Alex Ovechkin hits 700 career NHL goals!

[Zuluss]

I'm not saying that Ovy wouldn't score his 700 goals in the 80s. I'm saying he wouldn't have scored a 1000, like many people here suggest.

1000 seems a bit of a stretch, but 900+ would be a very reasonable forecast.

For example: between 1975 and 1990, #5 in goals averaged 51.5 goals. Over his career, Ovechkin led #5 in goals, on average, by 19.2% (that includes his 30-goal seasons too). So, if Ovechkin played in 1975-1990 and maintained the same margin over peers, he would have had, after 15 seasons, 15*51.5*1.192=921 goals.

Going off margins over #10 (44.8, on average, between 1975-1990) and Ovechkin's career average lead over #10 (32.5%), we can similarly peg him at 15*44.8*1.325=891 career goals in the high-scoring environment of 1975-1990.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Reading comprehension 101.

Go back and read what I responded to - or, better yet, read it here yourself since I've quoted (and now bolded) the relevant pieces:

To those who say that Ovy would score 100+ goals in the 80s... did you see his last goal? Do you think Denis Potvin, Larry Robinson, or Scott Stevens would let him stand in front of the net like that? He'd be on his ass in the matter of seconds.

Majority of Ovy's and Hull's goals: yes. But this one was scored from the slot. This is Esposito's and Cicarelli's specialty. I'm not saying that Ovy wouldn't score his 700 goals in the 80s. I'm saying he wouldn't have scored a 1000, like many people here suggest.

But since you're apparently upset about me not responding to the "wouldn't have scored a 1000" part: if you seriously think Ovechkin wouldn't be sniffing 1000 goals shooting against the 1980s "quality" of goaltending skill, tactics in playing in net and the size of goaltending equipment and padding worn, you're intentionally ignoring significant improvements in goaltending over the last 35 years - AND, you're implicitly arguing that Gretzky/Lemieux would be piling up largely the same points in today's game that they did 30-40 years ago (which might be an even worse point to try and make).

 

[The Roy Of Ottawa]

703

 

[The Roy Of Ottawa]

6 more goals to surpass Mike Gartner!

 

[HurricaneFanatic]

Scoring is up defintely from the 90's and early 2000's, but this is still unreal stuff.

You have to think at some point he will slow down, but showing zero signs of it so far.

at 34, he's old for a hockey player, defining age for sure. haha

 

[The Roy Of Ottawa]

705

 

[HurricaneFanatic]

705

uhhggg

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

I believe he has tied the record for Age 34 players, IIRC.

Messier had 47 goals, I believe.

 

[Khomutov]

34 goals at ES. Most for him since 2009-10.

 

[Trinstin]

What a beast Ovechkin is. Best goal scorer of all time and while it is close, it won't be disputed when he passes up the great one.

 

[Sentinel]

But since you're apparently upset about me not responding to the "wouldn't have scored a 1000" part: if you seriously think Ovechkin wouldn't be sniffing 1000 goals shooting against the 1980s "quality" of goaltending skill, tactics in playing in net and the size of goaltending equipment and padding worn, you're intentionally ignoring significant improvements in goaltending over the last 35 years - AND, you're implicitly arguing that Gretzky/Lemieux would be piling up largely the same points in today's game that they did 30-40 years ago (which might be an even worse point to try and make).

No and yes. No, Ovy would not be sniffing 1000 goals with a wooden stick, gear, and 80s assassins waiting to take his head off. Yes, Gretzky and Lemieux, with better equipment, no red line, and no need for bodyguards on their lines would torch this "system" league like dry plywood. There are no goalies in today's NHL on the level of Smith, let alone Roy, and no defensemen on the level of Potvin, Howe, and Bourque.

 

[EichHart]

No and yes. No, Ovy would not be sniffing 1000 goals with a wooden stick, gear, and 80s assassins waiting to take his head off. Yes, Gretzky and Lemieux, with better equipment, no red line, and no need for bodyguards on their lines would torch this "system" league like dry plywood. There are no goalies in today's NHL on the level of Smith, let alone Roy, and no defensemen on the level of Potvin, Howe, and Bourque.

You can't be serious. Did you see the goalies of the 80s? LOL

 

[Sentinel]

You can't be serious. Did you see the goalies of the 80s? LOL

Gretzky had the most accurate slapshot in the world. With today's goalies dropping to their knees as soon as opposing forward enters the zone, he would torch them like no tomorrow. The "LOL" is on you.

Remember Teemu Selanne? 37 y.o. post-injury Selanne scored 48 goals in the post-lockout League! He scored two more goals than Ovechkin that year. And yet his peak number in 1992-93 (76 goals) were still short of peak Gretzky and Lemieux.

 

[Andon]

I believe he has tied the record for Age 34 players, IIRC.

Messier had 47 goals, I believe.

Seems so:
34-Year Old NHL Players - Regular Season Stats
You can also check the records for age 35 onwards by setting that parameter.

 

[GreatGonzo]

No and yes. No, Ovy would not be sniffing 1000 goals with a wooden stick, gear, and 80s assassins waiting to take his head off. Yes, Gretzky and Lemieux, with better equipment, no red line, and no need for bodyguards on their lines would torch this "system" league like dry plywood. There are no goalies in today's NHL on the level of Smith, let alone Roy, and no defensemen on the level of Potvin, Howe, and Bourque.

The average defenseman and goalie is significantly better than they were in the 80s. Sure the level of star power is lower these days, but not every defenseman was Roy and not every defenseman was as good a hitter as Potvin, or as lethal on both ends like Bourque and Howe. The average goalie was mediocre at best while the average defenseman wasn’t nearly as effective. They didn’t really have systems either, and the overall talent pool was more shallow.

Ovechkin is also 6’3 and 230 pounds. And is a physical force. He would do just fine in that era. He also has a very powerful and pretty accurate shot.

 

[Boxscore]

When discussing names like Gretzky, Lemieux and Ovechkin--I think it's safe to say that all three of these men are all-time greats and would have succeeded in any era. Selling any of them short is disrespecting their talent.

In the 90's, Ovechkin would have been a combo of Pavel Bure and Keith Tkachuk--both were high-end goal scorers of their era--and he would have been better than either of them individually. I fully believe that.

However, I also agree with @Sentinel in the fact that Ovechkin would have paid a heavier, physical price to score his goals back then. Due to his style of play, Ovie would likely have been in the middle of feuds the same way players like Lindros and Neely were. Yes, Ovechkin is a machine. But also yes--he does NOT need to engage in hand-to-hand combat on the ice today with madmen like Scott Stevens, Ken Daneyko, Bryan Marchment, Ulf Samuelsson, Derian Hatcher and Darius Kasparaitis. Those guys were featured on MOST WANTED posters but there were also less-popular assassins-for-hire that would have had no problem targeting Ovie's knees back then--guys like Michel Petit, Rich Pilon and Igor Ulanov.

Case in point--last week they asked Chris Pronger--"what would have happened if William Nylander scored a goal between his legs in the crease while you were on the ice?" He said, without holding back, that he would have slashed him between the glove and elbow pad--getting all bone and meat to take him out. If he tried it a second time, he said that he would have been on the IR. This was the mentality back then.

One thing is 1,000% indisputable--scoring goals in today's NHL is far less physically taxing on the human body than it was in the 80s and 90s. How would that have affected Ovechkin, per se? We'll never know for sure. Logic says he would "likely" have missed more time. That said, he would still have been an elite goal scorer when healthy--nothing can disprove that IMO.

I also agree with @Sentinel that Wayne and Mario would put today's NHL through a shredder. Mario literally had to score goals while fighting through defenseman hanging on his back. What do you think he would do in an era where there is no red line and you can't even put a hollow stick on a guy? Does anyone truly think the Fredrik Andersen's of the world are going to shut down a prime Mario Lemieux?? Lol. Mario--even more than Gretzky IMO--would toy with the league today. Look at what a big-bodied Leon Draisaitl is doing to the league right now--and this guy couldn't touch Mario on his best day. Prime Lemieux would put up 145-160 today. Mario in 3-on-3 OT? Jesus.

All of that said, what Ovechkin has done--and continues to do--is insane. I have my money on him breaking 894, which would officially make him an NHL demigod.

 

[Acallabeth]

Gretzky had the most accurate slapshot in the world. With today's goalies dropping to their knees as soon as opposing forward enters the zone, he would torch them like no tomorrow. The "LOL" is on you.

I don't know. Wayno doesn't agree with you:



Why didn't he torch goalies in the 90s, again?
Also, omg does Grezky look ancient in this vid.

 

[Leksand]

Gretzky had the most accurate slapshot in the world. With today's goalies dropping to their knees as soon as opposing forward enters the zone, he would torch them like no tomorrow. The "LOL" is on you.

Remember Teemu Selanne? 37 y.o. post-injury Selanne scored 48 goals in the post-lockout League! He scored two more goals than Ovechkin that year. And yet his peak number in 1992-93 (76 goals) were still short of peak Gretzky and Lemieux.

92-93 is not in the 80s and Selänne was ahead of Gretzky and Lemieux that year.

 

[Leksand]

No and yes. No, Ovy would not be sniffing 1000 goals with a wooden stick, gear, and 80s assassins waiting to take his head off. Yes, Gretzky and Lemieux, with better equipment, no red line, and no need for bodyguards on their lines would torch this "system" league like dry plywood. There are no goalies in today's NHL on the level of Smith, let alone Roy, and no defensemen on the level of Potvin, Howe, and Bourque.

That kind of name dropping is just completely unconvincing. There are no Smiths today, Gretzky and Lemieux are better goal scorers than Ovechkin! It may be true, we will never know, but those name listing arguments won’t do it.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Of all the players to pick on for durability, Ovechkin should be somewhere around second to last on your list, after the great Gordie Howe.

 

[AD1066]

No and yes. No, Ovy would not be sniffing 1000 goals with a wooden stick, gear, and 80s assassins waiting to take his head off. Yes, Gretzky and Lemieux, with better equipment, no red line, and no need for bodyguards on their lines would torch this "system" league like dry plywood. There are no goalies in today's NHL on the level of Smith, let alone Roy, and no defensemen on the level of Potvin, Howe, and Bourque.

This is a flawed argument and has been addressed many times before. Regardless of how talented someone like Roy was, advancements in goaltending equipment and techniques have made it so that the average goalie today is more likely to stop any given shot than Patrick Roy at his best. It doesn't make them "better", but they are harder to score on. Subjective appeals to things like "80s assassins" don't change the fact that we have hard statistical evidence from both eras that it was substantially easier for every player to put the puck in the net back then, regardless of your perceived greatness of the defensemen and goalies of that era.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

When discussing names like Gretzky, Lemieux and Ovechkin--I think it's safe to say that all three of these men are all-time greats and would have succeeded in any era. Selling any of them short is disrespecting their talent.

In the 90's, Ovechkin would have been a combo of Pavel Bure and Keith Tkachuk--both were high-end goal scorers of their era--and he would have been better than either of them individually. I fully believe that.

However, I also agree with @Sentinel in the fact that Ovechkin would have paid a heavier, physical price to score his goals back then. Due to his style of play, Ovie would likely have been in the middle of feuds the same way players like Lindros and Neely were. Yes, Ovechkin is a machine. But also yes--he does NOT need to engage in hand-to-hand combat on the ice today with madmen like Scott Stevens, Ken Daneyko, Bryan Marchment, Ulf Samuelsson, Derian Hatcher and Darius Kasparaitis. Those guys were featured on MOST WANTED posters but there were also less-popular assassins-for-hire that would have had no problem targeting Ovie's knees back then--guys like Michel Petit, Rich Pilon and Igor Ulanov.

Case in point--last week they asked Chris Pronger--"what would have happened if William Nylander scored a goal between his legs in the crease while you were on the ice?" He said, without holding back, that he would have slashed him between the glove and elbow pad--getting all bone and meat to take him out. If he tried it a second time, he said that he would have been on the IR. This was the mentality back then.

One thing is 1,000% indisputable--scoring goals in today's NHL is far less physically taxing on the human body than it was in the 80s and 90s. How would that have affected Ovechkin, per se? We'll never know for sure. Logic says he would "likely" have missed more time. That said, he would still have been an elite goal scorer when healthy--nothing can disprove that IMO.

I also agree with @Sentinel that Wayne and Mario would put today's NHL through a shredder. Mario literally had to score goals while fighting through defenseman hanging on his back. What do you think he would do in an era where there is no red line and you can't even put a hollow stick on a guy? Does anyone truly think the Fredrik Andersen's of the world are going to shut down a prime Mario Lemieux?? Lol. Mario--even more than Gretzky IMO--would toy with the league today. Look at what a big-bodied Leon Draisaitl is doing to the league right now--and this guy couldn't touch Mario on his best day. Prime Lemieux would put up 145-160 today. Mario in 3-on-3 OT? Jesus.

All of that said, what Ovechkin has done--and continues to do--is insane. I have my money on him breaking 894, which would officially make him an NHL demigod.

Good points, and I agree that people should just appreciate talent more than we do. Team or era allegiances aside, if you're a fan of hockey you should be a fan of greatness because it's rare to see some of these guys make fellow professionals look like beer leaguers.

That said, to your point about physicality, Ovi is 6'3" and 240 pounds... so the punishment would have gone both ways. Ovechkin is a mack truck and can also throw hands. He's missed about 15 games his entire career due to injury. Simply put, the dude is a mutant. An angry Ovi is the best Ovi.

Also, especially in the 80's but somewhat in the 90's as well, teams carried players on their rosters whose entire job was to ensure the stars could be stars. The depth of the league was much worse so plugs earned spots simply to be deterrents which is not the case today.

 

[Old Gregg]

Ovechkin of today dropped in the 80's would destroy everyone but who knows what Ovechkin would do if he was brought up like those players were. No personal trainers, not much for offseason training, no dieting, wooden sticks, old skates, old equipment. Sure he is 6'-3" 230 but would he be that heavy back in the 80's?

 

[Strangle]

No and yes. No, Ovy would not be sniffing 1000 goals with a wooden stick, gear, and 80s assassins waiting to take his head off. Yes, Gretzky and Lemieux, with better equipment, no red line, and no need for bodyguards on their lines would torch this "system" league like dry plywood. There are no goalies in today's NHL on the level of Smith, let alone Roy, and no defensemen on the level of Potvin, Howe, and Bourque.

The fact people don’t understand this should shock me, but it doesn’t. It’s hard to understand something you didn’t see for yourself.

The fact that scoring in the NHL jumped immediately by a half a goal per game when Gretzky entered the league, then declined rapidly as he did until it hit rock bottom when he retired is totally lost on people.

Gretzky changed the league, and left a massive hole that players haven’t been able to fill yet. The league is only starting to adjust now with multiple rule changes to increase scoring. Gretzky or Lemieux without a redline would torch the league today. Can you imagine these two guys with the room to skate freely today? Goals would be over 4.0 again or very close to it.

 

[The Roy Of Ottawa]

Yes or no? Will Ovechkin surpass Esposito (717) by the end of this season? 5 weeks, 15 games left. 13 more goals needed.