Player Discussion: Alex Killorn

[Master P]

Answer these questions ?
will Steve Stamkos be in the nhl hall of fame ?

will Alex killorn be in the nhl hall of fame ?

 

[Sky04]

Answer these questions ?
will Steve Stamkos be in the nhl hall of fame ?

will Alex killorn be in the nhl hall of fame ?

You're right we should trade Brayden Point to keep Steven Stamkos too. Good logic.

Will Sergachev be in the hall of fame? Nope better trade him to keep Stamkos too.

Is Hagel going to be in the hall of fame? Nope better prioritze Stamkos over him next year.

 

[Todd1a]

You're right we should trade Brayden Point to keep Steven Stamkos too. Good logic.

Will Sergachev be in the hall of fame? Nope better trade him to keep Stamkos too.

Is Hagel going to be in the hall of fame? Nope better prioritze Stamkos over him next year.

I’m just saying I’d keep Stamkos over killorn

 

[Byrddog]

I’m just saying I’d keep Stamkos over killorn

You keep the one that is most productive that you can fit in under the cap. Currently you can not pay for potential only. That’s why windows close and you You rebuild by age group also that’s why Marty and Vinny moved on because the team was building for a future where they would be retired before the team was competitive. They wanted another chance . Look at Ray Bourque who moved in his last year to win a cup. Look at Corey Perry who has moved and moved to be in a position to win another cup. The problem becomes putting the right pieces together to peak together . Since the cap was installed there have really been only three teams that built teams that could have mutiple years as cup favorites. Pittsburgh, Chicago and the Bolts. The next teams could be the Devils and Buffalo they are nearing their windows. The wanna be teams are those like Dallas, St Louis, Edmonton and Toronto who are always looking for the next big thing.

Youth is not always the answer . Youth take patience this core is still in there prime the thing is there is too much invested in too few to complete the roster. Young players are the last thing this group needs. As good as Perbix and Rayddish are they are not at the level the core needs them to be. But they’re cheap that’s why they have spots. They are our best dirty shirt to wear. They will get there in three or four years. Until a big salary is moved there is just no answer 4 mil used to be a big salary in this league now it’s 9-10 or 11. With the current room moving 6 or 7 mil would allow probably 3 guys to be signed in the 4 mil Killer level contract area. It’s a reasonable amount for someone chasing a cup. Heck look what Perry took and Bogo even Paul who if used right could be a part of a run but stick him with Maroon and name a winger he’s just not going to produce like he did with Killer and Stammer. Those are the cost controlled guys needed .

 

[Todd1a]

You keep the one that is most productive that you can fit in under the cap. Currently you can not pay for potential only. That’s why windows close and you You rebuild by age group also that’s why Marty and Vinny moved on because the team was building for a future where they would be retired before the team was competitive. They wanted another chance . Look at Ray Bourque who moved in his last year to win a cup. Look at Corey Perry who has moved and moved to be in a position to win another cup. The problem becomes putting the right pieces together to peak together . Since the cap was installed there have really been only three teams that built teams that could have mutiple years as cup favorites. Pittsburgh, Chicago and the Bolts. The next teams could be the Devils and Buffalo they are nearing their windows. The wanna be teams are those like Dallas, St Louis, Edmonton and Toronto who are always looking for the next big thing.

Youth is not always the answer . Youth take patience this core is still in there prime the thing is there is too much invested in too few to complete the roster. Young players are the last thing this group needs. As good as Perbix and Rayddish are they are not at the level the core needs them to be. But they’re cheap that’s why they have spots. They are our best dirty shirt to wear. They will get there in three or four years. Until a big salary is moved there is just no answer 4 mil used to be a big salary in this league now it’s 9-10 or 11. With the current room moving 6 or 7 mil would allow probably 3 guys to be signed in the 4 mil Killer level contract area. It’s a reasonable amount for someone chasing a cup. Heck look what Perry took and Bogo even Paul who if used right could be a part of a run but stick him with Maroon and name a winger he’s just not going to produce like he did with Killer and Stammer. Those are the cost controlled guys needed .

The problem is where are you low cost guys you drafted? Perbix and Colton are the only two that come to mind ?

Nothing has made the club from the 2018 draft ? Or 2019 draft ? Or the 2020 draft ? We haven’t been drafting well the last say 4 years what player have we drafted in the last 5 years that’s made it full time to the nhl ? Probably just perbix ?

 

[LTIR Trickery]

You keep the one that is most productive that you can fit in under the cap. Currently you can not pay for potential only. That’s why windows close and you You rebuild by age group also that’s why Marty and Vinny moved on because the team was building for a future where they would be retired before the team was competitive. They wanted another chance . Look at Ray Bourque who moved in his last year to win a cup. Look at Corey Perry who has moved and moved to be in a position to win another cup. The problem becomes putting the right pieces together to peak together . Since the cap was installed there have really been only three teams that built teams that could have mutiple years as cup favorites. Pittsburgh, Chicago and the Bolts. The next teams could be the Devils and Buffalo they are nearing their windows. The wanna be teams are those like Dallas, St Louis, Edmonton and Toronto who are always looking for the next big thing.

Youth is not always the answer . Youth take patience this core is still in there prime the thing is there is too much invested in too few to complete the roster. Young players are the last thing this group needs. As good as Perbix and Rayddish are they are not at the level the core needs them to be. But they’re cheap that’s why they have spots. They are our best dirty shirt to wear. They will get there in three or four years. Until a big salary is moved there is just no answer 4 mil used to be a big salary in this league now it’s 9-10 or 11. With the current room moving 6 or 7 mil would allow probably 3 guys to be signed in the 4 mil Killer level contract area. It’s a reasonable amount for someone chasing a cup. Heck look what Perry took and Bogo even Paul who if used right could be a part of a run but stick him with Maroon and name a winger he’s just not going to produce like he did with Killer and Stammer. Those are the cost controlled guys needed .

That is 100% not at all why either Marty nor Vinny left, where do you guys get this stuff?
Vinny was bought out because they didn't want to pay him that term. Marty left because he asked his way out due to a handful of reasons, some public some not.

 

[Todd1a]

That is 100% not at all why either Marty nor Vinny left, where do you guys get this stuff?
Vinny was bought out because they didn't want to pay him that term. Marty left because he asked his way out due to a handful of reasons, some public some not.

That is 100% not at all why either Marty nor Vinny left, where do you guys get this stuff?
Vinny was bought out because they didn't want to pay him that term. Marty left because he asked his way out due to a handful of reasons, some public some not.

Yep 100 percent agree

 

[The Gongshow]

Wait...are...people actually wanting to keep Killorn...over Stamkos

This sub man, the takes here are always so wild

 

[Todd1a]

Wait...are...people actually wanting to keep Killorn...over Stamkos

This sub man, the takes here are always so wild

Yes lol it’s nuts

 

[Byrddog]

The problem is where are you low cost guys you drafted? Perbix and Colton are the only two that come to mind ?

Nothing has made the club from the 2018 draft ? Or 2019 draft ? Or the 2020 draft ? We haven’t been drafting well the last say 4 years what player have we drafted in the last 5 years that’s made it full time to the nhl ? Probably just perbix ?

There is a reason for that. When you draft outside of 10 you’re taking on project players . Yes
Yes I know where Pount and Kuch were drafted and that Yanni and Johnson were undrafted. But find other teams that have drafted mid pack that have had success t the l bel this team has had the last 6 years. With the exception of the season just ended they were cup ready. Colton and Perbix are not even is considered A prospects. There is just nothing in the system right now that is top 6 ready. Or for that matter top 6 material. Since 18 the draft picks have been meh at best. No as to buying out Vinny yep they sure did but he went to a bubble playoff team in Philly where he thought he could have snother chance the the Kings same situation and that’s where his game collapsed. Marty went to the Rangers who at the time was more competitive for a cup run than the Bolts were . Actually the bolts were 3 years from being cup ready at the time. And to be honest the team is headed right back to that situation. This is a good core but aging and the current roster is not the favorite , it’s too 10 yes but each of the last three years pieces have been removed. Remember that young Stamkos with Vinny and Marty and Khabibulin. They had depth players behind them to win that cup and they just floundered for 10 years Marty and Vinny did take there last shit with other teams that had a chance Marty had the better chance than Vinny . Both were out of hockey in 17 when this team was really ready to make some noise. Now things are looking similar with the exception that they have held on to a goalie this time.

To be honest I’m starting to think there is nothing that JBB can do to prevent the core from aging out

 

[Todd1a]

There is a reason for that. When you draft outside of 10 you’re taking on project players . Yes
Yes I know where Pount and Kuch were drafted and that Yanni and Johnson were undrafted. But find other teams that have drafted mid pack that have had success t the l bel this team has had the last 6 years. With the exception of the season just ended they were cup ready. Colton and Perbix are not even is considered A prospects. There is just nothing in the system right now that is top 6 ready. Or for that matter top 6 material. Since 18 the draft picks have been meh at best. No as to buying out Vinny yep they sure did but he went to a bubble playoff team in Philly where he thought he could have snother chance the the Kings same situation and that’s where his game collapsed. Marty went to the Rangers who at the time was more competitive for a cup run than the Bolts were . Actually the bolts were 3 years from being cup ready at the time. And to be honest the team is headed right back to that situation. This is a good core but aging and the current roster is not the favorite , it’s too 10 yes but each of the last three years pieces have been removed. Remember that young Stamkos with Vinny and Marty and Khabibulin. They had depth players behind them to win that cup and they just floundered for 10 years Marty and Vinny did take there last shit with other teams that had a chance Marty had the better chance than Vinny . Both were out of hockey in 17 when this team was really ready to make some noise. Now things are looking similar with the exception that they have held on to a goalie this time.

To be honest I’m starting to think there is nothing that JBB can do to prevent the core from aging out

Yep our drafts from 2017 till 2023 have flat out just been bad! I mean not even 1 of those years we couldn’t hit on any top six forwards or 1 top 4 defenseman we just flat out drafted nothing.

 

[Byrddog]

Yep our drafts from 2017 till 2023 have flat out just been bad! I mean not even 1 of those years we couldn’t hit on any top six forwards or 1 top 4 defenseman we just flat out drafted nothing.

The draft is always a crap shoot. There is an article in Bolts by the bay indicating that they should resign Killer before doing anything with Jeanott. I wonder what ownerships reaction is to that? Has JBB been brought in on the carpet .

 

[DMB06]

It's crazy that we drafted 5 Hall of Fame players in Stamkos, Kuch, Hedman, and Vasy/Point who are trending in that direction.....and then afterwards we've been pretty bad.

Did we just get lucky or did we change something about how we approach the draft. Guess we'll never know.

 

[Sky04]

It's crazy that we drafted 5 Hall of Fame players in Stamkos, Kuch, Hedman, and Vasy/Point who are trending in that direction.....and then afterwards we've been pretty bad.

Did we just get lucky or did we change something about how we approach the draft. Guess we'll never know.

Yeah cause every team drafts 6 hall of famers in 8 years.

 

[Stammertime91]

It's crazy that we drafted 5 Hall of Fame players in Stamkos, Kuch, Hedman, and Vasy/Point who are trending in that direction.....and then afterwards we've been pretty bad.

Did we just get lucky or did we change something about how we approach the draft. Guess we'll never know.

More so the fact that you just don't draft that many, ever. I think Vinik has a lot of credit here. Instilled a winning culture and took us in a different direction. The Yzerman Era and the completion under JBB probably won't ever be matched in Tampa again. One of the best decades for a hockey club you could ever ask for. Especially today...

I don't think much changed. We've still produced NHL players even if they didn't stay with us. Players come, they go. We'd have a lot of bottom 6 depth if the cap wasn't an issue.

 

[DMB06]

Yeah cause every team drafts 6 hall of famers in 8 years.

I didn't mean the expectation was to keep drafting hall of famers.

The point, to those with an IQ above 3, was that we went from consistently drafting great players (and many good role players) to drafting very few NHL caliber players. The contrast seems to be outside of the usual "the draft is a crapshoot" mantra. It seems to me something changed for the worst internally in how we scout and/or evaluate players.

 

[Sky04]

I didn't mean the expectation was to keep drafting hall of famers.

The point, to those with an IQ above 3, was that we went from consistently drafting great players (and many good role players) to drafting very few NHL caliber players. The contrast seems to be outside of the usual "the draft is a crapshoot" mantra. It seems to me something changed for the worst internally in how we scout and/or evaluate players.

Anyone with an IQ above 3 knows those are absolutely stupid examples to use. Stamkos was a 1st overall pick and Hedman was 2nd overall, those circumstances require being really bad and winning the lottery, have we been a lottery team in awhile? No, so why bring those up??

We got lucky with Kucherov, cool - he's a once a generation pick, you talk like we're supposed to be picking hart trophy winners every couple years from the 3rd round.

Have you been under a rock or have you not noticed the amount of young talent Tampa has been trading off to build a winning team? You do know the organization isn't in the same place they were 12 years ago when building a strong development pool was a priority right? and yet:

Brett Howden, Libor Hajek, Boris Katchouk, Taylor Raddysh, Connor Ingram, Ross Colton were our first 6 picks in 2016 draft, the skaters have at least 110+ games each. Yeah seems like our drafting team hit that one out of the park despite having to trade all of those players for win-now players or cap issues.

Tampa has constantly been pulling up players to fill out depth despite trading off a ton to be competitive. We're adding minimum 1 roster player every single year from our pool, which is excellent considering how much it's thinned out.

Since Brayden Point in 2016 Tampa has added:

2022: Nick Perbix
2021: Ross Colton, Boris Katchouk, Taylor Raddysh, Cal Foote
2020: Mitchell Stephens & Carter Verhaghe
2019: Anthony Cirelli, Matheiu Joseph, Erik Cernak
2018; Yanni Gourde

Our scouts and drafting team have had less to work with because we've been off-loading prospects and draft picks for the last 6 years to build a win-now team and despite that we're still producing in-house talent every single year, acting like we should be developing prospects at a rate a rebuilding team does while playing for the cup every year is stupid.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Also Darren Raddysh was a pretty good FA signing as well. It’s not as doom and gloom as some make it out!

 

[Crunchrulz]

Chicago Wolves may very well be the "Quiet Sleeper" that folks forget about regarding non-NHL free agents. They are independent this season and ownership has proven in the past to have very deep pockets for top AHL talent and those with potential top AHL talent. While an NHL entry level contract may sound good to most people, if you are a young player and know you are going to spend a year or two in the AHL making 55k-75k, or you can go to Chicago and start off making 100k or more while showcasing your talent against top minor league players for a potential larger first NHL contract, where are you going to go?

 

[DMB06]

Anyone with an IQ above 3 knows those are absolutely stupid examples to use. Stamkos was a 1st overall pick and Hedman was 2nd overall, those circumstances require being really bad and winning the lottery, have we been a lottery team in awhile? No, so why bring those up??

We got lucky with Kucherov, cool - he's a once a generation pick, you talk like we're supposed to be picking hart trophy winners every couple years from the 3rd round.

Have you been under a rock or have you not noticed the amount of young talent Tampa has been trading off to build a winning team? You do know the organization isn't in the same place they were 12 years ago when building a strong development pool was a priority right? and yet:

Brett Howden, Libor Hajek, Boris Katchouk, Taylor Raddysh, Connor Ingram, Ross Colton were our first 6 picks in 2016 draft, the skaters have at least 110+ games each. Yeah seems like our drafting team hit that one out of the park despite having to trade all of those players for win-now players or cap issues.

Tampa has constantly been pulling up players to fill out depth despite trading off a ton to be competitive. We're adding minimum 1 roster player every single year from our pool, which is excellent considering how much it's thinned out.

Since Brayden Point in 2016 Tampa has added:

2022: Nick Perbix
2021: Ross Colton, Boris Katchouk, Taylor Raddysh, Cal Foote
2020: Mitchell Stephens & Carter Verhaghe
2019: Anthony Cirelli, Matheiu Joseph, Erik Cernak
2018; Yanni Gourde

Our scouts and drafting team have had less to work with because we've been off-loading prospects and draft picks for the last 6 years to build a win-now team and despite that we're still producing in-house talent every single year, acting like we should be developing prospects at a rate a rebuilding team does while playing for the cup every year is stupid.

I've already posted that most of our lineup is 3rd round picks and later. You starting off your psychobabble by mentioning Stamkos and Hedman, and then saying Kuch was luck doesn't do you any favors.

Listing Cal Foote as a success story completely implodes the rest of your silly ranting. And Cernak was brought here via trade in 2017, not drafted, I have no clue what "added in 2019" is supposed to mean.

Our drafting has been shit for quite some time now, anyone who disagrees is just bored and looking for something to do until FA begins.

 

[DFC]

It's crazy that we drafted 5 Hall of Fame players in Stamkos, Kuch, Hedman, and Vasy/Point who are trending in that direction.....and then afterwards we've been pretty bad.

Did we just get lucky or did we change something about how we approach the draft. Guess we'll never know.

I think JBB just doesnt draft as well. We dont go for homerun picks as often anymore, but we have also just had a lot fewer picks to work with overall. Yzerman really liked to stockpile picks, then draft the most competitive, high IQ players in the draft. Cook them 4-5 years in the system.

We've been trading a lot of picks in recent years to maintain our NHL success. It's a necessary evil. But that, combined with, IMO, JBB being pretty average at drafting, has led to an absence of hidden gems.

 

[Todd1a]

I think JBB just doesnt draft as well. We dont go for homerun picks as often anymore, but we have also just had a lot fewer picks to work with overall. Yzerman really liked to stockpile picks, then draft the most competitive, high IQ players in the draft. Cook them 4-5 years in the system.

We've been trading a lot of picks in recent years to maintain our NHL success. It's a necessary evil. But that, combined with, IMO, JBB being pretty average at drafting, has led to an absence of hidden gems.

Yep since 2018 JBB has drafted pretty much and we have picked badly! Like 2011 we hit on palat, Kucherov and signed johnson!

2012 we hit on vasy

2014 we hit on point

2015 we hit on cirell

2016 I’ll say we did good with Colton

2017 - foote and he was bad

2018 - I see nothing

2019- I see nothing

2020- unknown still

2021-2022 unknown still

 

[DFC]

Yep since 2018 JBB has drafted pretty much and we have picked badly! Like 2011 we hit on palat, Kucherov and signed johnson!

2012 we hit on vasy

2014 we hit on point

2015 we hit on cirell

2016 I’ll say we did good with Colton

2017 - foote and he was bad

2018 - I see nothing

2019- I see nothing

2020- unknown still

2021-2022 unknown still

Even outside of those homerun picks, we drafted a lot of NHL talent that we spent in the trade market. The McDonagh deal was made possible by good drafting. And I think it's safe to say that at least one of those cups doesn't happen without McDonagh.

All I'm really saying is I don't think it's all luck, or even mostly luck. We drafted a lot more NHL players than the average team for about eight years. Maybe the most in the league.

I think JBB's strengths lie elsewhere. He's among the most creative GMs in the league for cap management, and we haven't had a legit bad contract since... Callahan? Partly because we haven't had enough money to spend unwisely, but still. And as bad as the Jeannot trade looks right now (I still have hope Jeannot can turn it around after a full camp under Cooper) I think JBB has a very strong trade record.

 

[Todd1a]

Even outside of those homerun picks, we drafted a lot of NHL talent that we spent in the trade market. The McDonagh deal was made possible by good drafting. And I think it's safe to say that at least one of those cups doesn't happen without McDonagh.

All I'm really saying is I don't think it's all luck, or even mostly luck. We drafted a lot more NHL players than the average team for about eight years. Maybe the most in the league.

I think JBB's strengths lie elsewhere. He's among the most creative GMs in the league for cap management, and we haven't had a legit bad contract since... Callahan? Partly because we haven't had enough money to spend unwisely, but still. And as bad as the Jeannot trade looks right now (I still have hope Jeannot can turn it around after a full camp under Cooper) I think JBB has a very strong trade record.

So
When you go into a full rebuild and need to draft do you want JBB doing it as the GM ?

I definitely don’t want JBB doing a rebuild draft is not his strength

 

[DFC]

So
When you go into a full rebuild and need to draft do you want JBB doing it as the GM ?

I definitely don’t want JBB doing a rebuild draft is not his strength

I think we are still a long way off from that, so it doesn't really matter in the here and now. JBB seems just fine at making sure we have the best chance to win every year.