Confirmed with Link: All contracts settled. Buyout window open for 48 hrs

[DFF]

Why are we assuming 900k for Hathaway? I'll be surprised if he gets 750k.

But even if he does get 900k, we could waive/demote Hathaway and Lazar, call up Klimchuk & Ehliz and save an additional 420k.

Yes he should get a 2 way minimum

This guy is not an nhler

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Bonuses can be differed or we can run a 22 man roster. It's fine.

If we defer the bonus to next year, that's $850k less to sign a goalie or Smith, and re-sign Kulak, Tkachuk & Bennett.

Yes, buying out Brouwer becomes a viable option at that point.

Why are we assuming 900k for Hathaway? I'll be surprised if he gets 750k.

I didn't think Kulak would get $900k yet here we are.

 

[Volica]

Actually, the cap space remaining is $5,382,457

Bonuses for Tkachuk: $850,000
Cap Space Remaining: $4,532,457

Assume $900,000 for Hathaway
Cap Space Remaining: $3,632,457

Assume $3,400,000 AAV for Hanifin (2 year bridge)
Cap Space Remaining: $232,457

We're in pretty lousy shape.

Brouwer's 900k playing in the AHL would be nice

 

[Calculon]

Buying out Brouwer is the most rational choice. It'd let them comfortably sign Hanifin long term while also ensuring breathing space for bonuses and short term injuries during the season. Shame the Flames won't do it.

 

[Lunatik]

Buying out Brouwer is the most rational choice. It'd let them comfortably sign Hanifin long term while also ensuring breathing space for bonuses and short term injuries during the season. Shame the Flames won't do it.

No, it isn't. 4 years of cap penalties is a terrible thing. Gaining 3 million this year when we don't desperately need it would be foolish and terrible cap management.

 

[Volica]

Buying out Brouwer is the most rational choice. It'd let them comfortably sign Hanifin long term while also ensuring breathing space for bonuses and short term injuries during the season. Shame the Flames won't do it.

Burying him in the minors to me makes the most amount of sense this season. Get some cap relief; gives our AHL team an NHL vet who could probably lead them in scoring (maybe)... helps them out a lot; we graduated their best 2 players from the past couple seasons.

 

[Rangediddy]

Burying him in the minors to me makes the most amount of sense this season. Get some cap relief; gives our AHL team an NHL vet who could probably lead them in scoring (maybe)... helps them out a lot; we graduated their best 2 players from the past couple seasons.

They won't do that before the season starts so all of our cap moves will happen prior to October. I do think Brouwer should be on a short leash anyways though. Demoting him will be mostly based on his play, not for cap reasons (the relief will just be a bonus)

 

[Mobiandi]

Looking ahead, after this season the Bouma and Murphy buyouts come off the books which is 900K. Brouwer will likely get bought out which saves 3M for 19-20. Stone is likely gone and if Dube can make Frolik expendable it would be gravy.

Thats 11.9 million which we can use towards Tkachuk and Bennett extensions and a goalie if all works out well

 

[Volica]

They won't do that before the season starts so all of our cap moves will happen prior to October. I do think Brouwer should be on a short leash anyways though. Demoting him will be mostly based on his play, not for cap reasons (the relief will just be a bonus)

I'm going to wait for camp to play out really.
Brouwer will get every chance to make this team, because:
A) His salary demands it
B) There's a lot of value in 'veteran leadership', 'intangibles' and 'leadership' (he's a well liked guy in the room)

If he goes the entire preseason at like 0 points, negative statistics... I think there's a chance he's down there before we start the season. It'll be interesting to see what kind of shape he comes in this year. I'd love for him to be a 30-35 point player with 'intangibles' for us.

I really thought when Mike Smith threw this team under the bus, that his comments should have rang heavily on Troy. The guy's brought in to be a leader and the goalie is pointing out that an AHL plug has more balls than other guys.

 

[Rangediddy]

I'm going to wait for camp to play out really.
Brouwer will get every chance to make this team, because:
A) His salary demands it
B) There's a lot of value in 'veteran leadership', 'intangibles' and 'leadership' (he's a well liked guy in the room)

If he goes the entire preseason at like 0 points, negative statistics... I think there's a chance he's down there before we start the season. It'll be interesting to see what kind of shape he comes in this year. I'd love for him to be a 30-35 point player with 'intangibles' for us.

I really thought when Mike Smith threw this team under the bus, that his comments should have rang heavily on Troy. The guy's brought in to be a leader and the goalie is pointing out that an AHL plug has more balls than other guys.

Who's the AHL plug? Lomberg?

 

[Volica]

Who's the AHL plug? Lomberg?

Tanner Glass was who Smith was referring to.

 

[Calculon]

Pretty sure there were allegations that Brouwer wasn't happy with his diminished role last season so the last thing the organization should want is a malcontent with their developmental team. And now with the added depth, it would take significant injuries before he even got the chance to play above the fourth line. It's really not at all realistic to think he's going to be able to bounce back, offensively at least, while getting fourth line minutes and little to no powerplay time.

Moreover, sending him down doesn't actually save a whole lot of cap space because his replacement carries a cap hit too. Best case would be someone like Graovac's 650K which would save 400K.

Again, when it comes to a buyout, it's not two years versus four, it's three years vs four. Buying him out next year means his cap hit will be on the books until the end of the 2020-2021 season. Buying him out now means a cap hit until 2021-2022. It's one whole year of an extra 1.5M in dead cap space. Oh the horror.

And clearly the Flames are not in a good spot cap wise when they either have to carry less than a complete 23 man roster or are forced into shortsighted and stupid bridge deals.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

And clearly the Flames are not in a good spot cap wise when they either have to carry less than a complete 23 man roster or are forced into shortsighted and stupid bridge deals.

Which stupid bridge deal are you referring to?

 

[Volica]

Pretty sure there were allegations that Brouwer wasn't happy with his diminished role last season so the last thing the organization should want is a malcontent with their developmental team. And now with the added depth, it would take significant injuries before he even got the chance to play above the fourth line. It's really not at all realistic to think he's going to be able to bounce back, offensively at least, while getting fourth line minutes and little to no powerplay time.

Moreover, sending him down doesn't actually save a whole lot of cap space because his replacement carries a cap hit too. Best case would be someone like Graovac's 650K which would save 400K.

Again, when it comes to a buyout, it's not two years versus four, it's three years vs four. Buying him out next year means his cap hit will be on the books until the end of the 2020-2021 season. Buying him out now means a cap hit until 2021-2022. It's one whole year of an extra 1.5M in dead cap space. Oh the horror.

And clearly the Flames are not in a good spot cap wise when they either have to carry less than a complete 23 man roster or are forced into shortsighted and stupid bridge deals.

This is also very true.
1.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 1.5
is very close to:
4.5 + 1.5 + 1.5

We actually save 1.5 going this summer buyout; we just carry 1.5 of dead space for an extra year.

I do think that Brouwer's a professional (I'd hope) though. If you told him he wasn't good enough for the NHL, and you're sending him down to the A to find his play again and maybe be able to find a home next summer; you'd hope the guy didn't bitch all the way there. I mean, he has the report, he has to play. He's still being paid a lot of money to teach kids.

 

[Calculon]

Brouwer would definitely report, he just might not all that pleased about it. It's a risk.

Which stupid bridge deal are you referring to?

Hanifin's. The Flames simply do not have the cap space to give him anything more than a bridge deal at the moment, which could end up biting them if he breaks out offensively in that span. Right now, you might be able to get him on a longterm deal at around 4.5M-5M. But if he puts up 40+ points over the next couple of years, the number goes up quite a bit.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Brouwer would definitely report, he just might not all that pleased about it. It's a risk.


Hanifin's. The Flames simply do not have the cap space to give him anything more than a bridge deal at the moment, which could end up biting them if he breaks out offensively in that span. Right now, you might be able to get him on a longterm deal at around 4.5M-5M. But if he puts up 40+ points over the next couple of years, the number goes up quite a bit.

Right now we're in a bind. We could overpay on a long term deal and have him not hit his potential, not to mention anything longer than 5 years (might be 4) puts him as a UFA in his prime.

So we can do a deal that is risky on two fronts, or we can bridge him, control his RFA/UFA years better at the risk of having to pay him more.

I lean more to the latter personally.

 

[Lunatik]

I'd be more worried about Brouwer if he wasn't upset about his diminished role. If he wasn't the fire would be gone. But there is a difference between being upset and being angry at the organization , there is absolutely zero evidence of the latter.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I'd be more worried about Brouwer if he wasn't upset about his diminished role. If he wasn't the fire would be gone. But there is a difference between being upset and being angry at the organization , there is absolutely zero evidence of the latter.

Hopefully if he is upset about it, it's because he is upset with his own level of play.

 

[Lunatik]

Hopefully if he is upset about it, it's because he is upset with his own level of play.

that was my point, I don't think I articulated it the best

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Both are on one-year, one-way deals.

 

[super6646]

Both are on one-year, one-way deals.

Ehhh, wouldn't mind if he was released. He is a career AHLer (or should be). He should be happy with the 650k, though he will probably get around 815k because they always settle in the middle, and idk if he is worth that (he isn't worth almost a million).

 

[SmellOfVictory]

No, it isn't. 4 years of cap penalties is a terrible thing. Gaining 3 million this year when we don't desperately need it would be foolish and terrible cap management.

Depends how you define the need. After arbitration is over the Flames will have just enough to bridge Hanifin with minimal breathing room in the cap. Not particularly ideal. If they can get Hanifin long term for under 5 million/year, I think they should 100% do it, and that would mean they have to buy out Brouwer or trading Stone. I'd prefer the trade because I also dislike buyouts, but it may not happen.

 

[Calculon]

Don't believe there's anything the Flames can do to just release Hathaway. And despite a lot thinking he's nothing more than waiver fodder, Treliving, right or wrong, clearly likes the guy.

It's interesting that he gets a one way offer while Kulak was only offered a two way.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Ehhh, wouldn't mind if he was released. He is a career AHLer (or should be). He should be happy with the 650k, though he will probably get around 815k because they always settle in the middle, and idk if he is worth that (he isn't worth almost a million).

hes got nothing to lose by filing if they offered him league minimum. They probably could’ve offered him like 750k off the bat and got him signed, offering him 650k is a bit silly in my opinion.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

hes got nothing to lose by filing if they offered him league minimum. They probably could’ve offered him like 750k off the bat and got him signed, offering him 650k is a bit silly in my opinion.

That's the arb offer, not the original contract offer, though. By my understanding, going into arbitration the team will always lowball the crap out of the player, because if they start higher the arbitrator will likely end up at a higher salary.