Boston Bruins All Bruins Trade/ Rumours/2018/part II- Stay on topic!

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I'll be honest I don't follow them nearly as much as some, but yes they did. Still a team like ARZ will never reach the cap ceiling so why wouldn't they be willing to take on "dead money" and gain assets? It would have to be the right deal and right now they are only retaining on 1 of the 3 allotted slots.

Just an idea, thinking outside the box to make someone like Backes more attractive to teams.

Backes has to waive to go anywhere, even discussion-wise

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

Chappelle reference for the absolute win. Gonzo is literally King of the Internet.

Huh?

What?

 

[Mainehockey33]

I don't think all productive players are impact players. Some guys get lots of points on one end while giving up even more on the other. Some guys are PP specialists who drag their team down 5x5 and can't be trusted in a tight game late. Impact guys to me are contributing in every scenario all over the ice, or are a going concern for the opposition every time they are on the ice.

Not all 60 point seasons are equal. Some guys do less with more. If one guy gets to start in the offensive zone most of the time and gets to play against the opposition's 3rd line most nights that's not as impactful as a guy (like Bergeron) who gets the same points while starting in the D-zone more often than not, defending the opposition's top line, and playing in every scenario.

And if you go back and look at my original post I said they WERE impact players, not that they are impact players.

I understand not all players are equal. Krug is sheltered and not as impactful as prime Chara obviously. It’s obviously a spectrum. I won’t call you obtuse because it’s a silly argument and I don’t even know what you’re arguing against.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

And you know for a fact that Neely will block any proposed deal with Edmonton?

YES, again, how many Lucic threads have been created on this forum, Jim.... Boston will never deal with Edmonton in this lifetime on ANY player

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

YES, again, how many Lucic threads have been created on this forum, Jim.... Boston will never deal with Edmonton in this lifetime on ANY player

So you think that EDM/BOS will never make a trade together, and state is as fact, because of fan created Lucic threads? What kind of logic is that??

 

[Jim Turcotte]

YES, again, how many Lucic threads have been created on this forum, Jim.... Boston will never deal with Edmonton in this lifetime on ANY player

It appears that you are letting your imagination get the better of you.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

So you think that EDM/BOS will never make a trade together because of fan created Lucic threads? What kind of logic is that??

look who's leading them, do you want Cap disaster in Boston part II, ASK yourself this why has Chia singlehandedly destroyed two franchises and the 3rd, the team he came from is an absolute disaster, why were there threads here, and actively still on the Edmonton forums that want him gone ASAP

 

[ON3M4N]

Backes has to waive to go anywhere, even discussion-wise

Right which is what I had said in my first post about it. He'd have to know ahead of time where he was going to end up (not ARZ) before he waived.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

look who's leading them, do you want Cap disaster in Boston part II, ASK yourself this why has Chia singlehandedly destroyed two franchises and the 3rd, the team he came from is an absolute disaster, why were there threads here, and actively still on the Edmonton forums that want him gone ASAP

What does any of that have to do with you definitively saying BOS/EDM won't deal with each other?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

It appears that you are letting your imagination get the better of you.

Name the last trade between Boston and Edmonton, then, of any significance, keep in mind we played them twice in the finals....

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Name the last trade between Boston and Edmonton, then, of any significance, keep in mind we played them twice in the finals....

Reasoner/Yan Statsny/2nd rd pick (Lucic) for Samsonov

or how about Guerin and a 1st for Carter/1st/2nd

Ranford for a 1st?...in 1990 no less
Moog for Ranford/Courtnall?...in 1988

or go back to 84, got Linesman for Krushelnyski

 

[LouJersey]

Reasoner/Yan Statsny/2nd rd pick (Lucic) for Samsonov

or how about Guerin and a 1st for Carter/1st/2nd

Ranford for a 1st?...in 1990 no less
Moog for Ranford/Courtnall?...in 1988

or go back to 84, got Linesman for Krushelnyski

You forgot the Moe Lemay/Alan May deal

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I’m catching up in this thread and I keep seeing Stralman included in deal where EK is headed to Tampa.

Is this the Stralman that’s 32, makes $4.5m, and had all of 18 f***ing points last year?

Why is it that people think that Stralman would be a main piece of the deal, but when Boston gets mentioned, McAvoy has to be in the deal? If I am OTT and they offer Stralman, I laugh.

If it’s true that McAvoy would have to be in any deal for EK to Boston, then you can bet they are going to be asking for Sergachev from TB.

 

[McCoy]

They would but Ottawa can't completely tank, they have to try as hard as they can to avoid giving the first overall pick next year and Jack Hughes to Colorado

EK will slap for Islanders perhaps also Tuch finally McAvoy, Russian youngster, Hedman and Strålman the top 4.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

If they get into cap trouble, they can just pawn off one of their superstars for a huge return of picks and prospects to create cap space. Having too many good players is a good problem, not a bad one.

A wise man once said, "a good problem to have is still a problem."

 

[Glove Malfunction]

EK will slap for Islanders perhaps also Tuch finally McAvoy, Russian youngster, Hedman and Strålman the top 4.

Could you say that again in English?

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

This attitude is one of the reasons this team has been able to get away with winning one cup in 46 years. I'd rather win a cup, suck for a few years rebuild and win again. I would really prefer to be a dynasty but.... Being happy to compete has always allowed the Sinden's and O'Connell's to take advantage of this fan base for JJ.

would you say you are more a fan of the way florida marlins have operated the past 15 years or prefer the way a team like st louis cardinals have tried to do it?

me say no to win one and burn it to the ground mentality... me no fan of that. but im wondering if that's what you are actually calling for?

some teams are able to rebuild on the fly... Chicago did it... absolutely... and Pittsburgh has won with 2 different mixes in the Crosby years... so yes it can be done as you say

but really... how many teams are able to win and ever get competitive again after they finally tear it down?

how has new jersey faired after they tore down their team following their trip to the finals in 2011-2012? was it 5 straight failings to make the playoffs? they required an mvp season from hall to sneak in last year... why did he win the mvp? because no one else on his team is any good... or at least that's what they said. this team could easily wander lost for the next half decade

how is Detroit doing? they were considered the number 1 organization in hockey with the very best front office. the team that could do no wrong. and now? how does their rebuild look?

the Edmonton oilers who built the most powerful team in recent history in the early 1980s have been rebuilding now for 35 years... how is that going for them?

if Edmonton wasn't the most powerful team of the 1980s it would have to be the new York islanders... what happened to them when bossey retired... Potvin got old... they moved trottier and tried to rebuild? have the been relevant in the last 30 years?

the Philadelphia flyers struck gold with their innovative approach to hockey in the mid 1970s... their own spent as much as anyone in the precap era to get another cup... and now its been 40 years for them

sure its easy to say cup or bust... its easy to say you are willing to struggle for 3-4 years to rebuild in order to get a cup...

but what is the reality of that approach?

a team like Washington.... kept trying... kept trying... kept trying... people said its a bust... break up the core... rebuild... these guys ar losers... first round exits... cant get past pittburgh…..

and what happened? the team of underachievers... the team of playoff disappointments... they won a cup... fancy that

winning the cup requires some luck. teams can get very good like Ottawa... like san jose… like st louis... like Vancouver... can win president trophies and enter the playoffs as favorites... but how many cups have these 4 teams won in the past 30 years between them?

theres no guarantee anyone wins the cup even when they have a team good enough to win

the sane way to build a team that can be entertaining... sell tickets... and maybe win the cup is a steady tried and true method. put down a foundation you can build upon... identify the core guys that can be allowed to mature together and learn how to win as a group... and then fine tune and hope your bingo number pops up next

our core is cup worthy imho. weve done a good job. now is the time for fine tuning and hoping we catch a break like we did in 2011

 

[Absurdity]

I’m catching up in this thread and I keep seeing Stralman included in deal where EK is headed to Tampa.

Is this the Stralman that’s 32, makes $4.5m, and had all of 18 ****ing points last year?

Why is it that people think that Stralman would be a main piece of the deal, but when Boston gets mentioned, McAvoy has to be in the deal? If I am OTT and they offer Stralman, I laugh.

If it’s true that McAvoy would have to be in any deal for EK to Boston, then you can bet they are going to be asking for Sergachev from TB.

I forgot Stralman had a NTC which likely means he won't waive to go to Ottawa, but my line of reasoning had more to do with Ottawa saying they want to compete next season so Colorado doesn't pick in the lottery next season.

In my opinion, Sergachev is not in the same ilk as McAvoy or Heiskanen, not yet anyways. Right now, McAvoy looks to be a top-pairing defenseman and is already close to that. Heiskanen looks to be that kind of player as well. Sergachev plays sheltered minutes. Going from Karlsson who is on the ice for close to half the game to a sheltered defenseman is not going to help Ottawa right now. Sergachev is only 20 so there is time for him to grow, but compared to McAvoy and Heiskanen, Sergachev still has a ways to go into being that all around dependable top-pairing defenseman. That is why Stralman was the 2nd/3rd piece after someone like Gourde and/or Point in that hypothetical return I made up going to Ottawa from Tampa. It doesn't seem likely Stralman will waive to go to Ottawa so moot.

 

[maxl7]

would you say you are more a fan of the way florida marlins have operated the past 15 years or prefer the way a team like st louis cardinals have tried to do it?

me say no to win one and burn it to the ground mentality... me no fan of that. but im wondering if that's what you are actually calling for?

some teams are able to rebuild on the fly... Chicago did it... absolutely... and Pittsburgh has won with 2 different mixes in the Crosby years... so yes it can be done as you say

but really... how many teams are able to win and ever get competitive again after they finally tear it down?

how has new jersey faired after they tore down their team following their trip to the finals in 2011-2012? was it 5 straight failings to make the playoffs? they required an mvp season from hall to sneak in last year... why did he win the mvp? because no one else on his team is any good... or at least that's what they said. this team could easily wander lost for the next half decade

how is Detroit doing? they were considered the number 1 organization in hockey with the very best front office. the team that could do no wrong. and now? how does their rebuild look?

the Edmonton oilers who built the most powerful team in recent history in the early 1980s have been rebuilding now for 35 years... how is that going for them?

if Edmonton wasn't the most powerful team of the 1980s it would have to be the new York islanders... what happened to them when bossey retired... Potvin got old... they moved trottier and tried to rebuild? have the been relevant in the last 30 years?

the Philadelphia flyers struck gold with their innovative approach to hockey in the mid 1970s... their own spent as much as anyone in the precap era to get another cup... and now its been 40 years for them

sure its easy to say cup or bust... its easy to say you are willing to struggle for 3-4 years to rebuild in order to get a cup...

but what is the reality of that approach?

a team like Washington.... kept trying... kept trying... kept trying... people said its a bust... break up the core... rebuild... these guys ar losers... first round exits... cant get past pittburgh…..

and what happened? the team of underachievers... the team of playoff disappointments... they won a cup... fancy that

winning the cup requires some luck. teams can get very good like Ottawa... like san jose… like st louis... like Vancouver... can win president trophies and enter the playoffs as favorites... but how many cups have these 4 teams won in the past 30 years between them?

theres no guarantee anyone wins the cup even when they have a team good enough to win

the sane way to build a team that can be entertaining... sell tickets... and maybe win the cup is a steady tried and true method. put down a foundation you can build upon... identify the core guys that can be allowed to mature together and learn how to win as a group... and then fine tune and hope your bingo number pops up next

our core is cup worthy imho. weve done a good job. now is the time for fine tuning and hoping we catch a break like we did in 2011

NJ and the Red Wings are horrible examples to use of failed "rebuilds". Firstly, they haven't even really rebuilt. NJ only started rebuilding *after* Lou went to Toronto. In those years prior he was signing over-the-hill grinders and refusing to tear it down, leading to a bad-to-mediocre team. Only after Shero got hired did they stop trying to compete and started trading players for useful assets. They're still rebuilding, but their future looks a lot brighter with the recent moves.

And Detroit...Detroit has followed the terrible Lou Lamiorello model for years. I'm not even sure if Ken Holland will still call what they're doing a rebuild. And realistically, they're still in the early stages with nothing really to show for it except for a spot of luck at getting good players that other teams left on the board.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

So you think that EDM/BOS will never make a trade together, and state is as fact, because of fan created Lucic threads? What kind of logic is that??

boston would obviously deal with Edmonton and has many many many times in this lifetime

but I doubt a team with neely as president will trade with a team that has Chiarelli as gm

will that continue for a lifetime... im not prepared to say that much. it seems a bit stupid. I mean if Chiarelli offered us McDavid for krejci or something like that neely should be fired on the spot if he blocks it

so there might come a situation that opens the trade market between Chiarelli and neely again...

but theres enough bad blood right now, I would doubt that there would be any trades between the 2 sides that weren't clear decisive monster wins for us.

I honestly don't believe Chiarelli harbors feuds againt his old teams. his MO was to get Ottawa players here in boston. I think he would be more than willing to collect bruin players he is farmilar with. im my read of the situation... this is entirely about neely and his ego... wanting to be right about cleaning house here... wanting to justify firing a cup winning gm. if Chiarelli does turn Edmonton around quickly, it will look bad for neely. I don't think neely is willing to do Chiarelli a single favor right now until we establish firmly the upper hand

on the question of lucic in particular... fans overreact quite a bit. any talk about Edmonton throwing a sweetner into a deal to move him is unfounded and uninformed. at worst lucic is still one of the top 2-3 enforcers in the league. even in his dimensioned play last year he is still a way better 'player' than ryan reeves. he is still every bit as good as tom Wilson as a 'player.'

if all lucic can do is... skate on a 3rd line and throw devastating checks and cash in for 25-30 points... he is still someone that good teams will want at 3 million dollars

oilers wont be buying him out... wont be giving up a first round pick to move him.

his agent has repeatedly said the team hasn't asked him to waive his no move... and he hasn't made any request for a trade. his agent has said lucic will be an oiler this season.

yes... fans can get all upset about it... but theres no evidence from any official source that hes even being shopped let alone they are getting desperate to move him

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

NJ and the Red Wings are horrible examples to use of failed "rebuilds". Firstly, they haven't even really rebuilt. NJ only started rebuilding *after* Lou went to Toronto. In those years prior he was signing over-the-hill grinders and refusing to tear it down, leading to a bad-to-mediocre team. Only after Shero got hired did they stop trying to compete and started trading players for useful assets. They're still rebuilding, but their future looks a lot brighter with the recent moves.

And Detroit...Detroit has followed the terrible Lou Lamiorello model for years. I'm not even sure if Ken Holland will still call what they're doing a rebuild. And realistically, they're still in the early stages with nothing really to show for it except for a spot of luck at getting good players that other teams left on the board.

you mean... they are doing a crappy job of rebuilding right? that's what you mean? that they didn't instantly become great again so their rebuild sucks?

that's like Toronto didn't rebuild for 30 years... right?

that's like the oiler rebuild only started with McDavid?

that's like florida still hasn't started their rebuild yet

Vancouver hasn't done a rebuild in almost 50 years

because if its done without any results... it never happened?

bostons rebuild for 2011... wasn't a rebuild at all. trading away bourque and thornton and letting Allison and Guerin and Dafoe go... had nothing at all to do with rebuilding. the team stayed competitive... didn't bottom out for more than a season... kept trying to make the playoffs...

there was no rebuild in boston right? because a team cant rebuild and still try to be competitive at the same time? is that what we are saying now?

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Looking around the league for a player the B’s might be able to acquire that’s more of a “win now” than a guy like Bjork, and Tyler Toffoli caught my eye.

He’s 26, mid 20 goal guy, more proven than some of the B’s youngsters, and on a decent deal ($4.6m for two more years). A right shot, RW capable of slotting right in to the B’s Top 6.

With Doughty’s $11m extension kicking in next year, the Kings have $74m on the books for only 15 players and a lot of them are older than dirt.

I wonder if the Kings would be interested in Bjork + for Toffoli?

 

[McCoy]

Karlsson is 28, but McAvoy is 20. Like you said, 3-4 more good years of Karlsson. McAvoy has another good 10-12 years, all of which is untapped upward potential. Our window doesn't need to end with Bergeron, Krejci and Rask. There is a lot more FA and drafting that will happen within those years that could easily give us a contending team without Bergeron, Rask and Krejci. We would be selling for a short term window that is entirely made up.

Bergeron will end about 5 years status in Devils my expectation with the star in 2014 and 2010 for team Canada is class team mate to Johansson in Devils!

 

[Sheppy]

Looking around the league for a player the B’s might be able to acquire that’s more of a “win now” than a guy like Bjork, and Tyler Toffoli caught my eye.

He’s 26, mid 20 goal guy, more proven than some of the B’s youngsters, and on a decent deal ($4.6m for two more years). A right shot, RW capable of slotting right in to the B’s Top 6.

With Doughty’s $11m extension kicking in next year, the Kings have $74m on the books for only 15 players and a lot of them are older than dirt.

I wonder if the Kings would be interested in Bjork + for Toffoli?

I actually like this idea quite a bit. Toffoli would be a solid addition...

 

[LouJersey]

NJ and the Red Wings are horrible examples to use of failed "rebuilds". Firstly, they haven't even really rebuilt. NJ only started rebuilding *after* Lou went to Toronto. In those years prior he was signing over-the-hill grinders and refusing to tear it down, leading to a bad-to-mediocre team. Only after Shero got hired did they stop trying to compete and started trading players for useful assets. They're still rebuilding, but their future looks a lot brighter with the recent moves.

And Detroit...Detroit has followed the terrible Lou Lamiorello model for years. I'm not even sure if Ken Holland will still call what they're doing a rebuild. And realistically, they're still in the early stages with nothing really to show for it except for a spot of luck at getting good players that other teams left on the board.

Great post. Two terrible cap managing GM's.