Speculation: All Coaching Talk - Part 2

[Maelmoor]

I liked how he handled the slump, gave the team time to find back on track, when it didn't happen he made some changes and got a result.

 

[Sky04]

I have personally zero issue with the way Cooper has been coaching this team once Yzerman traded his chew toy at the TDL : Valtteri Filppula. Might be a bit coincidental, but It's like he suddenly realized he had nothing to lose and he finally tried to rely on speed and asserted a more bold, aggressive system, particularly supporting a greater involvement from the defenders in the offensive game.

His system became really too conservative once we got our eyes on the Prize, aka playoffs 2015, and kinda nullified the team strength. Felt the pressure of what was at stake probably. A lack of experience I believe. Now it feels like they're all on the same page once again, and that's fun to watch.

It's funny how Cooper himself noted he changed his game this summer (as multiple people have noted) when people were saying he didn't need to change anything! Hence the result.

 

[dbieon12]

The title of this thread is ridiculous in retrospect.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Fire dbieon12.

 

[RDTBay4]

 

[These Are The Days]

Coop considers running a different trap scheme to be reinventing himself? Oh dear merciful Lord. I'm as glad as the next person he switched it up but maybe it's got something to do with being healthy and new players being effective?

I swear on the Cup that the success of this season is a direct reflection of the emergence of Point and Vasilevskiy. Because we would legitimately have about 3 to 5 less wins on the year were it not for their clutch performances and the degree of their maturation.

 

[LightningStrikes]

The title of this thread is ridiculous in retrospect.

What title?

 

[Werewolf]

I mean, I agree, as that's the take that makes the most sense. The players honestly looked like they were being forced to do something they wanted no part of. They had that exact same look on the bench that dogs and cats get when they're forced to wear humiliating costumes, or that children get when they're forced to eat Lima beans or something. They clearly weren't buying in. The real question is why we stuck with it for so long. Coop looked like he'd all but lost the team, which is usually a point-of-no-return type of deal that you'd think any coach would be pretty wary of.

WTF is this? Jesus ... what proof do you have that he almost lost the team? We had two straight seasons where the team played into June plus the team didn't have a training camp with Cooper as he was at the worlds with team North America and we had what ... like 12 roster players that didn't show to training camp 'cause they were with their National Team early. Plus the most CAP Dollars lost due to injury by a WIDE HUGE MARGIN and the second most man games lost due to injury in the league. We had a defenseman who is no longer in the league a year later (Garrison) and another who is a regular scratch a year later (Sustr) playing a large amount of minutes. Don't get me started on Bishop's play.

There has been zero mention at any time by any of the players on this team AND former players that Cooper isn't respected up and down the organization. Hell, if you even take a minute to read other team's GDTs you'd see that Cooper is respected more by other team fan bases than his own in this forum. The only agenda that a few people around here want to push is their disdain for how he played and treated the head case that is Drouin. Drouin is an under performing third overall ... he is more a globetrotter instead of a NBA player. It takes much more than fancy hands to be a top line player in this league. We have developed young players largely in the NHL - Kuch, Point, Serg, Vasilevskiy, etc, etc. hell even Hedman under this coach grew to achieve his full potential and Coop gets little credit around here for his development as well.

This is his fourth full year as head coach of the Lightning. He has 3 playoff seasons including a SCF and a ECF. He is currently the coach of the best team in the league, plays a fun brand of hockey, is respected at the highest levels of hockey ... he was picked as the head coach of Team Canada!! Dude is a hell of coach ... and yet we have posters here who say he gets out-coached and he can't develop elite talent, and he can't manage players, and he almost lost the team. Who are you trying to fool? Its evident what this guy has accomplished in such a short time. He is the third most important person in this organization (Vinnik / Yzerman) and its time he gets the credit he deserves from everywhere around the league except by this forum's chicken little posters.

 

[These Are The Days]

Well said, Wolf. Although I think you're hyping Coop a bit much the rest of your points stand. To see people get THIS pissed off as they do that we did not win the Cup in a year we were not expected to when Johnson had a broken wrist, Kucherov got hurt and Bishop played through a pulled groin is impossible. It's even crazier that he gets criticized for the next year when we pushed the Penguins to 7 games without Stamkos until the last game and of Stralman was at 50% or worse and of course Bishop got hurt.... AGAIN

And then last year we sport an AHL club for about 75% of the season and everyone raises hell that we went a little better than .500 with a healthy team in January as if Coop was supposed to flip this magical switch that made them play better. And of course he had to do it without the designated captains. Nawww man. A coach is also supposed to be team psychologist! He can just say "Come onnnnn guuuuyysssss" in between chews of gum while the locker room probably just sits there quiet waiting for a player to speak up because it's usually the part where Stamkos and Callahan would've.

I don't think Coop would deserve the Jack Adams this year but I can confidently say he has demonstrated the best roster management in his Lightning career that we've ever seen.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Now that is a coach!

 

[Sky04]

Tl;Dr probably some white knighting post about how perfect coop is and it's everyone else's fault.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Tl;Dr probably some white knighting post about how perfect coop is and it's everyone else's fault.

I feel it's been the opposite around here the past few years. Every time we won in the past it was the players who stepped up and did their jobs. When we lost it was the coaches fault. I'm not a Coop apologist, he deserved plenty of blame when we lost but so did the players. As did they deserve praise when they won. Granted this is the way it naturally goes with head coaches. You don't get into that business without getting majority of blame when things go wrong.

 

[Sky04]

I feel it's been the opposite around here the past few years. Every time we won in the past it was the players who stepped up and did their jobs. When we lost it was the coaches fault. I'm not a Coop apologist, he deserved plenty of blame when we lost but so did the players. As did they deserve praise when they won. Granted this is the way it naturally goes with head coaches. You don't get into that business without getting majority of blame when things go wrong.

I'm pretty sure Stamkos, Killorn, Johnson, Palat, Garrison, Filppula, Callahan, Paquette, Sustr, Carle, and more have gotten their fair share of criticism when we weren't playing well..... not sure where this narrative comes from. Those who deserve to get called out generally do, unless you're watching with a hard-on for certain people.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I'm pretty sure Stamkos, Killorn, Johnson, Palat, Garrison, Filppula, Callahan, Paquette, Sustr, Carle, and more have gotten their fair share of criticism when we weren't playing well..... not sure where this narrative comes from. Those who deserve to get called out generally do, unless you're watching with a hard-on for certain people.

Yes they did and that's all well and good but when we won barely ever saw coop get praise. It was always the players stepping up. It makes sense just think coaches usually get short end of stick when it comes to this. It's with any sport really though.

 

[These Are The Days]

Tl;Dr probably some white knighting post about how perfect coop is and it's everyone else's fault.

It's uncanny how your reading gives out every time someone makes a point you can't refute. But yet you can read a news article and comment accordingly.

 

[Sky04]

It's uncanny how your reading gives out every time someone makes a point you can't refute. But yet you can read a news article and comment accordingly.

Actually to be honest, points have been refuted and back with stats for over a year, unlike yours - at this point your posts on the matter don't even merit an effort.

So ya know, anything resembling a wall of text, tl;dr.

 

[These Are The Days]

Actually to be honest, points have been refuted and back with stats for over a year, unlike yours - at this point your posts on the matter don't even merit an effort.

So ya know, anything resembling a wall of text, tl;dr.

Or perhaps you simply cannot distinguish good coaching from uncontrollable issues and underperforming rosters. Staying healthy, completing stretch passes, not turning the puck over, staying onside during the rush and not icing the puck isn't a coaching adjustment. And yet those are the single most notable differences between this year and years past. I've spent years calling for players to play better and unfortunately the ways it must be done cannot be condensed into a snarky one liner.

How's your boy Boucher doing these days? I mean... THAT'S the players fault right?

 

[Bolt 45]

WTF is this? Jesus ... what proof do you have that he almost lost the team? We had two straight seasons where the team played into June plus the team didn't have a training camp with Cooper as he was at the worlds with team North America and we had what ... like 12 roster players that didn't show to training camp 'cause they were with their National Team early. Plus the most CAP Dollars lost due to injury by a WIDE HUGE MARGIN and the second most man games lost due to injury in the league. We had a defenseman who is no longer in the league a year later (Garrison) and another who is a regular scratch a year later (Sustr) playing a large amount of minutes. Don't get me started on Bishop's play.

There has been zero mention at any time by any of the players on this team AND former players that Cooper isn't respected up and down the organization. Hell, if you even take a minute to read other team's GDTs you'd see that Cooper is respected more by other team fan bases than his own in this forum. The only agenda that a few people around here want to push is their disdain for how he played and treated the head case that is Drouin. Drouin is an under performing third overall ... he is more a globetrotter instead of a NBA player. It takes much more than fancy hands to be a top line player in this league. We have developed young players largely in the NHL - Kuch, Point, Serg, Vasilevskiy, etc, etc. hell even Hedman under this coach grew to achieve his full potential and Coop gets little credit around here for his development as well.

This is his fourth full year as head coach of the Lightning. He has 3 playoff seasons including a SCF and a ECF. He is currently the coach of the best team in the league, plays a fun brand of hockey, is respected at the highest levels of hockey ... he was picked as the head coach of Team Canada!! Dude is a hell of coach ... and yet we have posters here who say he gets out-coached and he can't develop elite talent, and he can't manage players, and he almost lost the team. Who are you trying to fool? Its evident what this guy has accomplished in such a short time. He is the third most important person in this organization (Vinnik / Yzerman) and its time he gets the credit he deserves from everywhere around the league except by this forum's chicken little posters.

Timely response, I'll give you that much. Wait until the team looks unbeatable then unload on an old post that looks a bit more suspect with the benefit of hindsight. I barely remember posting that.

I'm not going to grade your entire essay, but I will point to the part in my original post where I deliberately used the words "looked like" while suggesting that Coop had lost the team. Proof? Are you serious? I'm a fan on a message board. I'm not rubbing shoulders with these guys on a daily basis.

Smh, to be honest.

 

[MattM92]

Some posters have a bad habit on fixating on the good just as some users have a bad habit of fixating on the bad. Taking both in balance will show that this team had some serious flaws in effort and structure for a couple of years. Blame for effort is debatable. Blame for structure is not. Personally, I view both as coaching issues.

However, two truths can exist. Cooper can have been bad in the past and can have fixed mistakes now. It's OK to admit that the team is playing well now in addition to having good coaching now without denying the coaching in the past was bad.