Player Discussion Alain Vigneault: Part II

[Machinehead]

I don't think he's made a good systematic adjustment since like 2013.

There was this one time when he was 8...

His dog kept pissing on the couch. So instead of disciplining the dog, he healthy scratched the couch and then forced his mom to trade it to Arizona.

Dog never pissed on the couch again. That was his last successful adjustment.

 

[NYRFAN218]

What coaches are out there that are logical options?

I don't know any off the top of my head but I'm so done with this guy. I don't think I've ever soured on a coach for any team I've rooted for as much as I have AV.

 

[Edge]

Separately, if the players have honestly quit on (yet another) coach, then is giving them what they want (again) the right move? Renney got 5 seasons. Torts got 4. Now AV is only getting 3? I don't think letting the inmates run the asylum is the right approach, and only further enables the country club atmosphere many have alluded to.

This is the same conclusion I keep arriving at. My own disagreements with AV aside, I still just don't see a championship mentality on this squad.

I think there's a lot of talent. But I also just don't get a sense of urgency from this group. Frankly, I never have. I've said for years I felt they were a little too chummy. They seem a little too content with being good/very good, but not necessarily great. So long as they all get to hang out after the game.

 

[I Eat Crow]

I haven't been aboard the "Fire AV train" as long as many here, but I'm starting to come around. However, it still seems like a long shot to me. It's only his third season, after seasons 1 and 2 resulted in 2 of the most successful seasons in franchise history. As frustrating as his decision making has been, that isn't going to be lost on mgmt.

Separately, if the players have honestly quit on (yet another) coach, then is giving them what they want (again) the right move? Renney got 5 seasons. Torts got 4. Now AV is only getting 3? I don't think letting the inmates run the asylum is the right approach, and only further enables the country club atmosphere many have alluded to.

The thing is that the bolded won't be the case.

Gorton is going to place his stamp on the team this summer. Clean house. Bring in a new coaching team, ship out some dead weight on the roster. Bring back some sense of accountability into the room.

Losing Glass and Boyle in itself is addition by subtraction.

 

[GordonGecko]

he's worn out his welcome

 

[xsniper11x]

What coaches are out there that are logical options?

I don't know any off the top of my head but I'm so done with this guy. I don't think I've ever soured on a coach for any team I've rooted for as much as I have AV.

Mentioned this in another thread where someone claimed there's a lack of leadership in the locker room. Maybe losing Richards and MSL in short order caused that.

Either way, is the insistence of playing Glass, Girardi, Boyle occuring because there is a lack of effort on the part of the younger group? Say what you will about those guys, and there's plenty of negative, but they aren't lazy.

Tough to know what goes on behind the scenes, but lack of natural leadership emerging from the younger core could be a possibility.

 

[Dagoon44]

I told you so two -3 years you will hate the guy .. He needs to be fired over Boyle and Glass Alone
He is horrible

 

[SixGoalieSystem]

The thing is that the bolded won't be the case.

Gorton is going to place his stamp on the team this summer. Clean house. Bring in a new coaching team, ship out some dead weight on the roster. Bring back some sense of accountability into the room.

Losing Glass and Boyle in itself is addition by subtraction.

I don't see it.

Glass will still be around. So will Staal, Girardi and AV. Nash might be gone, but that's the only major change I think may be coming. If anyone on the blueline is traded, it's likely Klein.

 

[Desdichado93]

Hey AV there is the door, it was fun while it lasted by it's over now.


fire-plug, exit sign, door by db72, on Flickr

 

[Gordon Bombay]

This is the same conclusion I keep arriving at. My own disagreements with AV aside, I still just don't see a championship mentality on this squad.

I think there's a lot of talent. But I also just don't get a sense of urgency from this group. Frankly, I never have. I've said for years I felt they were a little too chummy. They seem a little too content with being good/very good, but not necessarily great. So long as they all get to hang out after the game.

I've always had the sense that this core had too many nice guys. You had to pull teeth to get them to play physical or stand up for teammates, it never really made sense to me.

That said, I do think there's more to this team then we're getting/got out of them this year. I felt that way with Torts and now with AV. It's the coach's job to put the team in a position to win, after the first month I think 75% of the fans knew we had problems yet AV just kept rolling along. Last night may be what sends him out the door, that was embarrassing.

 

[bl02]

Morning AV please play Boyle and yandle together again Saturday while double shifting tanner especially when we are down a goal or two. Will be a great way to start my weekend. Thank you.

 

[Maineice11]

Morning AV please play Boyle and yandle together again Saturday while double shifting tanner especially when we are down a goal or two. Will be a great way to start my weekend. Thank you.

I think I am done until AV is fired, I cannot take his awful decision making with personnel. And after last night, he embarrassed everyone in the organization. Absolute joke! I really hope he is gone this morning, I know it probably won't happen, but that's all you can do

 

[TheTakedown]

If they lose game 5 in PIT I think AV is basically fired. Putting up that kind of display on home ice is just absolutely embarrassing.

This core needs to be dismantled. Honestly, doing what teams like SJS, PHI (I know they're not very good, but let's look at how bad they were before this year), etc is what needs to be done. There's a lot of talent on this team but a) it isn't being put to use by the coach, and b) it isn't being complimented properly by the GM -- and by that I mean Sather, not Gorton... Not that Sather was terrible in his final years, but that one last offseason he had in 2015--letting AV run the show.... That's where the problem lies.

Still think that AV has a Chip Kelly complex. He literally believes he knows everything about everything, and its not that he's a terrible coach--in the right situations, he's the right coach for the job. In less than ideal situations, he's probably one of the worst -- I've never seen someone be so secluded from making in game changes.

Fire this guy, dismantle this core, and move on.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I told you so two -3 years you will hate the guy .. He needs to be fired over Boyle and Glass Alone
He is horrible

You mean like how the fanbase hates every coach that doesn't win a cup in 2 years? What would we do without your wisdom?

Anyway, I hate the players a lot more right now. What a gutless performance. At this point you might as well think about firing AV since it looks like this core quit on yet another coach. The Achilles heel of the arguments and incessant whining on this board is this team is not as talented as you think.

 

[haveandare]

I haven't been aboard the "Fire AV train" as long as many here, but I'm starting to come around. However, it still seems like a long shot to me. It's only his third season, after seasons 1 and 2 resulted in 2 of the most successful seasons in franchise history. As frustrating as his decision making has been, that isn't going to be lost on mgmt.

Separately, if the players have honestly quit on (yet another) coach, then is giving them what they want (again) the right move? Renney got 5 seasons. Torts got 4. Now AV is only getting 3? I don't think letting the inmates run the asylum is the right approach, and only further enables the country club atmosphere many have alluded to.

Imo the problem is way more that he makes horrible decisions that hinder the team night after night.

If they quit on him all of a sudden maybe it's patrol because his decisions reinforce a total lack of accountability and constantly make the difficult near impossible by hindering everything.

The coach sets the tone. His tone is oh well, we kinda tried and that's alright for the guys I arbitrarily decided that I like.

Coaches turning over after a couple years isn't necessarily weird and almost nobody is left from the renney days that you can say quitting on coaches is a consistent issue with.

 

[Maineice11]

Imo the problem is way more that he makes horrible decisions that hinder the team night after night.

If they quit on him all of a sudden maybe it's patrol because his decisions reinforce a total lack of accountability and constantly make the difficult near impossible by hindering everything.

The coach sets the tone. His tone is oh well, we kinda tried and that's alright for the guys I arbitrarily decided that I like.

Coaches turning over after a couple years isn't necessarily weird and almost nobody is left from the renney days that you can say quitting on coaches is a consistent issue with.

Very well worded!!! It is exactly how I feel too.

I think bringing in a no name coach, but someone familiar with the NYC lights would be great. However, there aren't that many that fit that description.

 

[Irishguy42]

Firing AV & rest of coaching staff (Arniel and Ulf need to go) isn't a good move unless you have the right replacements.

Who would the Rangers even want?

 

[mrmel329]

Firing AV & rest of coaching staff (Arniel and Ulf need to go) isn't a good move unless you have the right replacements.

Who would the Rangers even want?

Messier with assistants leetch and graves works for me. Plus, Mess wants the job.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Maybe, just MAYBEEEEE they just aren't good enough? Maybe the 7/8th best team in the east is getting exposed by the best team in the East?

Is that too difficult to admit? Is that why we keep claiming an entire roster of players with the most playoff experience in team history decides to not want it enough all of the sudden?

This team was average all year. I don't understand this massive shock that the best team in the conference is exposing them. They're flawed - it would have taken an elite coach to shape this team the way it's structured. AV is not that. Not close.

You can't make Girardi not slow. He can't "work harder" to get his youth back. But the coach can not deploy him for 25 mins against the top lines in the league.

AV consistently does everything that doesn't work. And when it doesn't work, he picks someone to blame (never the culprit) and deflects. It went on ALL SEASON.

 

[Rangers2319]

i know we are comparing 2 diff sports but look at soccer, if you are at a top club, you are expected to perform, if you dont you are canned, turnover rate is sometimes a year even more so, months if you cant maintain top level performance.

i think we are entering a different era here, you have to understand now that msg has shareholders to answer to vs in the past where they didnt. There is more pressure to perform now, tickets have skyrocketed for next year, one of the greatest percentage increases we have seen. It was about the dollar before but its even more so now due to being public

 

[rdhstlr23]

Who would we get? Had Julien been let go, then I would say, fire him.

I just don't see anything out there that's worth letting him go for.

Unless the Rangers plan on going full rebuild (which they can't because they don't have the assets to do so), then you have to let him ride this thing out until a coach with championship credentials becomes available.

I'm not happy with what he is doing either, but I also don't want to bring someone in here as a placeholder. Give him that 4th year, try and change out some parts and see if he can improve the club.

 

[haveandare]

Maybe, just MAYBEEEEE they just aren't good enough? Maybe the 7/8th best team in the east is getting exposed by the best team in the East?

Is that too difficult to admit? Is that why we keep claiming an entire roster of players with the most playoff experience in team history decides to not want it enough all of the sudden?

This team was average all year. I don't understand this massive shock that the best team in the conference is exposing them. They're flawed - it would have taken an elite coach to shape this team the way it's structured. AV is not that. Not close.

You can't make Girardi not slow. He can't "work harder" to get his youth back. But the coach can not deploy him for 25 mins against the top lines in the league.

AV consistently does everything that doesn't work. And when it doesn't work, he picks someone to blame (never the culprit) and deflects. It went on ALL SEASON.

Yeah they're maybe/probabaly not good enough to win it all this year, but this is about AV and your last paragraph is all that matters in regard to him and is the reason he needs to go.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Yeah they're maybe/probabaly not good enough to win it all this year, but this is about AV and your last paragraph is all that matters in regard to him and is the reason he needs to go.

Oh I agree. It can be both.

But what annoys me is, there's a whole ton of media/fans/etc who just chalk this all up to "not wanting it enough"

Which is a meaningless, non-quantifiable, blame deflecting answer.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

When I saw Fast in the top 6 and Yandle-Boyle scroll across the lines on MSG I think I experienced my first rage black out.

Only so many "duh" things you can take.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

That lineup last night was just...mystifying. I've defended AV for a long time based on his record of success, and the fact that he wasn't the GM making dumb moves like letting Stralman go to sign Boyle. And unlike many fans, I don't think him playing Tanner Glass consistently is that big of a deal. I'd certainly rather see him scratched, but I wasn't prepared to die on the "Fire AV" hill because he likes to play a 4th liner with weak Corsi (who actually has not been terrible during the playoffs or the stretch run of the regular season). It's just not that big of a deal to me - slightly irritating at worst.

That said, I'm now at the point where I wouldn't be opposed to a coaching change, because his lineup shuffling and management of the D corps has been horrific. I'll always wonder how this season would have went if he just played McDonagh-Klein, Yandle-McIlrath, and Staal-Boyle(Girardi)(Skjei) all year and in the playoffs. It would have made a big difference. Gorton making a deadline deal to address the PK would have also been nice.

But here's the thing: what is the likelihood that Gorton actually fires a coach who, on paper, has brought us to the Cup Finals and Game 7 of the ECF, plus a President's Trophy and two consecutive 100+pt seasons? And even if he wants to make that change, does President Sather allow it?