Injury Report: All-encompassing Injury thread 2016-17

[hyduK]

From this Hockey News article. The bad news is he's never going to play at even a decent level again. He's pretty much toast at this point. I know people will want to sugar coat it and say Kronwall really doesn't need to participate in training camp. That is whistling past the graveyard, Kronwall is for all intents and purposes done as a useful hockey player. 35 year old guys with bum knees don't magically get better. We've seen it time and time again with older guys basically being incapable of playing hockey at a high level once one or both of their knees are shot.

So when does he retire, and Z for that matter?

I ask this because I was pretty annoyed when we wasted all that Datsyuk cap space on mediocre players that might help us squeak into the playoffs but will handcuff us cap-wise long term.

But maybe Kenny thinks we're about to get a bunch more space next summer...

 

[Frk It]

So when does he retire, and Z for that matter?

I ask this because I was pretty annoyed when we wasted all that Datsyuk cap space on mediocre players that might help us squeak into the playoffs but will handcuff us cap-wise long term.

But maybe Kenny thinks we're about to get a bunch more space next summer...

If Kronwall retires, we don't get any cap relief because of recapture. Same thing with Zetterberg.

Read here: http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/20...re-penalties-zetterberg-kronwall-and-franzens

 

[MTU hockey]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but is there any kind of limit on the amount of players you can have on LTIR? I'm curious because it looks as though Franzen, Ericsson, Z, and Kronner could all end up there at some point in the next few seasons

 

[Winger98]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but is there any kind of limit on the amount of players you can have on LTIR? I'm curious because it looks as though Franzen, Ericsson, Z, and Kronner could all end up there at some point in the next few seasons

Okay, this is just how I understand it, so it's probably wrong.

First, LTIR isn't in effect during the offseason and you can still exceed the cap by only 10% over the summer.Then, because of how the cap is set up, teams first have to get below the cap on the first day of the season before assigning anyone to LTIR. So, if the cap is $70m and we've spent $77m, then we have to clear $7m off our cap before we do anything the first day of the season.

So there comes a point where you're going to have too much salary to clear to really be workable on the first day of the season, and you're not going to be able to sign/trade for good enough players without wiping out your assets to take advantage of the LTIR space during the regular season. Honestly, if Ericsson, for example, finds he just can't play effective hockey any more and he won't retire, our best option might be to just buy him out and eat the lower cap hit for a few more years.

 

[hyduK]

If Kronwall retires, we don't get any cap relief because of recapture. Same thing with Zetterberg.

Read here: http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/20...re-penalties-zetterberg-kronwall-and-franzens

Bah, right. Well, we're screwed.

 

[Frk It]

Okay, this is just how I understand it, so it's probably wrong.

First, LTIR isn't in effect during the offseason and you can still exceed the cap by only 10% over the summer.Then, because of how the cap is set up, teams first have to get below the cap on the first day of the season before assigning anyone to LTIR. So, if the cap is $70m and we've spent $77m, then we have to clear $7m off our cap before we do anything the first day of the season.

So there comes a point where you're going to have too much salary to clear to really be workable on the first day of the season, and you're not going to be able to sign/trade for good enough players without wiping out your assets to take advantage of the LTIR space during the regular season. Honestly, if Ericsson, for example, finds he just can't play effective hockey any more and he won't retire, our best option might be to just buy him out and eat the lower cap hit for a few more years.

I'm not crystal clear on LTIR myself, but here are some good resources:

-- https://www.capfriendly.com/ltir-faq

-- http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/20...capture-strategy-ltir-loophole-has-its-limits

-- http://theleafsnation.com/2016/5/7/...and-the-leafs-need-to-be-cautious-in-using-it

 

[Bench]

So the Wings could potentially be forced into buyouts on injured players to somehow navigate the off-season when LTIR players count on the cap?

This could get very silly.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

So the Wings could potentially be forced into buyouts on injured players to somehow navigate the off-season when LTIR players count on the cap?

This could get very silly.

Well it wouldn't be that silly if the Wings had any cap space...

But they don't. At all.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

So the Wings could potentially be forced into buyouts on injured players to somehow navigate the off-season when LTIR players count on the cap?

This could get very silly.

Can you buyout injured players?

I remember that prevented the from buying out Sammy some years ago. But don't know if that was for the compliance buyouts or all buyouts.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Define "decent level".

Last year he was not decent. I think everyone who follows this team can pretty much tell you that. He's never going to play any better than he did last year. In fact he's probably going to deteriorate rapidly.

 

[Mijatovic]

Well at least it looks like Pulkinnen healed and is ready to go for TC. He really needs the TC to show his value (if he has any) to have a hope of making the team.

 

[Winger98]

I'm not crystal clear on LTIR myself, but here are some good resources:

-- https://www.capfriendly.com/ltir-faq

-- http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/20...capture-strategy-ltir-loophole-has-its-limits

-- http://theleafsnation.com/2016/5/7/...and-the-leafs-need-to-be-cautious-in-using-it

I hate feeling like I need to know at least some of this stuff to talk about hockey any more. At the same time I really can get behind how it levels the field a bit and forces teams to at least field competitive clubs by not tanking their payrolls. At least this system isn't as convoluted as the NBA's.

So the Wings could potentially be forced into buyouts on injured players to somehow navigate the off-season when LTIR players count on the cap?

This could get very silly.

This is one of the ways how contracts like the one to Helm will kill teams. I know people are going to come back with how could any GM see having three or four guys on LTIRetirement, but Holland knew Ericsson had hip issues, he knew Kronwall had knee issues, he knew Franzen wasn't coming back.

People are going to get tired of hearing it but take Helm away and a lot of our cap problems go with him. And it's not like he's some irreplaceable piece on a Cup team.

 

[Henkka]

If we have to LTIR more of our big caphit players that means the replacements are gonna come from Grand Rapids. Mantha, Bertuzzi, Russo etc.

Isn't that what everybody would love to see?

I don't buy that WIIM doomsday article at all. Prospects are always the final insurance policy. If you don't have prospects, then it becomes a problem. But everybody kind of has.

 

[Wood Stick]

So the Wings could potentially be forced into buyouts on injured players to somehow navigate the off-season when LTIR players count on the cap?

This could get very silly.

I think you could trade picks or something to Vegas to take a LTIR player to be honest.


Niklas Kronwall can likely stiill do a solid job on the third pairing. Has a very high IQ and i is not overly physical. Put up with somebody mobile and you're good. Sadly, there's not a lot of that. Danny DeKeyser is a great skater but is needed on the top pair- Smithy and Greener are the only other above average skaters on this roster sadly and they're kind of boneheads.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Detroit isn't trading Kronwall.

I mean you just have to look at the way the organization handled Cleary to realize that Kronwall and every other long tenured vet is retiring a red wing.

 

[Winger98]

If we have to LTIR more of our big caphit players that means the replacements are gonna come from Grand Rapids. Mantha, Bertuzzi, Russo etc.

Isn't that what everybody would love to see?

I don't buy that WIIM doomsday article at all. Prospects are always the final insurance policy. If you don't have prospects, then it becomes a problem. But everybody kind of has.

It also means we don't leave any room in our cap to pursue actual upgrades in the offseason or through trades.

What the LTIR issue will likely boil down to is moving Howard out of town before next fall at nearly any cost.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Detroit isn't trading Kronwall.

I mean you just have to look at the way the organization handled Cleary to realize that Kronwall and every other long tenured vet is retiring a red wing.

Totally agree, It's sounding like Kronwall is planning on only playing this year and next not sure about the 3rd year maybe he goes on LTIR for the last year. But it sounded like from what Khan was saying that he will be done after 2 more seasons.

 

[vannzee]

I asked Ericsson about his hip today and he became somewhat testy, which is odd for him. He said that he had no idea what the papers were reporting and where they got that from. Said the hip is fine.

Ericsson is a bit of a joker but he was very stern on this subject

 

[Heaton]

I asked Ericsson about his hip today and he became somewhat testy, which is odd for him. He said that he had no idea what the papers were reporting and where they got that from. Said the hip is fine.

Ericsson is a bit of a joker but he was very stern on this subject

Did he say if he's injured at all?

 

[Bench]

That's odd. Said papers, both Detroit and Sweden, quote him directly on the issue?

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Clearly this is just all an elaborate plan to put E on LTIR because of concussion symptoms.

 

[Winger98]

That's odd. Said papers, both Detroit and Sweden, quote him directly on the issue?

Maybe there was some misspeaking/miscommunications involved, but I think it's more likely Ericsson told the truth in an interview but still didn't expect his future fan interactions to be more questions about hips than for a picture and an autograph.

 

[Bench]

If he played fantasy football he'd understand how invested we are in player injuries.

 

[vannzee]

I have come across Ericsson on a few occasions and he is always very friendly and talkative with fans. When I mentioned the hips, he seemed almost mad. Yes, he is a jokester but I didn't get that vibe.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I have come across Ericsson on a few occasions and he is always very friendly and talkative with fans. When I mentioned the hips, he seemed almost mad. Yes, he is a jokester but I didn't get that vibe.

It's not that surprising to me, given that the news about it in the papers usually go on to talk about how his play isn't going to get better and he could become a burden to the team.