All-Purpose Attendance Thread: Poll added

[Emerica]

One game at a time

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

The league will most likely look for a buyer that will keep the team in Ottawa. If they move the Sens from Ottawa, other teams in worse conditions that the Sens will want to move too. It sets a bad precedent. Melnyk is just cheap and has cash flows problems, the market can handle an NHL team.

Might also affect tv revenue, as well. Iirc, the Sens signed that deal with TSN not too long ago. A new owner would have to buy out that contract, along with also buying the CTC, and the baby Sens in Belleville...and who knows what else. I haven't looked too closely at the team in Belleville, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of contract to keep the team there for a number of years, considering they just did a lot of work on that arena.

A new owner might be better off int he long run to buy an expansion team when it comes up again, than to try an move an existing team like the Sens.

 

[coladin]

I have no fear whatsoever of the team potentially moving. None.

I do. Always have.

I think a lot of people, over the years, have misunderstood my intentions. I only care about having a team that I am crazy about , in my city. I was 18, in the Pius parking lot when we all looked at each other , stunned that we were getting an NHL team.

I don’t trust this egomaniac and I think he is building a case to move it. He won’t sell it. From what i hear, he will not even consider it. His first choice is to find a better market. If the fans still went , it may demonstrate that the market is strong in spite of horrible ownership. Apathy points to a bigger, more dangerous problem.

So, yeah, I may be a pain at times . But my heart is in the right place. I knew what those empty seats meant during the playoffs, and nothing has changed my perspective . In the deepest recesses of my brain, I can rationalize that the Chabot deal was not for us, it was for him to go to the BOG, state his case how he is doing all the right things and the media is running him out of town, ruining his business and needs to relocate.

You can all say that the chances of moving are next to none. I wish I were as secure as you all. This guy is a loose cannon, a spiteful person, and he is going to try band stick it to the city.

Florida has sweetheart deals, they survive as it is. Arizona has been propped up so many times.

If there is someone out there from the NHL who would say, no matter what, this team is not moving, then I don’t care if it is myself and my kids watching the team.

I like the players who try and win for us. I know smartasses say they are well paid, first class treatment etc., but these are all big kids and I think my point stands. Stone leaves and talks of the great fan support. Duchene talks about Nashville and their crazy fans. I know we are good fans too.

Duclair is blocking shots , guys are trying hard to win, and no one cares. So, it bothers me.

Leaf fans supported horrible ownership. Oilers too. I know Chicago didn’t, but it took a long time for them to stop supporting the Wirtz regime.

Anyways, not going to post in this thread anymore.

 

[BonkTastic]

The only fear I have is that if the only price that the BoG would be willing to approve a sale from an out-of-town buyer.

I don't think Melnyk will move the team himself.

Ask Jim Balsille how that worked out for him.

 

[Engineer]

Duclair is blocking shots , guys are trying hard to win, and no one cares.

His agent does. Duclair was one bad assignment away from the KHL. Let's not pretend fans are his motivation.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

I do. Always have.

I think a lot of people, over the years, have misunderstood my intentions. I only care about having a team that I am crazy about , in my city. I was 18, in the Pius parking lot when we all looked at each other , stunned that we were getting an NHL team.

I don’t trust this egomaniac and I think he is building a case to move it. He won’t sell it. From what i hear, he will not even consider it. His first choice is to find a better market. If the fans still went , it may demonstrate that the market is strong in spite of horrible ownership. Apathy points to a bigger, more dangerous problem.

So, yeah, I may be a pain at times . But my heart is in the right place. I knew what those empty seats meant during the playoffs, and nothing has changed my perspective . In the deepest recesses of my brain, I can rationalize that the Chabot deal was not for us, it was for him to go to the BOG, state his case how he is doing all the right things and the media is running him out of town, ruining his business and needs to relocate.

You can all say that the chances of moving are next to none. I wish I were as secure as you all. This guy is a loose cannon, a spiteful person, and he is going to try band stick it to the city.

Florida has sweetheart deals, they survive as it is. Arizona has been propped up so many times.

If there is someone out there from the NHL who would say, no matter what, this team is not moving, then I don’t care if it is myself and my kids watching the team.

I like the players who try and win for us. I know smartasses say they are well paid, first class treatment etc., but these are all big kids and I think my point stands. Stone leaves and talks of the great fan support. Duchene talks about Nashville and their crazy fans. I know we are good fans too.

Duclair is blocking shots , guys are trying hard to win, and no one cares. So, it bothers me.

Leaf fans supported horrible ownership. Oilers too. I know Chicago didn’t, but it took a long time for them to stop supporting the Wirtz regime.

Anyways, not going to post in this thread anymore.

Melnyk probably does not need BoG approval to relocate. Teams in other leagues with that bylaw have done it, so I'm not sure what he's waiting for.

The costs with relocation and his perception in other cities are probably way bigger barriers than the BoG.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I do. Always have.

I think a lot of people, over the years, have misunderstood my intentions. I only care about having a team that I am crazy about , in my city. I was 18, in the Pius parking lot when we all looked at each other , stunned that we were getting an NHL team.

I don’t trust this egomaniac and I think he is building a case to move it. He won’t sell it. From what i hear, he will not even consider it. His first choice is to find a better market. If the fans still went , it may demonstrate that the market is strong in spite of horrible ownership. Apathy points to a bigger, more dangerous problem.

So, yeah, I may be a pain at times . But my heart is in the right place. I knew what those empty seats meant during the playoffs, and nothing has changed my perspective . In the deepest recesses of my brain, I can rationalize that the Chabot deal was not for us, it was for him to go to the BOG, state his case how he is doing all the right things and the media is running him out of town, ruining his business and needs to relocate.

You can all say that the chances of moving are next to none. I wish I were as secure as you all. This guy is a loose cannon, a spiteful person, and he is going to try band stick it to the city.

Florida has sweetheart deals, they survive as it is. Arizona has been propped up so many times.

If there is someone out there from the NHL who would say, no matter what, this team is not moving, then I don’t care if it is myself and my kids watching the team.

I like the players who try and win for us. I know smartasses say they are well paid, first class treatment etc., but these are all big kids and I think my point stands. Stone leaves and talks of the great fan support. Duchene talks about Nashville and their crazy fans. I know we are good fans too.

Duclair is blocking shots , guys are trying hard to win, and no one cares. So, it bothers me.

Leaf fans supported horrible ownership. Oilers too. I know Chicago didn’t, but it took a long time for them to stop supporting the Wirtz regime.

Anyways, not going to post in this thread anymore.

Melnyk extending a contract to Chabot doesn't really prove anything to the BOG when he is cutting costs everywhere else. That doesn't show that he is doing the right thing. That shows he is trying to create a facade and I am pretty sure if fans can see through that bullshit than higher ups would as well.

He can try to prop up his position as much as he wants if his true intention is to move the team and has no desire to sell but given his track record I doubt he will have any leverage in doing so. Picking up the team and just moving them to another market is not cheap and we know how frugal Melnyk is.

Fans most definitely support the players but its not mandated to support the owner at the same time.

I think somtimes the way you convey your message rubs people the wrong way but I do think you are a true diehard fan. I honestly do. Fans come in all shapes and sizes. We all want the same thing in the end

 

[slamigo]

Ask Jim Balsille how that worked out for him.

I actually met Balsillie in the spring. Super nice guy. Would much rather have him owning the team than Melnyk. Assuming of course that he gave up any idea of moving the team.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

This whole "we're in a rebuild and people should expect to lose" narrative also coincidentally ignores WHY we're in a rebuild (because we sold off the players that could help us win now in the interests of saving a dollar.) I don't see anybody upset with the concept of a rebuild – I see fans upset with the way we got here. Fan unrest isn't a means to stick it to the players, it's a means to vote with our wallets. It's as close to a vote of non-confidence as we can give to the team's management. It sucks that players are caught in the middle, but we have no more direct way of making our frustrations known.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

This whole "we're in a rebuild and people should expect to lose" narrative also coincidentally ignores WHY we're in a rebuild (because we sold off the players that could help us win now in the interests of saving a dollar.) I don't see anybody upset with the concept of a rebuild – I see fans upset with the way we got here. Fan unrest isn't a means to stick it to the players, it's a means to vote with our wallets. It's as close to a vote of non-confidence as we can give to the team's management. It sucks that players are caught in the middle, but we have no more direct way of making our frustrations known.

If you look at Chicago, Pittsburgh, and Washington in their "rebuilding years", they still had top 6 veterans putting up 60-70 points playing with the rookies.

This rebuild resembles Edmonton's more than it does the others.

Now imagine if Edmonton had an owner that sold draft picks while spending less than the cap floor.

 

[Fandlauer]

Fans have transitioned from anger to apathy. Can't say I'm surprised.

 

[TheDebater]

Speaking of attendance, how realistic or rather, practical would the following suggestion be?:

Right now the Senators are in desperate need of help, and by help I infer that they are being held hostage by their owner and the market is obviously suffering judging by attendance numbers. No NHL team worth its salt should ever contain less than 15K fans at any home game. So with that I serve the following option. If the CTC is owned by Melnyk and he can choose to not include it in the sale of the team in order to hold the upper hand and continue his stranglehold on the city, how realistic would it be for a potential buyer to broker a deal with Hunt and co. to allow the Senators to play at TD arena (aka Landsdowne) temporarily while a new arena is built?

I understand the arena is small and does not hold much fans, but consider the following:

1. Instant hope from fans that a new owner is finally here
2. Demand for tickets will skyrocket as the supply will be limited.
3. Excitement for a new arena being built, potentially at Lebreton.
4. Playing one season full season in a small arena with higher ticket prices will drive up the demand once an 18k+ capacity arena finally opens.

The positive from this, is by having a smaller arena which will most likely be packed, it shifts focus off the ice from those who continuously bring up attendance issues with the Sens, by allowing that issue to die, the focus shifts back on the ice where the product is actually heading in a good direction, and with new ownership, they could potentially inject hope that "money will be spent" and this team instantly jumps a year forward in its rebuild.

 

[DJB]

Anyone have any actual numbers from the first couple games?

 

[jhutter]

Anyone have any actual numbers from the first couple games?

What do you mean by actual numbers? Paid tickets? Actual butts in seats? The official numbers were 15,135 and 9,204. Can safely assume that the butts in seats numbers are less than the official numbers. Ottawa Rising!

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[slamigo]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-senators-attendance-graphs-charts-1.5318022

 

[5ive4Fighting]

Alright.

1) Anyone who still thinks the team will be moved is just way out of touch with reality.
2) Potential buyers stand to make a fortune if LeBreton Flats is still on the table
3) The NHL won't let Melnyk sell at any price as it would/could devalue other franchises and make new franchises balk at the price the NHL is asking
4) Of course, Bettman/Daly won't condemn the owner publicly.
5) However, I'd strongly recommend them to shut up. Fans feel alienated by Melnyk, wouldn't be good to feel ignored by the league.
6) I don't think engaging Coladin is worth anyone's time.

I think it’s breathtakingly naive to think anybody other than Ottawa deeply cares if an NHL team is in Ottawa. Of course the team could be lost/moved.

 

[TheDebater]

I think it’s breathtakingly naive to think anybody other than Ottawa deeply cares if an NHL team is in Ottawa. Of course the team could be lost/moved.

You are entitled to your opinion however wrong it may be. The Senators are not some Arizona or Florida type insignificant team. There is history here and the rivalry it has built being jammed between the two biggest franchises in the NHL is good for the league.

As a Sens fan, setting personal bias aside, I would never want to see the Leafs or Habs for example forced to relocate because it takes the fun away from watching competitive hockey amongst rival fans. I would wager most Leafs and Habs fans would not really be happy if the Sens were no longer in Ottawa.

In fact, we should advocate bringing more candian teams to the NHL not less and I would hate to see another Canadian franchise relocate due to terrible ownership. The league realized their mistake moving Winnipeg the first time around, they should be careful in how they handle the current Senators situation.

 

[DJB]

What do you mean by actual numbers? Paid tickets? Actual butts in seats? The official numbers were 15,135 and 9,204. Can safely assume that the butts in seats numbers are less than the official numbers. Ottawa Rising!

Could you tell me where you got those numbers? That way i can follow along myself throughout the year

 

[jhutter]

Could you tell me where you got those numbers? That way i can follow along myself throughout the year

Go to www.nhl.com, then click on "scores" on the top left. Click "gamecenter" on the right for the game you're interested in. On the right hand side where it shows the video clips and stats, scroll to the very bottom of the page and you'll see a box that says "Official Game Reports". Click "event summary" and the attendance will be at the top first line under the date. Let me know if you have any issues. You can also do this on the mobile app as well. Figures are generally released 30 min or so after the game is finished.

This is what the sheet looks like: Event Summary

 

[BonkTastic]

I think it’s breathtakingly naive to think anybody other than Ottawa deeply cares if an NHL team is in Ottawa. Of course the team could be lost/moved.

A 40km wide asteroid COULD slam into the planet and destroy all life on earth. The chance of that happening during our lifetime is pretty damned small, though.

The chances of the Sens moving clearly aren't THAT remote, there's certainly a bit of hyperbole in my comparison (on purpose), but I'm exaggerating to make the point that just because a thing COULD happen, doesn't mean the chances of it happening are at all significant enough for us to even begin to worry about it.

There's so much context and evidence and precedence supporting the idea that we won't move that I can't take any argument about to seriously, to the point that I pretty much chalk it up to either unnecessary fear-mongering, or a complete ignorance of the context in which the league operates.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

All it takes is one US market doing the legwork to have an NHL team and a continued sag in attendance to make it an issue.

I'm not worried yet but I'm not of the opinion that relocation is very unlikely.

 

[BonkTastic]

All it takes is one US market doing the legwork to have an NHL team and a continued sag in attendance to make it an issue.

I think it would be incredibly, radically myopic of the league to identify Ottawa as a team in jeopardy - and a potential team where relocation is seen as the only solution to the ills of this market - when the root of most issues here is obvious and solvable... over other teams that have multiple decades of revolving ownership, an exhaustive number of measures taken to try and make hockey work within their markets, and a record of abject failure in almost all ventures to create a sustainable and competitive atmosphere.

I mean, maybe the BoG temporarily loses their mind and chooses Ottawa over any of the teams that have been PRIME relocation targets over the past decade, sure. It could happen. I just honestly don't see it.

If the league wants to relocate a team, it'll be one that they have lost all hope on rehabilitating it as a hockey market.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I think it would be incredibly, radically myopic of the league to identify Ottawa as a team in jeopardy, when the root of most issues here is obvious and solvable, over other teams that have multiple decades of revolving ownership, an exhaustive number of measures taken to try and make hockey work within their markets, and a record of abject failure in almost all ventures to create a sustainable and competitive atmosphere.

I agree with your outlook but TV money seems to be the holy grail on the business side of things.

Arizona was bailed out again and again in no small part due to its importance for TV coverage in the US.

If the bottom line is my main concern, if Ottawa isn't doing well and I have a US city with an arena and potential ownership, I have to look at it.

Now this is worst case scenario, I don't believe this is likely. I just don't think it is very unlikely. I am a cynical ***hole though

 

[BonkTastic]

I agree with your outlook but TV money seems to be the holy grail on the business side of things.

Arizona was bailed out again and again in no small part due to its importance for TV coverage in the US.

If the bottom line is my main concern, if Ottawa isn't doing well and I have a US city with an arena and potential ownership, I have to look at it.

Now this is worst case scenario, I don't believe this is likely. I just don't think it is very unlikely. I am a cynical ***hole though

I appreciate that you actually put thought into this position, and it actually makes sense.

I mean... I disagree with the conclusion, but at least that's just my subjective opinion, in regards to a good line of reasoning that can hold up to basic scrutiny, rather than chicken-little panicking.

Nice. I stand corrected on my previous statement.