All-encompassing anti-Pittsburgh thread

[Minnewildsota]

And bought into Marcus Johansson, and Nick Bjugstad. Also didn't move Rask, who might singlehandedly be responsible for us losing Kaprizov.

Also, the sky is falling

 

[TaLoN]

Also, the sky is falling

Or, more likely, he falls somewhere in the middle.

Deserves credit for seeing that getting out from some players is a good idea, deserves blame for not finding remotely quality NHL'ers to help fix things.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Or, more likely, he falls somewhere in the middle.

Deserves credit for seeing that getting out from some players is a good idea, deserves blame for not finding remotely quality NHL'ers to help fix things.

I just said he might know what he’s doing. I don’t think you’re going to get better value for those players as much as we would like to believe. Would have been difficult turning a turd into a diamond

 

[TaLoN]

I just said he might know what he’s doing. I don’t think you’re going to get better value for those players as much as we would like to believe. Would have been difficult turning a turd into a diamond

I'm just saying, you can give both credit and blame where it's due. You have him credit, he gave him blame, that doesn't mean the sky is falling, it's just, hey, he's made mistakes to go with his successes.

He's neither perfect or incompetent.

 

[Minnewildsota]

I'm just saying, you can give both credit and blame where it's due. You have him credit, he gave him blame, that doesn't mean the sky is falling, it's just, hey, he's made mistakes to go with his successes.

He's neither perfect or incompetent.

Right. I agree with that. HOWEVER, this board focuses on the mistakes, or perceived mistakes. I just wanted to point out that getting it from under those players was absolutely the correct move.

 

[TaLoN]

Right. I agree with that. HOWEVER, this board focuses on the mistakes, or perceived mistakes. I just wanted to point out that getting it from under those players was absolutely the correct move.

Which I agree with. The problem with most people seeing the mistakes however, has to with what he's done after getting rid of players needing rid of.

Replacing them with players that are maybe almost as bad or worse.

Had Koivu still been here, even as down as his game was, likely would've been our 2nd best center in hindsight.

Staal proved he was complete burnt toast though, so him being gone was good, but Johansson seems to be equally burnt toast.

People care about who's here, so it's who is here that gets the most attention, hence the mistake focus.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Which I agree with. The problem with most people seeing the mistakes however, has to with what he's done after getting rid of players needing rid of.

Replacing them with players that are maybe almost as bad or worse.

Had Koivu still been here, even as down as his game was, likely would've been our 2nd best center in hindsight.

Staal proved he was complete burnt toast though, so him being gone was good, but Johansson seems to be equally burnt toast.

People care about who's here, so it's who is here that gets the most attention, hence the mistake focus.

Understood, but it seems like it wasn’t all talent focused (bring rid of certain players). It was also about changing the atmosphere. I mean, what were people really expecting, to trade Staal for Matthews?

Obviously the players traded away didn’t hold THAT much value. If I’m not mistaken, wasn’t it Fenton that traded Nino for Rask? I don’t think there’s realistically much he could do in that situation; having Rask. As much as everyone Wild love to think otherwise.

 

[StateofCelly]

Which I agree with. The problem with most people seeing the mistakes however, has to with what he's done after getting rid of players needing rid of.

Replacing them with players that are maybe almost as bad or worse.

Had Koivu still been here, even as down as his game was, likely would've been our 2nd best center in hindsight.

Staal proved he was complete burnt toast though, so him being gone was good, but Johansson seems to be equally burnt toast.

People care about who's here, so it's who is here that gets the most attention, hence the mistake focus.

Though there are plenty of things to judge Guerin on, the one thing I will say is considering he was handed missteps or problems created by Fenton and Fletcher that he has actually done something about them.. not just sat idle and let it play out. It may not be the best plans, but we haven't seen a Nino for Rask mistake (yet). So inheriting the Rask, Parise and Suter contracts are some of the hardest situations he faced. I think he has tried to move on from Rask but he carried so much dead weight into this last year, especially with Covid and the cap.. and now with one year left I don't think it was as big of a need as the Parise move.. jury still out on the Suter one but I am opening up to it.

I agree that the guys he replaced those vets with may not have been the best, but ultimately don't think his plan for this past season was truly to be as competitive as they were. 6 to 8 months ago he discussed yesterdays buyouts could have involved guys like Rossi getting playing time, Marat developing in the KHL, Addison in the AHL and potentially having a few bad years and hit that "tank"... I think the weak division kind of forced our hand to play it out and raised external expectations, but theirs internally maybe haven't truly ever waivered.

 

[TaLoN]

not just sat idle and let it play out

I feel he sat idle too long though, and even in his press conference he admitted he was tired of watching and waiting and wanted to start being proactive.

I think he could've started being more proactive sooner rather than later. That's been my biggest complaint.

 

[AKL]

I feel he sat idle too long though, and even in his press conference he admitted he was tired of watching and waiting and wanted to start being proactive.

I think he could've started being more proactive sooner rather than later. That's been my biggest complaint.

This has been my biggest problem with him. Even if he wasn't ready to start "buying", he should have been "selling". Instead he did very little either way. I've been saying that for an entire year.

 

[57special]

As I've said before, I am firmly on the fence about Guerin. This summer will be the acid test.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

As I've said before, I am firmly on the fence about Guerin. This summer will be the acid test.

How's it going so far?

 

[57special]

How's it going so far?

Being on the fence means you don't really know. I certainly didn't see the Suter buyout coming.

 

[2Pair]

This has been my biggest problem with him. Even if he wasn't ready to start "buying", he should have been "selling". Instead he did very little either way. I've been saying that for an entire year.

"But, he's only had the job for 2+years. How much could he possibly do" "Pandemic, Covid, Blah Blah, f***ing Blah"

 

[Ban Hammered]

This has been my biggest problem with him. Even if he wasn't ready to start "buying", he should have been "selling". Instead he did very little either way. I've been saying that for an entire year.

And again...if he sells when we are a playoff team and we drop out ..the fans bitch then too.
Also... you really think Leipold would let him sell off players from a playoff team? No owner does that. Let's not act like he can just do whatever he may want here.

 

[TaLoN]

And again...if he sells when we are a playoff team and we drop out ..the fans bitch then too.
Also... you really think Leipold would let him sell off players from a playoff team? No owner does that. Let's not act like he can just do whatever he may want here.

There's more than just the trade deadline though. If he wasn't planning on competing, he could have sold sooner. There's a whole offseason to work with before the season. Selling isn't just about the trade deadline only.

 

[Ban Hammered]

There's more than just the trade deadline though. If he wasn't planning on competing, he could have sold sooner. There's a whole offseason to work with before the season. Selling isn't just about the trade deadline only.

Of course it's not...but when he brings in a lot of guys on one year left on their deals with a team that looks like it won't make the playoffs...that's when guys get dealt.
A lot of this just continues to look like "Guerin isn't doing what I think he should do so I don't like him and he's terrible at this job." Which is some hardcore BS.

 

[TaLoN]

Of course it's not...but when he brings in a lot of guys on one year left on their deals with a team that looks like it won't make the playoffs...that's when guys get dealt.
A lot of this just continues to look like "Guerin isn't doing what I think he should do so I don't like him and he's terrible at this job." Which is some hardcore BS.

I disgree, but that's fine. Not everyone sees things the same. I personally believe if you aren't building, you are falling behind. Bringing in guys like Bonino isn't building. Playing Rask on the top line isn't building. Not looking for longer term solutions like Trocheck when the opportunity was there, that's falling behind.

Thus I view what he was doing... as not doing anything... and thus simply lost time and opportunity because he was not being proactive as he himself said he was tired of not being.

 

[Ban Hammered]

I disgree, but that's fine. Not everyone sees things the same. I personally believe if you aren't building, you are falling behind. Bringing in guys like Bonino isn't building. Playing Rask on the top line isn't building. Not looking for longer term solutions like Trocheck when the opportunity was there, that's falling behind.

Thus I view what he was doing... as not doing anything... and thus simply lost time and opportunity because he was not being proactive as he himself said he was tired of not being.

If every move made had to be "building" you're going to hate every GM this team ever has.

 

[TaLoN]

If every move made had to be "building" you're going to hate every GM this team ever has.

I get that, but you should still see my point. As I said, even Guerin admitted he was "tired of watching and waiting" meaning he saw what he was doing as... inaction as well.

It was wasted time IMO.

 

[Minnewildsota]

I get that, but you should still see my point. As I said, even Guerin admitted he was "tired of watching and waiting" meaning he saw what he was doing as... inaction as well.

It was wasted time IMO.

Eh, I’d rather have a GM come in and get a lay of the land then coming in and doing a Fenton.

 

[Ban Hammered]

I get that, but you should still see my point. As I said, even Guerin admitted he was "tired of watching and waiting" meaning he saw what he was doing as... inaction as well.

It was wasted time IMO.

Saying he was tired of it, doesn't mean what he was doing was the wrong decision though. It just means now it's time to do something. Inaction isn't a bad thing in and of itself.

 

[MuckOG]

I get that, but you should still see my point. As I said, even Guerin admitted he was "tired of watching and waiting" meaning he saw what he was doing as... inaction as well.

It was wasted time IMO.

I think the Wild playing well and making the playoffs through a bit of a wrench in his plans. Tough to justify to the fans (and owner) selling off players for futures as you head into the postseason.

 

[TaLoN]

Eh, I’d rather have a GM come in and get a lay of the land then coming in and doing a Fenton.

For 2 years? That's not getting the lay of the land, that's squatting.

I could understand going through the first season to see how things are inside and outside the locker room...2 years though? Yeah, doesn't take that long. Sorry

Tough to justify to the fans (and owner) selling off players for futures as you head into the postseason.

As I already stated previously, we're not just talking about trade deadlines. He pretty much wasted last offseason.

 

[AKL]

I think the Wild playing well and making the playoffs through a bit of a wrench in his plans. Tough to justify to the fans (and owner) selling off players for futures as you head into the postseason.

He just bought out Suter and Parise. Is it really that tough to justify selling Marcus Johansson or Nick Bonino at the deadline?