All Encompassing Tyson Barrie Thread

[a mangy Meowth]

You go and look at the list of potential free agents in 2020, and let me know:

1) Which players you actually believe are going to leave their respective teams
2) Which of those players from that shortened list would be better than Tyson Barrie

I think it's a foolish practice to try and predict the future even 2 years from now. So much will change by then. Barrie might even learn how to play defense

 

[Tweaky]

I've got it. We leave him unprotected for the Baristas to take in the expansion draft in return for their first round pick 2020 (or whatever year they join).

 

[Piestany88]

Sorry, I should have phrased it as truths to me. I don't think at all that it's just as likely he gets re-signed. Given the return he would provide, the cap hit he would take up, his role on the team and the prospects in our system, it just makes logical sense that he will get moved; and the Avs would be a more successful team because of it, short and long-term.

Amen

 

[Cypher]

My stance is, and always has been, keep him and re-sign him. You don't trade Tyson Barrie. Sure the Avs haven't fared well with Newport clients, but I think a reasonable deal gets done.

 

[Piestany88]

You mean like pay him 8 million a year? Because that seems quite unpalatable to me.

And then on top of 8 mil , not have to play him 23 mins or #1 pp time

 

[dahrougem2]

I think it's a foolish practice to try and predict the future even 2 years from now. So much will change by then. Barrie might even learn how to play defense

The irony in this statement is priceless.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

The irony in this statement is priceless.

Is it? I'm simply trying to advocate keeping an open mind about moving him (and that at his current level of play, I wouldn't want to pay him 8M/yr). I think it's ridiculous to say there will be zero other options to spend cap space on. How is that a controversial statement?!

 

[Doughboy73]

Unless Sakic can make another Duchene's trade miracle, i dont think it would be wise to trade Barrie.
But if he must trade him at all cost , it will probably happend during the summer, not at the TDL when the team is in a playoff hunt.

 

[5280]

I’ve always leaned towards trading him sometime in the next year or so. I’m not sure I’ll be butt hurt either way, though. We either overpay a good player which it seems like we can do regarding the salary cap, or we trade him for a nice package.

 

[Patagonia]

I'd rather throw that money at a player like John Carlson.


Barrie, as a player, is a double edged sword. Despite the pretty numbers, he hurts us just as much (if not more) than he helps.

Carlson is an interesting argument as they would need to replace him. It was mentioned on the main board to send Barrie to the Caps for

Samsonov
2019 - 1st
2020 - 1st.

Maybe a deal can be made?

 

[dahrougem2]

Is it? I'm simply trying to advocate keeping an open mind about moving him (and that at his current level of play, I wouldn't want to pay him 8M/yr). I think it's ridiculous to say there will be zero other options to spend cap space on. How is that a controversial statement?!

Didn't say it was controversial.

 

[cgf]

Every contender has somebody on their team who's overpaid. If our overpaid guy is an elite offensive dman like Tyson, I'll be happy.

 

[Murzu]

Carlson is an interesting argument as they would need to replace him. It was mentioned on the main board to send Barrie to the Caps for

Samsonov
2019 - 1st
2020 - 1st.

Maybe a deal can be made?

If this was EASports you'd trade Barrie for Carlsons UFA rights and that package and sign Carlson to 7,5 x 7 deal.

This is not.

 

[JoemAvs]

Chiarelli won't be EDM GM for much longer so the time to strike is probably now IMO.

I am sick of discussing why or why he shouldn't be moved for now so Iam going to focus on what I would want for him.

Kings look to be in trouble.

I wonder if Vilardi and Cal Petersen are two guys that would be available in a package deal for Barrie (with other things included on both sides of course).

I know Pettersson has rightfully overtaken him when it comes to the current hype but I wouldn't be surprised if Vilardi turns into a better center down the line.

Still can't believe he dropped to #11.

That 2017 draft looks way better than I expected. At least for now.

 

[Patagonia]

Chiarelli won't be EDM GM for much longer so the time to strike is probably now IMO.

I am sick of discussing why or why he shouldn't be moved for now so Iam going to focus on what I would want for him.

Kings look to be in trouble.

I wonder if Vilardi and Cal Petersen are two guys that would be available in a package deal for Barrie (with other things included on both sides of course).

I know Pettersson has rightfully overtaken him when it comes to the current hype but I wouldn't be surprised if Vilardi turns into a better center down the line.

Still can't believe he dropped to #11.

That 2017 draft looks way better than I expected. At least for now.

I expected Vilardi to be the AVs Pick. Fell in the draft due to skating issues. Kings have few, if any prospects they would trade him.

 

[Avs71]

Counting from Barrie's first full season forward (2013/2014), summed in comparison to the whole league Barrie is:
-7th in Points/60 minutes
-8th in even strength scoring (has anywhere from 5 less games to 31 less games played than the players in front of him)
-13th in points per game
-15th in overall defenceman scoring

Counting from his best season forward(2014/2015):
7th in Points/60 minutes
-8th in even strength scoring
-9th in overall scoring
-11th in points per game

Counting Two seasons ago (2015/2016) forward:
-12th in P/60
-14th in Points per game
-16th in even strength scoring
-20th in overall scoring

They are very impressive numbers, and Barrie is most definitely a top-15 offensive defenceman in the league. If we are taking his whole career into account to this point, he is a top-10 offensive defenceman.

In Barrie's career year, he was 3th in even strength scoring by defencemen, and 4th in points/ 60.

When all is said and done, he is probably just outside being a top-5 even strength offensive defenceman, and top-10 offensive defenceman.

 

[Piestany88]

Counting from Barrie's first full season forward (2013/2014), summed in comparison to the whole league Barrie is:
-7th in Points/60 minutes
-8th in even strength scoring (has anywhere from 5 less games to 31 less games played than the players in front of him)
-13th in points per game
-15th in overall defenceman scoring

Counting from his best season forward(2014/2015):
7th in Points/60 minutes
-8th in even strength scoring
-9th in overall scoring
-11th in points per game

Counting Two seasons ago (2015/2016) forward:
-12th in P/60
-14th in Points per game
-16th in even strength scoring
-20th in overall scoring

They are very impressive numbers, and Barrie is most definitely a top-15 offensive defenceman in the league. If we are taking his whole career into account to this point, he is a top-10 offensive defenceman.

In Barrie's career year, he was 3th in even strength scoring by defencemen, and 4th in points/ 60.

When all is said and done, he is probably just outside being a top-5 even strength offensive defenceman, and top-10 offensive defenceman.

Hopefully all that will help us get a bigger return

 

[Freaky Styley]

Lets put it this way. In 2.5 years from now you could have a core team that looks like this:



Landy(5.5M) - Mack(6.3M) - Rantanen(7.0M)
Kerfoot(5.0M) - Jost(0.9M) - Compher(5.0M)
Nieto(1.5M) - Soda(4.75M) - Comeau(2.5M)


Zadorov(5.5M) - EJ(6.0M)
Girard(0.9M) - Barrie(7.5M)
Nemeth(2.0M) - Makar(1.0M)




That team. With very generous 5.0M contracts given to both Kerfoot and Compher(Basically assuming both guys turn into regular ~55 point players next year for us and we opt not to give them a bridge deal and just go straight to long term), another generous offer of 5.5M to Zadorov, and what people consider to be to much at 7.0M for Rantanen.



That's a total of 61.35M. That would STILL leave us with almost 25M(And possibly more by the time 2020 summer comes along when Barrie is actually a UFA) in space to sign 4 4th line level players(And average of ~1M in salary each), a #7 Dman(Again another 1M in salary), and a starting and backup goalie(Combined should be less then 8M).



In other words, even with all of our upcoming RFAs reaching the high end spectrum of expectancy over the next 2 years and earning big deals, and still carrying Soda's over market value contract, AND giving Comeau perhaps more then he deserves. We would still be looking at over 10M in additional cap space, which can be used for the upcoming deals Jost, Makar, and Girard would get.

And then by the time Mack is ready for his next deal 3 years after that, Soda and his contract will be off the books, EJ, and his 6M will be off the books, and the Cap is likely up an additional 5M or more for more room to spend.




Like I said. People dont realize the ridiculous amount of cap space we have now and for the next 5 years really. The market for Dmen like Barrie hasn't been set yet under the new increased cap but it's coming in the next couple of years. John Carlson and his new deal will a the first big movement in that direction, but others will bring it along as well.


By the time Barrie is a UFA in 2020, High end #3 Dmen like him will all be making 7M+. Guaranteed.


EDIT: And I also just remembered Soda's contract actually expires the same year Barries deal does. So in actuality we wont even have an overpaid 3C to deal with at that point either. Instead our 3C should be making more like 2.5M-3M giving us an additional 2M in cap space or so, that same 2M that could be applied directly to Barrie's raise.

He's one of the best Dmen in the league at producing offense from the back end. One of the best first passers and an offensive driver at 5 on 5.


Yes, you pay him 7M+ and you do so happily. It's amazing how much people fail to understand how little of a cap hit 7M is going to be in 2 years time when the NHL salary cap is 85M.





See above.

I guess we just have different opinions of what makes a successful team. With a player like Girard already providing what Barrie does in Barrie's absence, as a 19 year old, and with much more defensive awareness and acumen IMO then you don't need Barrie. Where do I want to spend that money? I'd rather target another high end forward in a Barrie trade and give it to him. I'm also not saying just get rid of Barrie and run with the D without him, I'd much rather give that type of money to a D man like Trouba or something in that mold. I have no problem with paying a high-end #3 $7M+, I just don't want that guy to be Barrie.

And this is nothing against Tyson, I have been a big fan of his since we drafted him. But I prefer my defender's biggest strength to defend, and there are too many times that he guys trapped or outmuscled in his zone to lead to chances. Like many other posters have said, he produces offense but he also creates it for the opposition. And when we have guys like Girard already in the lineup and more on the way (and don't give me that 'what if Makar and Timmins don't pan out' crap. I get there's a level of risk with any prospect but I've watched hockey long enough to know at least one of these guys will hit barring any major injury or screw up by the Avs) I don't see a reason to keep Tyson around. You can only have so many undersized offensive defenseman in the lineup, and Barrie is going to be the odd man out sooner or later.

I guess my main point is that you don't NEED a top 5 offensive defenseman to win the Cup, as long as there are a few guys throughout the lineup that can provide that dimension. If Barrie gets hurt, we're not missing much. If Mack gets hurt, we are screwed offensively. You are relying way too heavily on production from Compher, Jost and Kerfoot on that 2nd line that I'm not confident will be a steady force. But if you can add another high end forward to insulate Mack, you do it.

 

[Patagonia]

Interestingly when the Duchene trade rumours developed last season, some of you wanted to find a solution to keep him. Core asset, team developed player, all star, childhood team, etc.

So after the trade, we never want him back, checked out, over rated, disruption, lacked leadership etc. The returning package of players and picks made the loss much more palatable.

Barrie and his possible return? It will complete the rebuild and accelerate their march to a Cup. Package for the trade could soften his loss.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I guess we just have different opinions of what makes a successful team. With a player like Girard already providing what Barrie does in Barrie's absence, as a 19 year old, and with much more defensive awareness and acumen IMO then you don't need Barrie. Where do I want to spend that money? I'd rather target another high end forward in a Barrie trade and give it to him. I'm also not saying just get rid of Barrie and run with the D without him, I'd much rather give that type of money to a D man like Trouba or something in that mold. I have no problem with paying a high-end #3 $7M+, I just don't want that guy to be Barrie.

Well that's just not true at all. Not even close for that matter. And if that's what you and others are thinking, you guys need to watch the games a lot more closely.


Girard isn't doing half of what Barrie was providing for us before the injuries. For starters Girard is only effective at producing offense on the PP right now. At even strength he's not producing points at all. While Barrie was a beast at 5 on 5.



Girard is nothing more then a PP specialist for us right now.

 

[Freaky Styley]

Well that's just not true at all. Not even close for that matter. And if that's what you and others are thinking, you guys need to watch the games a lot more closely.


Girard isn't doing half of what Barrie was providing for us before the injuries. For starters Girard is only effective at producing offense on the PP right now. At even strength he's not producing points at all. While Barrie was a beast at 5 on 5.



Girard is nothing more then a PP specialist for us right now.

Well he's running the 1st PP much better than Barrie was. I think a lot of that has to do with him being left handed, but that's beside the point.

Sure, he might not be putting up as many points 5-on-5, but he's providing the same puck-moving, skating and zone exit and entries that Barrie would provide. He's also only 19, which makes it even more impressive. Again, through this whole discussion I am not advocating for trading Barrie now or this year, but I think he should be dealt after next season. By then I'm sure Girard will be producing more at 5-on-5 and it will be even more clear that Barrie's talents are more of a luxury than a need on this team.

 

[Balthazar]

Well that's just not true at all. Not even close for that matter. And if that's what you and others are thinking, you guys need to watch the games a lot more closely.


Girard isn't doing half of what Barrie was providing for us before the injuries. For starters Girard is only effective at producing offense on the PP right now. At even strength he's not producing points at all. While Barrie was a beast at 5 on 5.



Girard is nothing more then a PP specialist for us right now.

While it's true that Girard is only producing offensively on the PP, he's also much better in the D zone than Barrie ever was. To say that he's nothing more than a PP specialist is not true.

 

[Iceberg]

We can have both, Barrie and Girard, you know? If Bednar plays it right we can get Girard's PP prodution plus Barrie's 5v5.

How about that?

 

[EdAVSfan]

We can have both, Barrie and Girard, you know? If Bednar plays it right we can get Girard's PP prodution plus Barrie's 5v5.

How about that?

Can’t happen.

I’m not sure why not, but it seems like if we have 1 dman who can provide offence, that’s all we want or need. Never mind that the two dmen can provide offence in two different ways. Let Barrie run the 2nd PP, let Girard run the first.
And since Girard is “better” defensively, give Barrie a whole bunch of offensive zone starts so that we keep scoring 5 on 5.

Wouldn’t it be nice to have 3 really good pairings?

I know I’d like that.

 

[Piestany88]

I guess we just have different opinions of what makes a successful team. With a player like Girard already providing what Barrie does in Barrie's absence, as a 19 year old, and with much more defensive awareness and acumen IMO then you don't need Barrie. Where do I want to spend that money? I'd rather target another high end forward in a Barrie trade and give it to him. I'm also not saying just get rid of Barrie and run with the D without him, I'd much rather give that type of money to a D man like Trouba or something in that mold. I have no problem with paying a high-end #3 $7M+, I just don't want that guy to be Barrie.

And this is nothing against Tyson, I have been a big fan of his since we drafted him. But I prefer my defender's biggest strength to defend, and there are too many times that he guys trapped or outmuscled in his zone to lead to chances. Like many other posters have said, he produces offense but he also creates it for the opposition. And when we have guys like Girard already in the lineup and more on the way (and don't give me that 'what if Makar and Timmins don't pan out' crap. I get there's a level of risk with any prospect but I've watched hockey long enough to know at least one of these guys will hit barring any major injury or screw up by the Avs) I don't see a reason to keep Tyson around. You can only have so many undersized offensive defenseman in the lineup, and Barrie is going to be the odd man out sooner or later.

I guess my main point is that you don't NEED a top 5 offensive defenseman to win the Cup, as long as there are a few guys throughout the lineup that can provide that dimension. If Barrie gets hurt, we're not missing much. If Mack gets hurt, we are screwed offensively. You are relying way too heavily on production from Compher, Jost and Kerfoot on that 2nd line that I'm not confident will be a steady force. But if you can add another high end forward to insulate Mack, you do it.

That's the thing , it's nothing against Barrie and I know he has fans but the opportunity to capatilise on him in a trade to take this team to a perennial playoff team that can grow together and be a contender is there.
I agree not now unless we can't refuse the offer but next year is prime time .
I'd be willing to bet Barrie senses this himself ,. The plus side of things is he will take the hometown discount on an up and coming team with his buddy . In reality Makar is gonna be push in hard very soon and will need top 4 ice time . I'm 70%/30% he signs after this year