forth:

Coladins' position is that in this market, if the consumers stop paying to go to games, the team leaves, so they must keep holding their nose and pay while voicing their displeasure or else they will have nothing left to protest.

The counter position has usually been that in a business that relies on consensual transactions between paying fans and the teams entertainment product, the only power the fans have is to choose not to participate in that transaction until the product is changed or improved to their liking. If they keep paying, there is no real incentive to change.

Irresistible force, meet immovable object.

There I just saved 3 pages of rehashing this. You're all welcome.

I can speak for myself. Thanks anyways.

You also missed that if fans don't go to games, revenues suffer and stars cannot be paid. When I went to that embarrassment in the playoffs, the Rangers game, I turned to my friend and said "there is no way they will afford Karlsson". I was right. 7000 STHs cannot carry an 80+ million player. Ottawa's sugar daddy had enough. Now, we need another sugar daddy.

I did hold my nose in 2017-2018, possibly the worst season ever. But I went, you know, always hopeful as many fans are (the dumb ones according to you).

The counter position completely takes out the emotion of sports. Which has always, always , made it a red herring of an argument. Fake, and intellectually dishonest. Let's hope that the next sugar daddy understands this market, its intricacies, and if it is indeed local, they will know how to market to the emotionless, soulless, vapid majority of fans.

You are right though, irresistible force meets an immovable object.

Feel free to disagree, of course. But it is not personal, and like it or not , that is how I feel. I don't pick on anyone specifically anymore for not going because it comes across as small. Virtue signalling is an awful quality and yes, from both sides. So I will kindly stay away from that and hopefully everyone else will make the forum a better place

 

[GCK]

10407 tonight. Ugly number.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

10407 tonight. Ugly number.

Reminds me of the 407 ETR ....makes billions

Government screwed the taxpayers over... and people take it even though it costs a lot

 

[JungleBeat]

Did the Sens hit under 10k yet?

 

[coladin]

10407 tonight. Ugly number.

Looked better than that, honestly. Not to worry , once Melnyk sells they will all come back. We will be over 12K

 

[SensFactor]

Looked better than that, honestly. Not to worry , once Melnyk sells they will all come back. We will be over 12K

If Melynk sells we will avg about 13k

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

If Melynk sells we will avg about 13k

Never. People will only pay for a good product.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

The counter position completely takes out the emotion of sports. Which has always, always , made it a red herring of an argument. Fake, and intellectually dishonest.

Look, you're entitled to your view but this is pretty disingenuous. The organization has been preaching that it's a business when they make unpopular moves. The fanbase agreeing that it's a business and treating it as such isn't intellectually dishonest – it's telling the team their spin has worked. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that I don't feel nearly as emotionally invested in this team as I once did. Down Goes Brown has an analogy he trots out every so often – fandom isn't a switch to be turned off and on, but a dial. So while you're technically right in saying you can't take the emotion out of sport, you sure as hell can dial it way back. And in that aspect, the organization has succeeded.

 

[coladin]

Look, you're entitled to your view but this is pretty disingenuous. The organization has been preaching that it's a business when they make unpopular moves. The fanbase agreeing that it's a business and treating it as such isn't intellectually dishonest – it's telling the team their spin has worked. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that I don't feel nearly as emotionally invested in this team as I once did. Down Goes Brown has an analogy he trots out every so often – fandom isn't a switch to be turned off and on, but a dial. So while you're technically right in saying you can't take the emotion out of sport, you sure as hell can dial it way back. And in that aspect, the organization has succeeded.

It is not disingenuous.

I don't blame others for my choices. If I decide to abandon my team, it is for my reasons, and everyone will have their own reasons. If you are trying to sell that the team "convinced" fans to turn off their dial, well, we all know that being disingenuous is quite the thing around here. The fanbase is not agreeing with the organization because, as you would know, the fans are supposed to be protesting the organization. The "vocal minority". People staying away because the owner is a meanie. Or would you like everything both ways?

Hockey is a business, yes. They require money to run the business and unfortunately, sometimes walking away from an 8yr-88M player has business implications. That is inescapable. Emotion in certain sports scenarios can cloud judgement as the litany of godawful contracts given to Sharks players proves. But by and large, and I don't know you personally, I don't think you do the wave at your favourite restaurant, or high five the cashier when you buy a toaster, or go to message boards of other consumer related business products obsessing about the employees that work there

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

It is not disingenuous.

I don't blame others for my choices. If I decide to abandon my team, it is for my reasons, and everyone will have their own reasons. If you are trying to sell that the team "convinced" fans to turn off their dial, well, we all know that being disingenuous is quite the thing around here. The fanbase is not agreeing with the organization because, as you would know, the fans are supposed to be protesting the organization. The "vocal minority". People staying away because the owner is a meanie. Or would you like everything both ways?

Hockey is a business, yes. They require money to run the business and unfortunately, sometimes walking away from an 8yr-88M player has business implications. That is inescapable. Emotion in certain sports scenarios can cloud judgement as the litany of godawful contracts given to Sharks players proves. But by and large, and I don't know you personally, I don't think you do the wave at your favourite restaurant, or high five the cashier when you buy a toaster, or go to message boards of other consumer related business products obsessing about the employees that work there

I don't see where the disconnect is, here – the fans you seem eager to deride are treating the organization as a business and are boycotting bad business practices, including poor management. Those concepts usually go pretty hand in hand.

(EDIT: before you take it in a way I don't intend, I want to clarify that the main poor business practice I'm referring to is repeatedly lying to the customer.)

Also – how awesome is this toaster, exactly?

 

[BatherSeason]

Hockey is a business, yes. They require money to run the business and unfortunately, sometimes walking away from an 8yr-88M player has business implications. That is inescapable. Emotion in certain sports scenarios can cloud judgement as the litany of godawful contracts given to Sharks players proves

The "boycott" or "protest has nothing to do with Erik Karlsson being traded, there are multiple ways that they could have accomplished that, without alienating the fanbase. I will post a post from another thread. I wasn't sure that this needed to be explained anymore, but here we are:

You guys are missing the point as to why a lot of fans were furious I think. Yes partly due to Karlsson being traded but I believe it has more to do with how it was managed by the team. From Melnyk down to Dorion.

It was clear that the 'sell off' plan was made very last min as Duchene was traded for (which we gave up a high pick) 4 months before we heard that trade options will be explored with Karlsson at the deadline. Then the fans showed backlash towards the team and we got Dorion coming out and saying that we will be offering Karlsson a contract. All this was just dishonest and left a bad taste in everyones mouth. Additionally. Hoffman was traded for a cap dump to again try to appease karlsson and the fans when the team had already decided that Karlsson was going to be traded (Hoffman could have been kept then traded later... It was clear Dorion took the Karlsson's side of the story from his press conference after Hoff was traded)

This to no surprise led us down a path were we were going to give up a very high pick (Karlsson carried this team and without him it wasn't going anywhere) Then the eventual trade of Stone (Why would he stay after watching Karlsson and Hoffman go out the door?) and then Duchene.

Fans were furious about the lack of management that was shown and value of players were also dropping due to poor oversight and foresight by the team management. Wasted assets and sabotaging the value of your own players.

 

[coladin]

I don't see where the disconnect is, here – the fans you seem eager to deride are treating the organization as a business and are boycotting bad business practices, including poor management. Those concepts usually go pretty hand in hand.

(EDIT: before you take it in a way I don't intend, I want to clarify that the main poor business practice I'm referring to is repeatedly lying to the customer.)

Also – how awesome is this toaster, exactly?

The toaster is reliable. dependable, and always works when asked. It is the perfect product for Ottawa NHL hockey fans