I think we got our core locked in young enough and cheaply enough in terms of the cap that we have less to worry about than (at least) LA and Chicago.
Speculation: All Coaching Talk - Part 2
- Thread starter These Are The Days
- Start date
I think we got our core locked in young enough and cheaply enough in terms of the cap that we have less to worry about than (at least) LA and Chicago.
Todd1a
Kucherov or prospect
That's the issue with yzerman he thinks he can keep the window open 10 years and that's just unrealistic! Sooner or later teams have to go through a rebuild.
Completely agree with this. What the hell is a regroup year? We didn't contend last year, are we really going to do the same two years in a row? That is god awful.
We were favored to win the cup last year - missed the damn playoffs. We were tied for second favored to win the cup this year and we're gonna "regroup"?
How the hell are you gonna spoon feed that to the fans - especially after that BS letter from management about how last year was unacceptable?
These Are The Days
Oh no! We suck again!!
I fully agree with every point you made but I think Cooper for the most part moved on from that. Guys like Point and Dotchin got their chances and thrived while the old guard was traded but I saw no issues with his utilization of players because half the time we had multiple players out. In a more specific way this is why I feel how I do.
1. Trade franchise best goalie and see him sign team friendly deal
2. Grow insatiable hard on for Shattenkirk and attempt to trade arguably our most skilled forward in the process
3. Trade said forward to division opponent for a player we wont see for AT LEAST 2 years given how we develop defensemen. Said player signs great extension
4. Trade arguably the best player in the KHL in expansion and throw up your hands and say "well I wasn't sure about him" when we previously offered an AHL only deal at some point
5. Do not re-sign best 4C in the NHL while he (you guessed it!) signs a great deal.
6. Proceed to sign both of the WORST UFA's on the market
7. Do absolutely nothing as a guy like Radulov goes to Dallas on YET AGAIN another great deal.
Like I said if we lose less than 32 games I will be stunned. This is literally the definition of insanity at full practice by our management
These Are The Days
Oh no! We suck again!!
With all that said I cannot see how Cooper succeeds. Our lackidasical effort and lack of chemistry has proven for YEARS now that Coops system was not the issue. We rallied to within a point of the playoffs with an AHL team and Cooper did nothing different system wise in the process.
Unfortunately Drouin was the key that unlocked the offense and all Yzerman had to do was leave it alone. The sad part is due to injuries and a holdout Stamkos and Drouin played together maybe just over a dozen times in 3 years after a healthy scratch of a rookie year due to Cooper
Unfortunately Drouin was the key that unlocked the offense and all Yzerman had to do was leave it alone. The sad part is due to injuries and a holdout Stamkos and Drouin played together maybe just over a dozen times in 3 years after a healthy scratch of a rookie year due to Cooper
Sky04
Registered User
- Jan 8, 2009
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Rookie year, 1st game with Stamkos, instead of investing in this pairing Drouin goes back to the 4th line 2 games later and stays there the rest of the season in favor of Killorn. The best part was that Cooper spent a year killing his confidence and not bothering to develop him only to lose 2 top-6 players in the finals and having no one to score. Just perfect, would love to see your pro-cooper argument for that one.
Drouin/Stamkos could have = Marty/Stamkos which could have = 2x Hart candidates.
Might go down as one of the biggest mistakes in franchise history.
Might go down as one of the biggest mistakes in franchise history.
Kramerica Industries
Registered User
Drouin was also a proven playoff performer. He put the team on his back offensively during the series against Pittsburgh last year, and was just about the only reason they had a chance to win it. Finding players like that is invaluable.
Cooper failed to trust him even after that. I'll never understand.
Cooper failed to trust him even after that. I'll never understand.
The Gongshow
Fire JBB
Coop is stuck in his ways and has his favourites...Killorn
The only reason Kuch got top 6 minutes was due to injuries and then TKO took off and carried the team for a whole year/playoff run. Same with Point, injuries forced him to be our #1 C and he produced.
Coop ruined Drouins career here, pushed him out and soured his taste for Tampa. It sucks but its time for us to look forward to other rookies being put on the 4th line
These Are The Days
Oh no! We suck again!!
At no point have I ever defended Coop in that situation. Come January 2016 I was calling for his job for the handling of Drouin alone. Following the holdout Coop lightened up and so did I. Especially since we made the ECF. Last year had nothing to do with him it had to do with our lazy ass team being lazy while Yzerman sat back and started daydreaming about Shattenkirk. Meanwhile Cooper did nothing different and we went from last place to within a point of a playoff spot with an AHL lineup.
Coop isnt toast because he mishandled Drouin or becsuse he overcompensates by doubling down on defense when our entire offense shuts down when Kucherov hits a slump.
He is done like Christmas dinner because this is the THIRD year we are rolling with a broke down TKO line and our other top options for Stamkos is 3 overwhelming black holes in Vladdy, Killer and Callahan.
Todd1a
Kucherov or prospect
I don't see how cooper keeps his job next year even if we stay healthy I don't know if this group can make the playoffs? Vasy also has to prove he can handle the full time load! He was up and down until the last month and a half he got really good! Which vasy will we get next year ?
These Are The Days
Oh no! We suck again!!
Sky I have had 4 damn years to watch this team and I can tell you full hearted that the TEAM is the problem especially when you roll with essentially the same lineup every year.
Any Cooper sentiment at this moment in time in Lightning nation if very toxic. If you are leaning only slightly towards firing Cooper you are currently pro-Cooper 
The entire Drouin situation is very frustrating. The only possible scenario where his use is excusable is if there was some major issues behind the scenes. There are some happenings which justify his misuse, but since it's not in the spotlight all we can do is speculate.
BTW, Kucherov got the Drouin treatment too. It didn't last too long, the west coast trip which forged "the triplet line" forced Cooper to keep Kucherov with Palat and Johnson. That was a magical season, Kucherov murdered the league with less than 15 minutes average per night.
The entire Drouin situation is very frustrating. The only possible scenario where his use is excusable is if there was some major issues behind the scenes. There are some happenings which justify his misuse, but since it's not in the spotlight all we can do is speculate.
BTW, Kucherov got the Drouin treatment too. It didn't last too long, the west coast trip which forged "the triplet line" forced Cooper to keep Kucherov with Palat and Johnson. That was a magical season, Kucherov murdered the league with less than 15 minutes average per night.
TampaJay
Registered User
- Jan 16, 2016
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- 151
This idea that Cooper will not play young players is not borne out by the facts. It is all because of his failure to develop one player. Point didn’t just get playing time due to injuries, Cooper was playing him right from the start (when I and many others thought he should be in the AHL) because Cooper trusted him because he plays a solid two way game. He didn’t have to tell Point that there were “two nets on the ice.†Kucherov didn’t just luck into a top six role due to injuries. Give the kid some credit, he busted his ass to improve his defensive game which was not too good when he first came up. He talks about watching film of himself for hours with the coaching staff to improve. Cooper trusted Johnson and Palat early on. Cooper is the guy who was known as the “prospect whisperer†in the AHL. Yes, he failed miserably with Drouin, but part of that was Drouin stubbornness in thinking he didn’t need to improve his D. The problem with Cooper is his biases. Some guys are allowed more mistakes than others, regardless of age.
Sort of agree. Every other night Drouin would commit a premeditated and unnecessary risky move that gave the other team a grade A scoring chance. In OT, he'd cherry pick and over commit on breakaways in situations when his linemates didn't even have a 50-50 chance of winning possession of the puck. Now, I think his offense overshadowed those occurrences, but as a coach I guess it's up to you to make a stand on team philosophy or making the best use of an individual player.
The use of Koekkoek however is less understandable. He's never been blatantly offense first and I've never seen him forsake his defensive responsibilities.
TampaJay
Registered User
- Jan 16, 2016
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Yeh, but to argue with myself, while I can understand Cooper not trusting Drouin 5v5, there was no logical reason not to have him on the first power play. Koekkoek is a riddle, somehow Cooper trusts him in the ECF when everything is on the line and then the next year he trusts him less than Nesterov? Riddle me that. Then at the end of the year a rookie Dman ends up on the top pair. I’m not being uncritical, I’m just saying, whatever the biases is, it is not just against youth. There are too many instances that disprove that.
Most of this has nothing to do with your original point about offense.
Cooper buries unproven offensive talent.
Sky04
Registered User
- Jan 8, 2009
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Even though you're overstating it so did the captain, Steven Stamkos...... but turn a blind eye right? The hypocracy has also been a major crticism of Cooper which has undoubtly led to the complacency issue everyone has noted. Don't punish star players? We'll now they know they have a free pass.
And I've been making this argument for years. Treat Johnson, Killorn and Palat like they can't do no wrong? they take half seasons off.
I don't think I was though. Plenty of players on the team made mistakes inside the system, and sure Drouin had a few of those too. Those are forgivable and people would be right to get on Cooper for punishing young players because of them. I am talking about something different, when Drouin would purposefully ignore his defensive responsibilities and take chances cheating up the boards. That's the type of thing that drives coaches mad.
Remember that amazing OT goal Drouin had against Colorado? It was such a beauty that we ignored his previous shift. On that shift, Drouin tried to cherry pick a break away and got caught letting an Av's player get in behind him for a grade A scoring chance. In the post game show Cooper was asked about the amazing Drouin goal, and you could see it all over his face and how he answered the question that he was really bothered by it. I say this as someone who has never liked Cooper, but you can't let players freely do whatever they want without consequence.
Maelmoor
Registered User
Drouin is no longer part of the team, we can speculate to the end of time why, what and how but we should look forward and move on.
LightningStrikes
Champa Bay Lightning
- Nov 24, 2009
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Context matters though. Nesterov was brought in for a very specific reason at the time: Improve our offense. He has the ability to carry the puck up ice and create scoring chances. Also, showcasing him for trade-bait. Dotchin was brought in as a bandaid but had instant chemistry with Hedman, isn't terrible defensively and neither offensively and will play the body without hesitation which helped our rather soft lineup. So he immediately stuck.
Koekkoek seemed overwhelmed at times and had trouble with physical opponents. They decided he'd benefit more from playing in the AHL in a top-4 role than playing passenger on the 3rd pairing 2/5 games a week in the NHL.
As TampaJay pointed out Cooper is pretty consistent when it comes to rookie forwards. If they are solid or at least not a liablity defensively they'll get a fair chance and more than one. See Johnson, Palat, Kucherov, Point, Namestnikov, Gourde etc. The opposite can be said for the likes of Drouin, Panik or Connolly who regularly let the foot off the gas the moment we lost the puck.
When it comes to vet players though Cooper's decision making is questionable at best, see Killorn, Filppula, Morrow, Garrison, ...
Todd1a
Kucherov or prospect
The first decade of it there was no salary cap they were able to stack up talent and keep almost all of it.
I think that is far-fetched. Drouin has had his inconsistency as much as the other guy. Think the whole Drouin and Stamkos thing was overrated and thrown out of proportion here. You can't blame Yzerman for trading Drouin. He did not want to be here, and made it known publicly. Whatever he does in Montreal has no bearing on what he would have or could have done in Tampa.
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