All-Purpose Attendance Thread: Poll added

[GrantLemons]

~3500 STH in a city of 1 million+. That is insane.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Cross posting this because it's just as relevant here:



Woof


So, for historical context:

2007-08	13000-13500
2008-09	~10000
2009-10	Unavailable
2010-11	10000
2011-12	11300
2012-13	pacing at ~13000 in june, Up 15% at the same time last year, but I doubt they hit 13000 given there was the lockout that year,or maybe that helps, idk
2013-14	12000, no more comps to STH as bonus for renew/purchase.
2014-15	Unavailable
2015-16	Unavailable
2016-17	Unavailable
2017-18	~8000
2018-19	~4000
2019-20	~3500

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The stigma is a concern. It will be a long time turning it around to the 10,000 mark

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Cross posting this because it's just as relevant here:



Woof


So, for historical context:

2007-08	13000-13500
2008-09	~10000
2009-10	Unavailable
2010-11	10000
2011-12	11300
2012-13	pacing at ~13000 in june, Up 15% at the same time last year, but I doubt they hit 13000 given there was the lockout that year,or maybe that helps, idk
2013-14	12000, no more comps to STH as bonus for renew/purchase.
2014-15	Unavailable
2015-16	Unavailable
2016-17	Unavailable
2017-18	~8000
2018-19	~4000
2019-20	~3500

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Interesting how season tickets increased after people had faith in the rebuild in 2011.

I guess calling people fickle is easier though.

 

[Artanis]

~3500 STH in a city of 1 million+. That is insane.

Are you really that surprised?

 

[Micklebot]

~3500 STH in a city of 1 million+. That is insane.

Bit of additional info to put the Season ticket sales into context

Year	STH	Home attendance
2016-17	N/A	16744
2017-18	~8000	15376 (outdoor game removed)
2018-19	~4000	14553
2019-20	~3500	11715 (4 games)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

There were lots of freebies last year, far more confirmed than the prior year, and we know our current number to date includes a BOGO offer.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Bit of additional info to put the Season ticket sales into context

Year	STH	Home attendance
2016-17	N/A	16744
2017-18	~8000	15376 (outdoor game removed)
2018-19	~4000	14553
2019-20	~3500	11715 (4 games)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

There were lots of freebies last year, far more confirmed than the prior year, and we know our current number to date includes a BOGO offer.

I remember someone on this board say that even during our peak attendance years that lots of freebies were given out as well. Not sure how to validate that claim though

 

[Micklebot]

I remember someone on this board say that even during our peak attendance years that lots of freebies were given out as well. Not sure how to validate that claim though

There are many ways to define freebies. We definitely did do it back in the day: season ticket purchases made before the "early bird" date for example used to receive bonus tickets. That practice ended when the NHL redefined how it internally defined paid attendance to no longer include those tickets. We likely just rejigged how we did the incentive though, maybe an equivalent discount was applied or some other perk. But is that the same as what we're seeing these days? I would say no. BOGO offers for opening night was never a thing that I can recall.

Back as early as 2014, they started drastically cutting back on freebies though, and the cut backs continued until around the 2017-18 season from what I understand.

 

[BondraTime]

My sister, who taught in Ottawa last year, had called me one day to say she and a dozen or so others were just offered free tickets while she was lined up inside Tim Horton's and how she was pumped to be able to get a ticket like that for free. She was surprised when she saw a handful turn them down outright.

She was obviously unaware of the climate regarding the Sens, which myself and her BF explained to her prior to them going to the game.

 

[Micklebot]

My sister, who taught in Ottawa last year, had called me one day to say she and a dozen or so others were just offered free tickets while she was lined up inside Tim Horton's and how she was pumped to be able to get a ticket like that for free. She was surprised when she saw a handful turn them down outright.

She was obviously unaware of the climate regarding the Sens, which myself and her BF explained to her prior to them going to the game.

Handing them out at a tim hortons is the kind of papering that people think of when discussing artificial attendance.

On the flip side, promotional tickets like Sportcheck giving a ticket away with the purchase of an authentic jersey or season ticket renewal promos seems far more organic and above board.

I saw on reddit a thread about season ticket holders being able to apply a promo code at purchase of a pair of tickets to the season opener, the resulting discount was two free tickets no purchase required.

 

[coladin]

There are many ways to define freebies. We definitely did do it back in the day: season ticket purchases made before the "early bird" date for example used to receive bonus tickets. That practice ended when the NHL redefined how it internally defined paid attendance to no longer include those tickets. We likely just rejigged how we did the incentive though, maybe an equivalent discount was applied or some other perk. But is that the same as what we're seeing these days? I would say no. BOGO offers for opening night was never a thing that I can recall.

Back as early as 2014, they started drastically cutting back on freebies though, and the cut backs continued until around the 2017-18 season from what I understand.

All season ticket holders received 4 to 6 bonus tickets. I had received from 99 up to about 2016, and then they stopped the practice. They now give away at least one pair in the VIP packages.

 

[Micklebot]

All season ticket holders received 4 to 6 bonus tickets. I had received from 99 up to about 2016, and then they stopped the practice. They now give away at least one pair in the VIP packages.

This kind of giveaway I have no issue with. Incentivizing season tickets is important, as a strong season ticket base makes everything easier in the long run. Whether you give people a 10% discount, or 10% back in free tickets, doesn't really matter. That's the cost of doing business, giving your top customers a better deal.

On the flip side, random handouts to boost attendance or BOGO on opening night the way we're seeing these days seems more reactive and more akin to damage control.

The former is a healthy business practice imo, the latter is a sign of things going extremely poorly.

 

[Matsens15]

I vote the last options. I use to go to CTC maybe 20X a year. Since Melnyk went out at the heritage classic about moving the team and blame everything on the fan, i didn’t go once. Not a single time. I don’t plan going until he sell the team. Even if he own 0.01% of that team I will never go back to encourage that piece of ****. You can’t blame the fans. They are your bread and butter.

 

[The Lewler]

9740 reported?

8k eye test?

 

[Sun God Nika]

i was suppose to go to the game today. only game i wanted to see out of 41 (karlsson) and i missed it. yikes might be the first year i dont see the sens live at all.

 

[Peptic Balcers]

9740 reported?

8k eye test?

welcome home Erik?

 

[Ouroboros]

Bring back the tarps.

 

[BonkTastic]

9740 reported?

8k eye test?

Yep.

I was at the game, no way there was close to 10k tonight.

8k max, easily. It felt like a 2nd tier concert tonight, attendance-wise. Easiest I've ever left the parking lot. Was on the Queensway within 5 minutes of getting in the car.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Yep.

I was at the game, no way there was close to 10k tonight.

8k max, easily. It felt like a 2nd tier concert tonight, attendance-wise. Easiest I've ever left the parking lot. Was on the Queensway within 5 minutes of getting in the car.

So... they lie to the NHL and get away with?

Give me a break. No way.

 

[BonkTastic]

So... they lie to the NHL and get away with?

Give me a break. No way.

Look, I'm telling you what I saw with my eyes, based on my YEARS of working in that building and seeing crowds of all sizes, from hockey, to concerts, to other events.

Maybe I'm wrong, it's entirely possible, but my gut says absolutely no way there was 9.7k people at that game tonight.

Believe whatever you want to believe. I'm fine with my claim.

I can tell you this much - assuming that attendance numbers haven't been fudged by close to half of the teams in the NHL over the past decade is probably a hill you don't want to die on. From everything I used to hear, the league really doesn't monitor those things close enough to guarantee the numbers are airtight.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Look, I'm telling you what I saw with my eyes, based on my YEARS of working in that building and seeing crowds of all sizes, from hockey, to concerts, to other events.

Maybe I'm wrong, it's entirely possible, but my gut says absolutely no way there was 9.7k people at that game tonight.

Believe whatever you want to believe. I'm fine with my claim.

I can tell you this much - assuming that attendance numbers haven't been fudged by close to half of the teams in the NHL over the past decade is probably a hill you don't want to die on. From everything I used to hear, the league really doesn't monitor those things close enough to guarantee the numbers are airtight.

I think it is more of you seeing what you want to see. The discussion has been had before that the attendance numbers relate to profit sharing in the league, so doubtful that is could be off more than 1%

 

[BonkTastic]

I think it is more of you seeing what you want to see. The discussion has been had before that the attendance numbers relate to profit sharing in the league, so doubtful that is could be off more than 1%

I disagree, but there's nothing I can say that's going to convince you otherwise, so I'm fine just leaving it at that.

 

[Rand0m]

The attendance numbers themselves mean nothing to revenue sharing. The league doesn’t care if 25% of the tickets were free, they just care about how much revenue was generated each game and that’s what’s used for revenue the sharing calculation.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

The attendance numbers themselves mean nothing to revenue sharing. The league doesn’t care if 25% of the tickets were free, they just care about how much revenue was generated each game and that’s what’s used for revenue the sharing calculation.

I believe you are wrong. Your friend Sensung had a thread on this.

Have a look at this link

 

[BonkTastic]

I believe you are wrong. Your friend Sensung had a thread on this.

Have a look at this link

Attendance matters for revenue sharing in that the higher (average) attendance you have, the closer you are to maxing out your Rev. Sharing payout if you find yourself in the "have-not" side of the revenue ledger.

That said, there's nothing related to attendance for Revenue Sharing that
a) cares about whether or not tickets were sold or given away for free
b) cares whether or not the recipient of the ticket actually went to the game or not.

Revenue sharing just looks at "reported attendance", and there's no league standards on that. If anything, the revenue sharing / attendance relationship probably encourages fudged (padded) attendance numbers more than anything else.

The NHL for years has been low-key accused of inflating attendance numbers (I think someone in that thread even mentions it). "Official" attendance for some clubs, at various times throughout the last decade, is just the number of tickets issued, not butts in the seats. And the league doesn't really do much fact-checking on the numbers provided to them, or so I've understood it to be in the past.

 

[Spartachat]

So... they lie to the NHL and get away with?

Give me a break. No way.

The team probably gave away tickets and the people didn’t show.