Speculation: Alex Pietrangelo Megathread II

[TruBlu]

With the 10% cushion they could afford to give Petro 10m per. I don't think he'll get that much so they actually do have room to sign him right now without making a move first.

Even if they were able to sign him under the 10% (which they currently can't, they still need to drop some according to what has been reportedly offered) Do you want to be the team sitting 8 mil over the cap with every other team in the league knowing you have to drop cap quickly to be in compliance? Hell, even this free agency season we are seeing teams that actually have cap space less reluctant to take on other teams' cap because of the revenue uncertainty. That's a sure fire way to get yourself fired if you're a gm, imo.

 

[robertocarlos]

Yeah, in Overland or off of Chippewa.

If he signs a half decent contract he won't have to live in any of those areas.

He should sign with the Blues and both sides can just admit mistakes were made but they got it right in the end.

 

[The Duck Knight]

Even if they were able to sign him under the 10% (which they currently can't, they still need to drop some according to what has been reportedly offered) Do you want to be the team sitting 8 mil over the cap with every other team in the league knowing you have to drop cap quickly to be in compliance? Hell, even this free agency season we are seeing teams that actually have cap space less reluctant to take on other teams' cap because of the revenue uncertainty. That's a sure fire way to get yourself fired if you're a gm, imo.

They currently can sign him under the 10% cushion. They're at 79m. The 10% cushion would allow them to go to 89m. There is no way they are trading Schmidt before Petro is a done deal. It would literally be career suicide for Kelly Mcrimmon to trade his only top pair D and then not have anything to show for it.

 

[robertocarlos]

I think the most he can sign for in Vegas is $6.7 million and then Vegas is at 10% over cap. Not good. So Vegas needs to clear cap but they are having a hard time for various reasons. There's probably a lack of trust and the possibility of changes of heart.
If Vegas goes over the cap by 10% the vultures will rip them to shreds.

 

[robertocarlos]

They currently can sign him under the 10% cushion. They're at 79m. The 10% cushion would allow them to go to 89m. There is no way they are trading Schmidt before Petro is a done deal. It would literally be career suicide for Kelly Mcrimmon to trade his only top pair D and then not have anything to show for it.

I made the mistake of looking at STL cap being over.
You are right the Vegas GK can sign him now but them Vegas is still in troubles.

 

[WeWentBlues]

They currently can sign him under the 10% cushion. They're at 79m. The 10% cushion would allow them to go to 89m. There is no way they are trading Schmidt before Petro is a done deal. It would literally be career suicide for Kelly Mcrimmon to trade his only top pair D and then not have anything to show for it.

I think the most he can sign for in Vegas is $6.7 million and then Vegas is at 10% over cap. Not good. So Vegas needs to clear cap but they are having a hard time for various reasons. There's probably a lack of trust and the possibility of changes of heart.
If Vegas goes over the cap by 10% the vultures will rip them to shreds.

The 6.7M would explain why there is a holdup but CapFriendly indicates they have quite a bit more than 6.7M if you account for the 10% so I'm not sure which is right.

 

[TruBlu]

They currently can sign him under the 10% cushion. They're at 79m. The 10% cushion would allow them to go to 89m. There is no way they are trading Schmidt before Petro is a done deal. It would literally be career suicide for Kelly Mcrimmon to trade his only top pair D and then not have anything to show for it.

Kind of a catch 22 if you ask me. No wonder a deal isn't done yet.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

They currently can sign him under the 10% cushion. They're at 79m. The 10% cushion would allow them to go to 89m. There is no way they are trading Schmidt before Petro is a done deal. It would literally be career suicide for Kelly Mcrimmon to trade his only top pair D and then not have anything to show for it.

I’ve read that teams have to cover ALL their contracts in the offseason by that 10% number, not just a 23 man roster. I think this is the distinction, and the reason Pietro maybe cant sign the offer until after the trade. It’s pretty obvious from the responses I’ve received, people here are confused by how this works too.

 

[BlueKnight]

I honestly think Pietrangelo is having second thoughts and wants to stay in St. Louis. That's why a deal with Vegas hasn't been done yet.

 

[DropTheGloves]

I’ve read that teams have to cover ALL their contracts in the offseason by that 10% number, not just a 23 man roster. I think this is the distinction, and the reason Pietro maybe cant sign the offer until after the trade. It’s pretty obvious from the responses I’ve received, people here are confused by how this works too.

Yes that’s my understanding too, you can’t just pick and choose which contracts when talking the overage.

 

[Team Cozens]

I honestly think Pietrangelo is having second thoughts and wants to stay in St. Louis. That's why a deal with Vegas hasn't been done yet.

Second thoughts..... Leafs.

 

[WeWentBlues]

I’ve read that teams have to cover ALL their contracts in the offseason by that 10% number, not just a 23 man roster. I think this is the distinction, and the reason Pietro maybe cant sign the offer until after the trade. It’s pretty obvious from the responses I’ve received, people here are confused by how this works too.

Ahhhhhhh there's the kicker.

 

[The Duck Knight]

I’ve read that teams have to cover ALL their contracts in the offseason by that 10% number, not just a 23 man roster. I think this is the distinction, and the reason Pietro maybe cant sign the offer until after the trade. It’s pretty obvious from the responses I’ve received, people here are confused by how this works too.

There's no way that it could be ALL players as everyone outside of Ottawa would already be over the cushion.

 

[WeWentBlues]

In the offseason, there is no Active Roster or 23-man limit, so the CBA defines a system of cap hits that count towards the cap. Those are: All players on one-way contracts, regardless of where they have played the prior season; all players on two-way contracts, prorated by the number of days in the NHL, the qualifying offers given to all RFAs, prorated or not depending on one-way or two-way status; and then all the rest of the things like retained salary. That total has to be below next season’s cap ceiling plus a 10% cushion.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

It's all how it is phrased though. By presenting it in a "we are doing this for you" way, you make a pretty solid case. Next year the Blues will have a good amount of money drop off the books, the expansion draft is going to make it possible to clear more (ex Faulk), and if you still don't like the offer we make you, the FA market should be significantly better then it is currently. You can use Taylor Hall as an example. Not saying I'm in the mind of Armstrong, but that would be how I pitch it. What do you have to lose?

Supposedly (according to some fans) Pat Maroon did exactly this: take a 1-year, $1.75M deal with the Blues that was below market value, but helped them with the cap with the promise that he'd get an extension that would make up for it. A year later, despite being a key role player on that Cup run with a 2OT goal in Game 7 vs. Dallas that will live forever in the memories of Blues fans, he played on a $900K contract in Tampa. (Where he won the Cup again, so ... he's probably not terribly upset about how that went.)

Not to mention, that "good amount of money drop[ping] off the books" is going to get plowed back into several of those same players and potentially used on younger players who now need more expensive contracts that what they currently have. It's really easy to picture AP getting promises of more money a couple years out, then watch teammates get extended again before him and then get told "oops, sorry - not much money left. Oh, and you're 2 years older now and starting on the downward slide of your career, no way in hell we're giving you $8M per much less more than that to make up for the great bargain you gave us. If you don't like it, go f*** off."

The point being: any verbal promise is like a clean baby diaper in a room of a dozen toddlers. It can be shit on at any time.

 

[Romang67]

Get on with it!

 

[robertocarlos]

Now that we know the rules maybe the poster who claimed that Vegas can only offer $6.7 million knows what he is talking about and that is a chicken egg problem as Vegas can't sign AP until Schmidt is traded and Schmidt can't be traded until AP is signed. Or it's catch 22.

 

[EastonBlues22]

If he signs a half decent contract he won't have to live in any of those areas.

He should sign with the Blues and both sides can just admit mistakes were made but they got it right in the end.

He already lives in St. Louis, and something tells me he isn't renting.

 

[BlueKnight]

Could this prevent Petro from signing there.

 

[bluesfan94]

He already lives in St. Louis, and something tells me he isn't renting.

He isn't.

 

[DropTheGloves]

Could this prevent Petro from signing there.

I wouldn’t think so, but it just adds even more awkwardness to the whole thing.

 

[hellvetet]

I don't get why Vegas should be scared of trading Schmidt if AP really wants to sign a deal. VGK and AP just sign a binding prelim contract that is conditional to VGK trading Schmidt or whoever. As soon as the conditions are met, the parties are obligated to advance into signing the actual contract.

Or is there something in the CBA that prohibits such contract structures?

 

[jimmythemick]

Supposedly (according to some fans) Pat Maroon did exactly this: take a 1-year, $1.75M deal with the Blues that was below market value, but helped them with the cap with the promise that he'd get an extension that would make up for it. A year later, despite being a key role player on that Cup run with a 2OT goal in Game 7 vs. Dallas that will live forever in the memories of Blues fans, he played on a $900K contract in Tampa. (Where he won the Cup again, so ... he's probably not terribly upset about how that went.)

Not to mention, that "good amount of money drop[ping] off the books" is going to get plowed back into several of those same players and potentially used on younger players who now need more expensive contracts that what they currently have. It's really easy to picture AP getting promises of more money a couple years out, then watch teammates get extended again before him and then get told "oops, sorry - not much money left. Oh, and you're 2 years older now and starting on the downward slide of your career, no way in hell we're giving you $8M per much less more than that to make up for the great bargain you gave us. If you don't like it, go f*** off."

The point being: any verbal promise is like a clean baby diaper in a room of a dozen toddlers. It can be shit on at any time.

The big money is Steen and Bozak coming off next year, I doubt they will be resigned as Steen is getting old and breaking down and Bozak is taking a spot from some of the younger talent. Its completely feasible to see a deal like this working as it clears up over $10 mill which leaves room to sign Petro, give Schwartz and Binnington an deal, with money left over from Gunnarsson to take care of Thomas and Barbashev. It can work, Petro just has to be open to it.

I also wouldn't consider the Maroon situation the same, as they aren't the same caliber of player.

 

[BlueKnight]

I wouldn’t think so, but it just adds even more awkwardness to the whole thing.

I hope Pietrangelo doesn't sign there. After a couple of years the new shiny toy(Pietrangelo) will get kicked to the curb.

 

[robertocarlos]

Renting can save you money if you are frequently traded. Or you could buy a nice house and if you get traded you could rent it to another NHL player.

I bet AP stays now and the whole organization wishes this misunderstanding never happened.