All Encompassing Tyson Barrie Thread

[Foppberg]

Basically every thread on here gets hijacked with T Boobs talk, so hopefully this'll help.

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[Foppa Frossa]

Plot twist: this thread is locked

 

[Freaky Styley]

Just came here to say we can have fun and talk about potential deals in here or whether to keep him or not, but I see two clear truths in this situation:

1. The Avs WILL trade Tyson Barrie, due to the salary cap and his role being filled internally.
2. This trade won't occur until the 2019 off-season, or at earliest, the trade deadline that year. There is simply no reason to unless they get absolutely blown away with an offer.

So yeah, discuss potential deals or argue that we should keep him but all this talk is extremely premature and much will change league-wide before any of this comes to fruition. I mean, there's a good chance an expansion draft could happen before (or another reason) he is dealt. So everyone needs to calm down.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Just came here to say we can have fun and talk about potential deals in here or whether to keep him or not, but I see two clear truths in this situation:

1. The Avs WILL trade Tyson Barrie, due to the salary cap and his role being filled internally.
2. This trade won't occur until the 2019 off-season, or at earliest, the trade deadline that year. There is simply no reason to unless they get absolutely blown away with an offer.

So yeah, discuss potential deals or argue that we should keep him but all this talk is extremely premature and much will change league-wide before any of this comes to fruition. I mean, there's a good chance an expansion draft could happen before (or another reason) he is dealt. So everyone needs to calm down.

The issue some of us have is claims like this. How do you know that is going to happen? There’s just as likely a chance he gets re-signed as he gets traded. All these “facts” being thrown around that aren’t actually facts. I’m down to have a rational conversation about the future Barrie has on this team, but when people throw around these scenarios that could happen as fact, it gets really old really fast.

 

[Freaky Styley]

The issue some of us have is claims like this. How do you know that is going to happen? There’s just as likely a chance he gets re-signed as he gets traded. All these “facts” being thrown around that aren’t actually facts. I’m down to have a rational conversation about the future Barrie has on this team, but when people throw around these scenarios that could happen as fact, it gets really old really fast.

Sorry, I should have phrased it as truths to me. I don't think at all that it's just as likely he gets re-signed. Given the return he would provide, the cap hit he would take up, his role on the team and the prospects in our system, it just makes logical sense that he will get moved; and the Avs would be a more successful team because of it, short and long-term.

 

[tigervixxxen]

And the topic is going to stay in this thread, right? You'll see what you guys have set yourselves up for.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Sorry, I should have phrased it as truths to me. I don't think at all that it's just as likely he gets re-signed. Given the return he would provide, the cap hit he would take up, his role on the team and the prospects in our system, it just makes logical sense that he will get moved; and the Avs would be a more successful team because of it, short and long-term.

I completely understand why he could and would get traded, that logic absolutely makes sense. But like someone said in the other thread, there’s so many reasons to keep him or wait out a trade for Barrie. Maybe his value around the league sucks and trading him isn’t worth it, maybe he’s an insane playoff performer, maybe Makar, Timmins, and Meloche all suck at the NHL level, maybe he wants to stay and sign a reasonable deal so he can play with his boy Mack.

But like I said I can see the sentiment for wanting to trade him and why it makes sense. I just find it weird how we’re always complaining about the lack of quality on this team(especially on D) and then instead of wanting to try and keep our second best defenseman everyone wants to get rid of him. Stock up on the good defenseman, if we get too many good dmen that’s a great problem to have and I think that’s something we should be able to manage pretty easily. Or if we need/have to trade him, but all this it has to happen by X time and it’s clear to everyone he’s gonna be traded or it’d be dumb not to trade him is just ridiculous.

 

[Foppberg]

And the topic is going to stay in this thread, right? You'll see what you guys have set yourselves up for.

Of course. Anything but would shock me.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Keep him until you cant afford to keep him.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I'll outline my position here and then try to be done with it. There's no use in engaging in the back and forth daily especially to get it twisted most of the time.

1. Contract. It's true nobody knows what he's going to ask for or how willing Barrie is in taking a discount/working with the team. I can see the obvious factors that he's represented by Newport and even if they aren't the evil they've been in the past with respect to others they tend to quite like market value and getting paid for future performance. It's tough to even see market value and what the Avs are willing to pay lining up. The MacKinnon cap might not be a thing but they aren't going to break their salary structure on Barrie. If they've had a wildly different conversation about this internally and are willing to go into that echelon to pay him then this is a different consideration. I would still ponder if the right move is to pay him but it would frame things different.

2. Timing. It all has to do with what the offer is and that's something none of us are privy to. Moving Barrie now would need to at least bring back a piece that helps now. Getting this done before Barrie enters rental territory also ensures that the return wouldn't be all futures and this wouldn't drag out forever to the inevitable end. I understand the point of not being too hasty on this but again depends on the offers. There's nothing about where the Avs are now that would give me pause on a good offer (and not talking holy cow level, anyone can get moved for that).

3. Replacements. Maybe the biggest point of difference here but has nothing to do with Timmins, Makar or any other future or present prospect. I completely understand that one can't count on them to take on Barrie's role now if ever. I don't think of prospects as slotting into specific roles or lineup spots either, if they are good enough there will be room somewhere. The replacement convo centers more around can their internal options right now reasonably fill what Barrie does? No one player can fill his shoes entirely but if you combine what Girard can do in some of the offensive situations and what Zadorov has done defensively with the greater responsibility plus that Nemeth and Barberio can eat a few more minutes I'm not sure the loss of Barrie right now is felt too great. I understand it's impossible and unfair to compare a guy with 35 career NHL games to one with 10x the amount but Girard picking up 7 points in 8 games of Barrie's absence in the situations in which Barrie would be in has to at least open minds a little.

4. Performance. This is the point that seems to miss in most of the discussions. Having Barrie in the lineup isn't 100% positive hockey euphoria all the time. I certainly would rather see Barrie in the lineup over Lindholm but when he's in he's going to take on a large role. There are pluses and minuses with Barrie taking up a lot of minutes. He's not the most intelligent defender. His CA/60 is the highest of the D core outside of Lindholm and Nemeth, in fact Nemeth has been better away from Barrie in this stretch. It might not benefit the team to give PP1 straight back to him either. This is not the Barrie sucks and the team is winning because of him gone point, it's just asking to evaluate what he brings to the table and considering the bad with the good. The 218 career points is the good and there is no dismissal of that.

 

[Avs71]

Very well put, TV. Hit the nail on the head with respect to why it possibly makes sense to move Barrie, and why some posters here have been bringing it up. Not that I expect for the response to be met by much more than, “Trade Barrie +2nd for prospect, lol, because Makar!”

If Barrie doesn’t expect to be the highest paid player on the team, then I’m happy to see him re-sign in two years. I don’t think he needs to be a 23 minute a night defenceman, 1st PP unit, and go to guy in every situation though. I think we’ve seen guys like Girard can make an impact too, given the chance.

I am excited to see Barrie return. He was pretty much a point per game before he got hurt, and with a weaker forward group, it would be nice to see Bednar give Barrie a long leash to jump in the play and score some goals.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Avs should do everything they can to keep him. And only if that fails should we look to trade him. Simple as that.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Avs should do everything they can to keep him.

You mean like pay him 8 million a year? Because that seems quite unpalatable to me.

 

[Freaky Styley]

Avs should do everything they can to keep him. And only if that fails should we look to trade him. Simple as that.

Do you care to explain why you feel so strongly on the topic? Much like I don't think it makes sense to pay Subban $9M+ or Price $10m+ it won't make sense to pay Barrie what he will demand on the open market. Like TV pointed out if he wants to take a discount great, but signs don't point toward that. anything over 7M is way too much for a guy that will never be a #1 Dman.

 

[Avs71]

It’s not even that he has to take a discount. For a player like him you obviously give them market value if that keeps them around. It is the fear that he is going to want something absurd.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Do you care to explain why you feel so strongly on the topic? Much like I don't think it makes sense to pay Subban $9M+ or Price $10m+ it won't make sense to pay Barrie what he will demand on the open market. Like TV pointed out if he wants to take a discount great, but signs don't point toward that. anything over 7M is way too much for a guy that will never be a #1 Dman.

There’s a big difference between paying Subban $9M a year vs paying Barrie $7.5-8M a year. Subban is barely overpaid of at all really.

And there’s plenty of reasons to keep Barrie. He’s a great locker room guy, he’s one of the most elite puck moving dmen in the league, etc. Now I don’t think we should massively overpay to keep him, but it would make sense to try pretty hard to keep him.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I'll outline my position here and then try to be done with it. There's no use in engaging in the back and forth daily especially to get it twisted most of the time.

1. Contract. It's true nobody knows what he's going to ask for or how willing Barrie is in taking a discount/working with the team. I can see the obvious factors that he's represented by Newport and even if they aren't the evil they've been in the past with respect to others they tend to quite like market value and getting paid for future performance. It's tough to even see market value and what the Avs are willing to pay lining up. The MacKinnon cap might not be a thing but they aren't going to break their salary structure on Barrie. If they've had a wildly different conversation about this internally and are willing to go into that echelon to pay him then this is a different consideration. I would still ponder if the right move is to pay him but it would frame things different.

Agree with your post but especially with the bold. Also Sakic is pretty adamant in saying he no longer wants to trade for future for the longer he waits the harder it becomes to get quality NHL players for him. With that being said I don't think he should be in a rush to trade him but TDLs this year and next year would be the worst time to accomplish that.

One more thing people forget about his next contract: Barrie will certainly insist on at least a mod-NTC which will be a big deal for Sakic I think.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Do you care to explain why you feel so strongly on the topic? Much like I don't think it makes sense to pay Subban $9M+ or Price $10m+ it won't make sense to pay Barrie what he will demand on the open market. Like TV pointed out if he wants to take a discount great, but signs don't point toward that. anything over 7M is way too much for a guy that will never be a #1 Dman.

He's one of the best Dmen in the league at producing offense from the back end. One of the best first passers and an offensive driver at 5 on 5.


Yes, you pay him 7M+ and you do so happily. It's amazing how much people fail to understand how little of a cap hit 7M is going to be in 2 years time when the NHL salary cap is 85M.

You mean like pay him 8 million a year? Because that seems quite unpalatable to me.

See above.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Lets put it this way. In 2.5 years from now you could have a core team that looks like this:



Landy(5.5M) - Mack(6.3M) - Rantanen(7.0M)
Kerfoot(5.0M) - Jost(0.9M) - Compher(5.0M)
Nieto(1.5M) - Soda(4.75M) - Comeau(2.5M)


Zadorov(5.5M) - EJ(6.0M)
Girard(0.9M) - Barrie(7.5M)
Nemeth(2.0M) - Makar(1.0M)




That team. With very generous 5.0M contracts given to both Kerfoot and Compher(Basically assuming both guys turn into regular ~55 point players next year for us and we opt not to give them a bridge deal and just go straight to long term), another generous offer of 5.5M to Zadorov, and what people consider to be to much at 7.0M for Rantanen.



That's a total of 61.35M. That would STILL leave us with almost 25M(And possibly more by the time 2020 summer comes along when Barrie is actually a UFA) in space to sign 4 4th line level players(And average of ~1M in salary each), a #7 Dman(Again another 1M in salary), and a starting and backup goalie(Combined should be less then 8M).



In other words, even with all of our upcoming RFAs reaching the high end spectrum of expectancy over the next 2 years and earning big deals, and still carrying Soda's over market value contract, AND giving Comeau perhaps more then he deserves. We would still be looking at over 10M in additional cap space, which can be used for the upcoming deals Jost, Makar, and Girard would get.

And then by the time Mack is ready for his next deal 3 years after that, Soda and his contract will be off the books, EJ, and his 6M will be off the books, and the Cap is likely up an additional 5M or more for more room to spend.




Like I said. People dont realize the ridiculous amount of cap space we have now and for the next 5 years really. The market for Dmen like Barrie hasn't been set yet under the new increased cap but it's coming in the next couple of years. John Carlson and his new deal will a the first big movement in that direction, but others will bring it along as well.


By the time Barrie is a UFA in 2020, High end #3 Dmen like him will all be making 7M+. Guaranteed.


EDIT: And I also just remembered Soda's contract actually expires the same year Barries deal does. So in actuality we wont even have an overpaid 3C to deal with at that point either. Instead our 3C should be making more like 2.5M-3M giving us an additional 2M in cap space or so, that same 2M that could be applied directly to Barrie's raise.

 

[Freudian]

He's 25th on TSNs deadline trade bait list but it seems more for old times sake than based on anything substantive.

 

[dahrougem2]

Lets put it this way. In 2.5 years from now you could have a core team that looks like this:



Landy(5.5M) - Mack(6.3M) - Rantanen(7.0M)
Kerfoot(5.0M) - Jost(0.9M) - Compher(5.0M)
Nieto(1.5M) - Soda(4.75M) - Comeau(2.5M)


Zadorov(5.5M) - EJ(6.0M)
Girard(0.9M) - Barrie(7.5M)
Nemeth(2.0M) - Makar(1.0M)




That team. With very generous 5.0M contracts given to both Kerfoot and Compher(Basically assuming both guys turn into regular ~55 point players next year for us and we opt not to give them a bridge deal and just go straight to long term), another generous offer of 5.5M to Zadorov, and what people consider to be to much at 7.0M for Rantanen.



That's a total of 61.35M. That would STILL leave us with almost 25M(And possibly more by the time 2020 summer comes along when Barrie is actually a UFA) in space to sign 4 4th line level players(And average of ~1M in salary each), a #7 Dman(Again another 1M in salary), and a starting and backup goalie(Combined should be less then 8M).



In other words, even with all of our upcoming RFAs reaching the high end spectrum of expectancy over the next 2 years and earning big deals, and still carrying Soda's over market value contract, AND giving Comeau perhaps more then he deserves. We would still be looking at over 10M in additional cap space, which can be used for the upcoming deals Jost, Makar, and Girard would get.

And then by the time Mack is ready for his next deal 3 years after that, Soda and his contract will be off the books, EJ, and his 6M will be off the books, and the Cap is likely up an additional 5M or more for more room to spend.




Like I said. People dont realize the ridiculous amount of cap space we have now and for the next 5 years really. The market for Dmen like Barrie hasn't been set yet under the new increased cap but it's coming in the next couple of years. John Carlson and his new deal will a the first big movement in that direction, but others will bring it along as well.


By the time Barrie is a UFA in 2020, High end #3 Dmen like him will all be making 7M+. Guaranteed.


EDIT: And I also just remembered Soda's contract actually expires the same year Barries deal does. So in actuality we wont even have an overpaid 3C to deal with at that point either. Instead our 3C should be making more like 2.5M-3M giving us an additional 2M in cap space or so, that same 2M that could be applied directly to Barrie's raise.

This post can't be liked enough.

The question I have to the people claiming Barrie will be making too much money is this: where else do you want to spend the money? If you're not going to give it to Barrie, who are you going to give it to? Or do you want to save for a rainy day?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Barrie is on the ice for more action in his own end than in the offensive end. He's on the ice for FAR MORE high danger chances in his own end than in the offensive end.

Tyson Barrie does not "drive" offense. He produces it. im not saying that like it's a bad thing. Production is beyond important. But there's many risks associated with him. He's a high risk, high reward player. And when you're insulated with more all round support those types of players become more valuable. He serves a major purpose on this team right now and again, I can not explain enough how important production is. People get obsessed with shit stats, but finding the back of the net is what wins games. It's why we continuously call Barrie elite offensively. He's exactly that and it can't be said enough.

On trading Tyson. I don't want to trade him. I'd like to lock him up long term. But there's certainly fear in him walking or demanding too much. There's a possibility of him also being replaceable by what we have internally. We already have a few defenseman who do a better job of getting the puck to our forwards than Barrie and almost everyone on the team is better defensively. This isn't the Avalanche of old where we need Barrie to generate and finish plays. It's a unit and we can count on our forwards more. Barrie is absolutely magical when he gets the puck. He simply creates offense. But our forwards are capable of doing this more than ever. It doesn't make Barrie anywhere near redundant but it gives the rest of the d core a better opportunity to contribute to team offense and somewhat replace what Barrie brings if we did move on. We also have some prospects but I won't put any of that pressure on them until they're proven.

I don't think a decision needs to be made on this right now or even in the near future but if a 1 for 1 or Barrie + for a star forward presents itself that helps this team I'm completely on board. I'm talking Mark Stone, Draisaitl type players that likely aren't attainable.

Barrie doesn't need to be traded. But it's not horrible to think that it might make sense at some point. To those of you who are 100% on one side or the other, get over yourselves. You don't know the answer to everything like you're all pretending. There's reasons for and against each argument.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

I'd rather throw that money at a player like John Carlson.


Barrie, as a player, is a double edged sword. Despite the pretty numbers, he hurts us just as much (if not more) than he helps.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

This post can't be liked enough.

The question I have to the people claiming Barrie will be making too much money is this: where else do you want to spend the money? If you're not going to give it to Barrie, who are you going to give it to? Or do you want to save for a rainy day?

Yeah there couldn't possibly be other valuable players around the league that we could spend the money on. Like multiple players. That would be preposterous!

 

[dahrougem2]

Yeah there couldn't possibly be other valuable players around the league that we could spend the money on. Like multiple players. That would be preposterous!

You go and look at the list of potential free agents in 2020, and let me know:

1) Which players you actually believe are going to leave their respective teams
2) Which of those players from that shortened list would be better than Tyson Barrie